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FORUM / RUGBY /  Bok Team Vs All Blacks ( Moodie at 13

Bok Team Vs All Blacks ( Moodie at 13

Started by sharkbok89 REPLIES1,457 VIEWS· 21 Aug 2023, 12:09
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sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,225 posts
21 Aug 2023, 12:09
#1
21 Aug 2023, 12:09#1
Springbok team:

15 Damian Willemse, 14 Kurt-Lee Arendse, 13 Canan Moodie, 12 Andre Esterhuizen, 11 Makazole Mapimpi, 10 Manie Libbok, 9 Faf de Klerk, 8 Duane Vermeulen, 7 Pieter-Steph du Toit, 6 Siya Kolisi (captain), 5 Franco Mostert, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Frans Malherbe, 2 Malcolm Marx, 1 Steven Kitshoff

Substitutes: 16 Bongi Mbonambi, 17 Ox Nche, 18 Trevor Nyakane, 19 Jean Kleyn, 20 RG Snyman, 21 Marco van Staden, 22 Cobus Reinach, 23 Willie le Roux

sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,225 posts
21 Aug 2023, 12:12
#2
21 Aug 2023, 12:12#2

I am surprised to see Reinach on the bench. I would have rather given Grant Williams another test cap. 

Will be interesting to see how Moodie goes at 13. That could create a spot for Arendse on the wing. 

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
21 Aug 2023, 12:16
#3
21 Aug 2023, 12:16#3
Great to see Moodie being given a run at 13 Don’t get why Mostert is starting at 5 when RG is twice the player and was great against Wales Kwagga seems to have been ignored for a good few games now wonder if it’s a selection or injury thing?
DE
Deus Ex LemurPro2,355 posts
21 Aug 2023, 12:16
#4
21 Aug 2023, 12:16#4

The back row is a write-off. Poor halfbacks and vulnerability on the edge. The back three are there for the taking. 

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
21 Aug 2023, 12:17
#5
21 Aug 2023, 12:17#5
It’s a great great backline - so much attacking potential it’s scary
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
21 Aug 2023, 12:32
#6
21 Aug 2023, 12:32#6

4 locks and Du Toit who can p lay lock is an interesting call. Who covers number 8 - Mostert?

Cobus Reinach. Cobus needs to put in a big game. Personally I don't think he has been contributing enough and doesn't pose the threat on attack a player with his pace should.

Rassie is obviously testing players. Esterhuizen gets a great chance to shine. Moodie at 13 is going to be very interesting. Pace to burn in this backline. 

The back three are there for the taking opines Deus. Guess they have a glass jaw and soft underbelly hey Deus! 

Against the wee abs I would like to a have a fast, physical number 8.

Roos comes closest to this?


PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
21 Aug 2023, 12:41
#7
21 Aug 2023, 12:41#7
If DDA and Jessica are your first pick combo...why start them against a shitty Welsh side and then start AE and Moodie against the ABs????
XA
XaviPro1,924 posts
21 Aug 2023, 12:42
#8
21 Aug 2023, 12:42#8
?? ??  backline. Moodie will make meters and line breaks if he just runs lines off "The agent of chaos" AE. 
He will be tested defensively but if he can handle what the ABs throw at him well then he's na'er a care after.
RG played a full 80 this weekend so im not surprised to see him off the bench this week and Rassie and Jacques do like their combos. 
Same for Kriel and Duh Allende. They'll be starting against the Scots.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
21 Aug 2023, 12:43
#9
21 Aug 2023, 12:43#9
What the fuck is Mostert doing starting ahead of RG is the burning question
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
21 Aug 2023, 13:55
#10
21 Aug 2023, 13:55#10

Esterhozen and Moodie at 13 are inconvenient pressures being put on Harrassmiss…..so he dumps them in with little game time in one case and no game time in position in the other case…..against the ABs.

If they fail it was an experiment gone wrong….if they succeed it’s another Harrassmiss stroke of genius.

If this was a serious idea it would have been  tried against Wales. Instead we are stuck with Dead End Allende and the suddenly overhyped, but still ordinary, Kriel.

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
21 Aug 2023, 14:26
#11
21 Aug 2023, 14:26#11
Simple answer Moz - de Allende and to a lesser extent Kriel do not need to be tested so play them against the weaker Welsh Esterhuizen and Moodie need to be tested - no better test than NZ If they had played and done well against Wales it would have been because they faced a Welsh B side and little attention would have been paid If they do well against NZ they become serious considerations
PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
21 Aug 2023, 14:56
#12
21 Aug 2023, 14:56#12
That makes zero sense, Saffex. If one genuinely wanted to test AE/Moodie, who've never been paired previously, there is no way you do it against the best side in world. No. You let the two of them play against Wales and run out your premier combo of DDA and Kriel versus the ABs. I don't know about anyone else here but I always watch the games with family and friends...and every last fan I know has turned on DDA. Not a single person that I know still wants him to be there. In summary, I bloody hope AE and Moodie rip it up on Friday.
KI
kingcornPro3,695 posts
21 Aug 2023, 14:57
#13
21 Aug 2023, 14:57#13

I'm really curious to know who the starting 15 will be come the world cup. 

