Bok Tour squad

The squad is:

Willem Alberts (The Sharks) 13 caps
Andries Bekker (DHL Western Province) 26 caps
Craig Burden (The Sharks) uncapped
Pat Cilliers (MTN Golden Lions) 2 caps
Marcell Coetzee (The Sharks) 5 caps
Juan de Jongh (DHL Western Province) 10 caps
Jean de Villiers (capt, DHL Western Province) 77 caps
Jannie du Plessis (The Sharks) 35 caps
Eben Etzebeth (DHL Western Province) 5 caps
Johan Goosen (Toyota FS Cheetahs) uncapped
Dean Greyling (Vodacom Blue Bulls) 2 caps
Bryan Habana (DHL Western Province) 79 caps
Francois Hougaard (Vodacom Blue Bulls) 20 caps
Zane Kirchner (Vodacom Blue Bulls) 17 caps
Juandré Kruger (Vodacom Blue Bulls) 3 caps
Pat Lambie (The Sharks) 13 caps
Tiaan Liebenberg (DHL Western Province) 1 cap
Francois Louw (Bath, England) 10 caps
Tendai Mtawarira (The Sharks) 37 caps
Lwazi Mvovo (The Sharks) 6 caps
Ruan Pienaar (Ulster, N-Ireland) 56 caps
Jacques Potgieter (Vodacom Blue Bulls) 3 caps
Frans Steyn (The Sharks) 51 caps
Morné Steyn (Vodacom Blue Bulls) 39 caps
Adriaan Strauss (Toyota FS Cheetahs) 14 caps
Flip van der Merwe (Vodacom Blue Bulls) 16 caps
Jano Vermaak (Vodacom Blue Bulls) uncapped
Duane Vermeulen (DHL Western Province) uncapped

Glad about Duane and Goosen. Hopefully Duane will start at 8.

Very interesting to see Francois Louw selected.

Is Duane ready - didnt look like it to me but maybe he is. Goosen - Only off the bench to get a taste etc.

I see he is not going for the very young players like Kitshof, Elstadt and Jordaan. Next year probably.

great to see a opensider picked...sanity has prevailed. the breakdowns wont be a complete joke. i am happy with the dynamic ot the squad. goosen will learn from the tour. its all about skills transfer from the more senior players.

kitshof and elstadt dont offer anything major different than the current crop in the squad so i can see them replacing the players that have been picked. kitshof scrums well and elstadt is just another battering ram. nothing more than what vermeulen and alberts can offer. jordaan on the other hand is something special. he is more dynamic than de jongh

we will have to wait and see how the starting 22 will look like. the group itself one cant complain at all.

 Not to convince about this squad, I have no idea why Flip Flop v der Merwe or Greyling is in the squad. I would rather choose Elstadt or Pieter Steph Du Toit, both players can play lock or 7 and are both enforcers. Greyling and Flip flop are just penalty machines. Time to weed out some of the bulls players that bring absolutely no value to the team

I think it is too soon for Goosen, he needs at least 4 games in the currie cup and it would have been great if he was included in the squad for the home leg. The same for Duane, he has only played 100 min of rugby in the last 4 months, not nearly enough.

I’m happy with Liebenberg and Strauss as our hookers, they are both good hookers. We just need to get the balance right of our back three and smarter play around the fringes,

No idea what Side Show is still doing their and how many chances must Hougaard and Morne Steyn get. Test rugby is not the place where you play yourself into form. At this stage I would even choose Jantjies over Steyn. Not to mention that Jantjies even made a match winning tackle against WP over the weekend. 

There are only three noticeable additions to the squad, namely Louw, Goosen and Vermeulen - and two noticeable ommissions - namely Engelbrecht and Daniel.

I do not think that the team will differ markedly from the one who played against Argentina - with the same stale game plan remaining.    The only change may involve the 7 and 8 positions - with Vermeulen being played at 8 and Louw at 7 - but that may also be wrong.   

The bench can be slightly different - with the need to replace Engelbrecht and Daniel.   Goosen may end up on the bench and the other change will be either Vermeulen of Louw - if they are not in the starting line-up.   Then Meyer may put Lambie, Pienaar and Goosen on the bench.

As already stated the line up will not result in a change to the game plan and as a result I hope Goosen is taken on a pleasure trip and not used at all - as was the case with Lambie in the Argentinian tests.   That would mean he will not be tainted by a disfunctional game plan. 