Wonder how Moodie will do at 13. 

Willemse back at 15 where he should settle into given he played there all season for the Stormers. 


SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
21 Aug 2023, 15:02
#14
21 Aug 2023, 15:02#14
Well Plum everyone I know rates de Allende highly as I do so I’m not sure what your point is It tells me your friends are as clueless as you are If de Allende is as shit as you make him out to be then how the fuck does he make 3 different world sides of 2022? Let’s ignore my take on him, how the fuck does he make those sides? Please explain this and don’t give me some lame excuse - give me a rugby reason why he made these 3 sides?
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
21 Aug 2023, 15:17
#15
21 Aug 2023, 15:17#15

Dud Toit’s interception and try are getting a lot of press. He was literally lifted over the line by Snyman. What’s missing in the discussion  is that he was over the line twice more and unable to force the try. And time and again against a pathetic Welsh team his ball carries amounted to nothing. We can’t continue with this upright, low power, no step runner ans our primary forward ball carrier.

MP
MpowerPro5,061 posts
21 Aug 2023, 15:23
#16
21 Aug 2023, 15:23#16
Very exiting backline but Agree that AE and Moodie is a bit new together to play the AB… the last time we played the all blacks our midfield was not good so maybe Rassie wants to surprise the AB throwing this combo at them…..I think Moodie might just be up for the challenge and I prefer AE at 12 in Anycase over DDA….why not throw AE 12 and DDA 13 at them? Can also be a potential Combo?
MP
MpowerPro5,061 posts
21 Aug 2023, 15:37
#17
21 Aug 2023, 15:37#17
Pieter had a reasonably good game…yes he was supported by RG over the line, but had 2 defenders on him…for most of the game I thought his defending was solid and did well in the loose + his incept was good judgement….he is getting better and like Mostert he has a big engine.
DE
Deus Ex LemurPro2,355 posts
21 Aug 2023, 15:38
#18
21 Aug 2023, 15:38#18

The centres aren't partnered as such, so it isn't a problem. Can Moodie fulfill his duties? He'll be working primarily with the outside backs and a forward, often Kolisi or Steph. He'll be tested in his decision making and his ability to stop with a range of tackles. There doesn't seem to be a respect for the challenges of the position. A weak 13 can ruin the entire team. I don't have a problem with Kriel, but will reserve judgement of both until after the game. This is Moodie's big chance. It's just a shame we have to suffer the useless Arendse, even more so the loose trio. At present that could be the weakest Bok loose trio I've ever seen. 

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
21 Aug 2023, 15:41
#19
21 Aug 2023, 15:41#19
PSDT had an outstanding game - the man has been in great form this season PSDT is back to his best
DE
Deus Ex LemurPro2,355 posts
21 Aug 2023, 15:44
#20
21 Aug 2023, 15:44#20

PTSD is a flatline. His very best, which was in a woeful 80 minutes by the Boks against a mediocre New Zealand, isn't anything to write home about. Having a ball thrown into one's arms isn't skillful. 

PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
21 Aug 2023, 15:59
#21
21 Aug 2023, 15:59#21
Saffex... On this board, I think DDA has 3 supporters left. Saffex, Beeno and Mike. Those are the only 3 people here, as far as I can tell, who still think DDA should be starting for the Boks. Here are the people that don't support DDA...if I'm wrong please let me know... Plum Moz Deus Korn Moon Mpower Draad Xavi Pakie SharkBok Rooi Blo Sader Moolah
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
21 Aug 2023, 16:26
#22
21 Aug 2023, 16:26#22
I think you will find that Rooi supports DA but that’s not the point and nor are you answering my question You would think I respect the rugby views of most of you on here??? Some like Doos are an absolute insult How did DA make 3 world sides last season if he is sooooo shit?
DE
Deus Ex LemurPro2,355 posts
21 Aug 2023, 16:35
#23
21 Aug 2023, 16:35#23

Because they are stupid. 

KI
kingcornPro3,695 posts
21 Aug 2023, 16:52
#24
21 Aug 2023, 16:52#24

Who will the all blacks pick is the big question. Will they continue to pick there best players? 

They have not rotated so drastically like SA and normally only make 5 changes from the team that played before. 


CR
CrusadersfanPro3,099 posts
21 Aug 2023, 16:53
#25
21 Aug 2023, 16:53#25

I am pretty sure I have never posted about DA ever, if I have can you point me to it.

I avoid commenting on players from other nations in general unless it's against us in a particular game simply because I don't see enough of their play throughout the year to form an opinion one way or the other.

If I watch a game as a neutral I might pass a comment or two on 1 or 2 players but only on their play in that game.



PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
21 Aug 2023, 17:04
#26
21 Aug 2023, 17:04#26
Saffex, you are asking me to comment on what I think other people think. It's your go-to move when defending DDA. All I can tell you is that, from my rough recollection of what people here have said in the past, you are in the minority in your support of DDA. Sader...would you pick DDA over Andre Esterhuizen?
PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
21 Aug 2023, 17:06
#27
21 Aug 2023, 17:06#27
Anyway, the "best 12 in the game" only managed to assist with 1 try against Wales in a match that was a try fest. And even that single assist needed a massive dollop of luck to turn into a try.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
21 Aug 2023, 17:17
#28
21 Aug 2023, 17:17#28
The other people are rugby pundits who make a living out of the game Do you fucking honestly think 3 different pundits are going to select a crap player as their 12? Honestly I only rely on these sources as they clearly make your name mud when it comes to DA. Understanding his role within the side is clearly beyond your rugby comprehension and I don’t mean that as a dig it’s just a fact If I was putting my case to a non rugby fan quoting 3 rugby pundits take on a player vs a few ignorant posters on a message board, who’s take do think is going to carry more weight? It’s like that fucking ignorant Doos telling us Lood is kak when Matfield makes the call that he is the best 5 in the game and this stupid prick expects us to take his view’s seriously Same applies to DA - I completely laugh at your takes and Esterhuizen against the AB’s on Friday will prove my point. He will play the same role DA always does
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
21 Aug 2023, 17:29
#29
21 Aug 2023, 17:29#29

Spot on Deus….the Rugby press who form public opinion (fans are even stupider) are a bunch of sheep repeating the same pablum. Does one ever read anything complex from these idiots, anything analytical….just a bunch of establishment hoo-ha.

PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
21 Aug 2023, 17:43
#30
21 Aug 2023, 17:43#30
Lol same old same old. As I said before, Saffex, you need to elaborate on why you think he is great. If we can't see why he is great then we're the idiots. Nobody should be to explain why such a great is so great...he's just great. If you can't recognise greatness then you're a fool because greatness is obvious and only fools struggle to see it. None of that holds any water. So go on, end this debate once and for all and explain to all of us mouth-breathers what makes him so great.
MP
MpowerPro5,061 posts
21 Aug 2023, 18:12
#31
21 Aug 2023, 18:12#31
The Rassie game plan fits DDA well and has made him look better than he actually is….why do you think Rassie is trying so many combos in the Midfield with Manie there? Because DDA does not enhance the attack minded game plan, rather the more Forward oriented game plan….just my opinion though: )
KI
kingcornPro3,695 posts
21 Aug 2023, 19:24
#32
21 Aug 2023, 19:24#32

I use to work in broadcasting and publishing, namely sky and then some folks at the Guardian and ITV. Most of these sport journos do a cut and paste job and just brush through the game. They like to built a player up and put a lot of hype around him. 

I do like this Youtube guy TAS, especially when he does the player tracking just to show you how players affect the game. 

Especially us arm chair coaches that think we know everything. We don't see the entire field or able to see what players are do off the ball, at scrum time, in the mauls, where are they in the defence. What lines are they running. 

So from a fan perspective, what I see of Damian, there is nothing of the highlight real to be honest, but then again, I don't see the full width of field. 

Where as Andre gets the ball going and into a lot of space, but I don't see him through out the game and where he is. So we just need to trust the coaches. 


DE
Deus Ex LemurPro2,355 posts
21 Aug 2023, 19:26
#33
21 Aug 2023, 19:26#33

We don't see the entire field or able to see what players are do off the ball, at scrum time, in the mauls, where are they in the defence. What lines are they running. 