Kitshoff, Jordaan and Elstadt - Beeno - theyhave n chance in this case.   We have to have Potgieter and Greyling - none of the other three has the required credentials - they never played for the Blue Bulls remember.

fair point mike i am so sense almost making peace that those blonkers are in meyers plans so that is why i am not even mentioning it. for me goosen must just be there to carry the bags almost. he just needs to learn from this that is the only thing i want to see really

 Keegan Daniel is very unlucky...He is leagues above Jacques Potgieter. Very strange choice. Duane may not look ready but I reckon he will get himself up for it. He is that type of player that wont let himself be dominated. Could have used his attitude last weekend.

I say chuck Lambie and Goosen in at fullback and flyhalf and let them run. Keep the AB's guessing..Morne is too predictable. That way, we have so many options at first receiver in Goosen, Lambie and Fransie and all are ball players so it keeps defences guessing...

My team from what is selected:

15 Lambie

14 Hougaard

13 De Villiers

12 Steyn

11 Habana

10 Goosen

9 Pienaar

8 Vermuelen

7 Alberts

6 Louw

5 Bekker

4 Etzebeth

3 Du Plessis

2 Burden

1 Mtwararira

Coetzee has done well and will come off the bench but we need guys to disrupt the breakdowns a little and thats why I would play Burden and Louw. If Burden is not fronting up at scrum time, pull him straight away and throw Strauss on. Vermuelen, Etzebeth and Alberts to soften them up. Cant ignore Pienaar. He has been awesome for his club and deserves a chance and I have always felt Hougaard offers more from wing. Even maybe start Mvovo and bring Hougaard on at 9 later in the game. He is a live wire and can cause havoc around the fringes with tired legs. Not so effective as a starter. A bit like Aplon...Steyn will need to start getting that form and mojo back that made him "Frans Steyn!" He used to be feared by opposition and now he is being viewed as an overweight, weak link..

I have never been a big fan of Louw but what else have we got now...

i dont rate louw either but at least he plays to the ball and targets the breakdown.

i really like your team boklogic. nice balance in the lose trio and great looking backline. for me its more a fact if goosen can handle the pressure so early in his career. at 19 he can and he has shown it but goosen steyn combo at 10 and 12 can be lethal. with quick ball they can run the teams to the cleaners. we also have 3 goal kicking options. louw can shutdown the breakdowns and can feed our forwards and backline with ball. are in game tactics shoudl just reflect the players that we have and not use them roles that dotn suite them.

lambie might be more mature for 10. i still say lets have dig and see how it goes.

louw just to keep the bench warm for the majestic brussouw to return to the squad

My team from this squad:

15) Lambie 14) Hougaard 13) JDV 12) Frans 11) Habana 10) Goosen 9 ) Pienaar 8) Vermeulen 7) Alberts 6) Louw 5) Bekker 4) Etsebeth 3) Jannie 2) Strauss 1) Beast

16) Cilliers 17) Burden 18) Kruger 19) Coetzee 20) De Jongh 21) Steyn 22) Kirchner

Regarding Goosen nevermind his age he is good enough and will suprise a lot of people.

 @Boklogic- that is an excellant team, probably the best from the current squad. 

@clevermike- It seems that Donkey Potgieter has been kept in place instead of Daniels. I thought Daniels cameo in the last few minutes was his best effort so far for the boks. As for Donkey, I just hope he gets dropped from the match day squad.

One possibale change to the starting lineup is Coetzee for Alberts. Coetzee is an allrounder, whilst Alberts in a carrier only. 

I have never liked Flo Louw- he seems a specialist but poor specialist in the fetching department. When is brussouw back?

They going to break Duane Vermeulen and Goosen, those guys still need rest.

lets hope they are injury free. its always a big ask to pick a player after being injured but if the rehad has been doen then it just a matter of getting the rust off the player and just easing him into action again

i like the idea of having vermeulen and alberts in the same team. they are just effective when they have the ball add some offloading to there skillset there big bruising bodys can punch holes in defence and create direct space. hopefully they can be partnered by louw so that louws donkey work can free them up to just run at players all day long. much better balance. they need better body postions at the ruck they need to go lower and the entry point of the ruck.

i would also like them to send runners more away from the ruck area they attack way to close. where the likes of alberts and co is more effective is futher away from the 2 and 3/4 phase rucks. they tend to attack to close where the defence is muc more organised.

if goosen or lambie gets the nod the running depth should be better for teh backs then they just need to work on there support lines to run into space that should be created bu the forwards. goosen and lambie has way better passing depth and speed so that at least can allow them to attack a little wider and run themselves into space.