Speak for yourself Korn


SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
21 Aug 2023, 23:26
#34
21 Aug 2023, 23:26#34
Oh what pathetic attempts at trying to discredit rugby pundits Fuck me you ignorant lot are so desperate that now even rugby pundits have no clue, it’s just copy and paste blah blah blah. Fuck me King are you starting to turn as stupid as this lot Let me guess Matfield also does not know what he is talking about - it’s all part of an agenda Plum this is why I rate de Allende so highly - his biggest strength is his strength. He literally imposes himself physically like no other centre does. He has the same explosive power as the likes of Marx and Bismark. He invariably always makes metres carrying in traffic setting up the next phase - it’s his primary job given space is at a premium in test rugby. Most of inside centre play takes place in traffic. There is a reason test 12’s are physical - de Allende, Kerevi, Aki, Tuilangi , Danty etc . DA is equipped to be creative when the opportunity presents itself as we have witnessed with some of his breaks Defensively his power is an asset with him often man handling opposition players The notion that test 12’s beat defenders by attacking space is a dream, lost in how the game was played decades ago. DA plays to a plan that involves imposing himself physically which he does better than any other 12. It’s exactly what we will see Esterhuizen doing against NZ on Friday evening As Will Greenwood said - you stop DA you stop the Boks This is what those 3 pundits see, not the ignorant blindness you lot are cursed with Fuck me, now even the pundits don’t know what they are talking about - but you clowns do
PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
22 Aug 2023, 00:13
#35
22 Aug 2023, 00:13#35
Saffex, nobody here disagrees with you in that what you describe is half of what a 12 is supposed to do. But you keep pretending that what you posted above is all a 12 is responsible for. I'm really not sure why you've bought into the idea that 12s are basically just supposed to be loose forwards playing with the backs for a bit. I also notice that you make ZERO mention of any other skills that would normally be considered mandatory for an international level backline player...distribution, speed, support? The guy has no pace. NONE. That's why he never runs good supporting lines. He simply can't keep up. He can never be relied upon to keep up with, or ever stay semi-near to any player that makes a break. It's actually laughable how slow he is. You'll notice how PSDT kept up with Kriel on Saturday in case he was needed to finish the try...a try that started at the other end of the field. The man is a lock for god sake!!!??? Talking about DDA's "distribution" is like talking about the Diesel engines that Tesla produce. I'd love to see anyone argue that he's even a test competent distributor. I don't think there is one person on this board that would argue that. So, you keep making your argument from the view that DDA is a muscle man in midfield and that's all that is required because apparently tests are just so tight. Now, again...if we simply want a guy that is large and can plod forward a couple of meters before being dragged down, so slowly mind that it'll always be behind the advantage line, then why on earth aren't we, and indeed the rest of he world, simply playing natural loose forwards at 12? Seriously? What is the dividing line? The dividing line is skill. You need hands and speed to be a good back line player. DDA has neither of those.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
22 Aug 2023, 09:49
#36
22 Aug 2023, 09:49#36
What utter rubbish he has good pace so much so that the Boks are happy to move him to 13 - you speak kak DA has it all, a good step, good hands, eye for a gap when it presents itself, handy enough boot. The guy is the complete package Schalk Brits interview says it all - DA is one of the most skilful players he has ever played with but people need to realise he is playing to a plan. And that’s what I get about DA, most of his work is physical it’s the Bok way but he has the skill set to beat defenders in space and create for those around him. Are the likes of Aki, Danty, Kerevi, Tuilagi ripping defences apart by attacking space - no they are not and that’s what you don’t get. You bang on about DA but can’t point me in the direction of a test 12 that does it your way whatever way that is
PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
22 Aug 2023, 11:30
#37
22 Aug 2023, 11:30#37
Dude...it's all talk and excuses. Let's just deal with the pace thing. Are you serious in that you think he had pace?
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
22 Aug 2023, 11:58
#38
22 Aug 2023, 11:58#38
Yes he definitely has pace - check out his tribute video and tell me he has no pace - what utter crap - there is no way in hell he is slower than Esterhuizen, Aki, Tuilagi etc He definitely has more than enough pace for a 12. Do you honestly think Rassie would shift a slow player to 13 when need be You just speak utter shit
DE
Deus Ex LemurPro2,355 posts
22 Aug 2023, 12:05
#39
22 Aug 2023, 12:05#39

Do you honestly think Rassie would shift a slow player to 13 when need be

Yes. I do. Just look what he did with the loose forwards, especially 6 and 7. We may as well be coached by a actual moose. 

sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,225 posts
22 Aug 2023, 12:09
#40
22 Aug 2023, 12:09#40

Delande is a utility player who could play loose forward or outside centre, but he is not a playmaker.
His kick which resulted in the Kreil try, should have been an early pass to his outside centre, or held on longer and drawn defenders. Delande some how managed to destroy the overlap.

This was an example of poor option-taking. Quick hands were all that was needed to allow Kriel to draw and pass to put the left wing away. 

The All Blacks or any quality side would easily have countered that kick, but it resulted in Kriel scoring against a Welsh B-team.

Delande is far too prone to getting involved in rucks or getting trapped at the bottom of rucks by constantly going to groun, instead of passing to a loose forward if he is not going to gain metres.

An inside centre should be organising the backline alongside the flyhalf. 

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