We can all dream - but the team will be as follows, based on the game plan of Meyer:-

15    Kirchner

14    Mvovo

13    De Villiers

12    Francois Steyn

11   Habana

10   Morne Steyn

  9   Hougaard

  8   Vermeulen

  7  Potgieter

  6  Coetzee

  5  Bekker

  4  Etzebeth

  3  Du Plessis

  2  Strauss

  1  Beast

The bench:-

 16   Liebenberg

 17  Cilliers

 18  Alberts

 19  Louw

  20  Pienaar

  21  Goosen

  22  Lambie

The only potential variation would be if there are injuries in training or I may be wrong about Flippie and Alberts being put on the bench instead of Louw.

There is NO WAY that Goosen will be selected as flyhalf - it would be against the Meyer "high kick and charge" game plan.   Same with Hougaard.  

Looks like Jantjies has been found wanting - so he is not in the squad anymore.   

Hope Goosen do not get any game time at all - he would not fit into Meyer;s game plan - and if there is a disaster - as expected - he will get the blame for it if he comes in from the bench.      The guy has a bright future - but his career can be destroyed by him being selected in that squad.

i agree mike the team enviroment and game plan should be of such nature that these players can be part of it.

if the same tactics are involved as in the pumas game then goosen will have a baptism of fire. collectively the forwards need to improve and the backs need to step up. i do feel with the likes of lambie and goosen steyn and JDV will get more quick ball into space and then the outiside backs will come into play

Meyer clearly has not learnt much, with the rentention of Cilliers and dropping the likes of Jantjies and JJ, when they had no game time really. Poor Daniel has been chopped when in fact he was solid and certainly better than Potgieter.

I am not sure but why does Morne Steyn never get injured? Is might be he rarely gets tackled or makes any tackles of significance?

Garethed I am also concerend re Goosen and Vermuelen. They are not ready from what we have seen.

Will that loose trio also be a bit slow. Leave Vermuelen on the bench against Oz and give him 30 minutes? Play Coetzee at 8? Also leave Goosen on the bench and give him 20 minutes or whatever.

Give Liebenberg  a good run as we will need him against the abs scrum.  His throwing to the two WP locks is also a factor. Folk blame Bekker for missing takes - I ask you who will beat Bekker if the ball is thrown in correctly. Wont happen often that I can assure you.

 Would be a mistake to start Vermuelen or Goosen - they both need to find form. Good to see HM moving towards grooming Goosen by getting him in the Bok setup - agree he needs to be carrying the bags this trip though

How Dumbo Potgieter gets the nod over Daniels is anybodys guess

You just have to look back in how Meyer and Potgieters relationship started. He recruited him in mid season from EP last year and this year he started for the bulls. That is remarkable considering that he is 26 and have been playing in a sub par league for many years. Meyer comes along and gets him to sign for the bulls. Less than a year he is a bok, I wonder if Meyer used this line with all the bulls players, it might also be the reason why we are stuck with so many useless bulls players.

 Meyer bats 50 per cent. Jantjies and JJ needed to go......but also Flip Flop and Potgieter. But I think with the addition of Louw and Vermeulen and Coetzee on the bench......we aren't such patsies. And get Mvovo out of there before he does some real damage.

Kingcorn

Jantjies in fact made two tackles that could be regarded as crucial - problem is both tackles followed disastrous play by himself and it was the only trying to cover up his poor play that necessaitated those tackles made from behind the attacking player.   He cannot tackle his granny from the front - that is his main problem in hving to defend attacks through the channell.     

I have looked at the squad and identified the players that should not be in the squad from an objeective point of view - depending on performances,   Those are the following:-

De Jongh. Greyling, Kirchner, Van der Merwe

Better alternative players are available nd I would rather have gone for Aplon, Jordaan, Kitshof and Bressler than those four.

 I have a real issue with a coach who drops players having done nothing wrong or had no game time. It's pathetic that JJ after a short stint off the bench has been dropped for the out of his depth de Jongh - pathetic selection. 

Same can be said of discarding Jantjies having not played a single game. Poor Daniel has been discarded having been played out of position at 8 and having made a good impact in the last test off the bench.

The poor selections in the squad are too many - Kirchner, de Jongh, Jean, Morne, Vermaak, Cilliers, Liebenberg and J Potgieter..................Meyer is fast losing the plot, this guy best catch a wake up soon or his record is going to be worse than Div's.......I am fast losing faith

Cant help but feel as though there has been pressure by SARU put on HM or there is a hint of panic?

Nonetheless, we wanted some variation to our team and hopefully gameplan and he has at least made an effort and start so we must be positive that a realisation of a defunct strategy is near its precipise for turnaround.

Whether Louw will provide the actual quality that we require is the critical factor at the breakdowns. Nevertheless, that he is a specialist fetcher does bode well when he has to confront MacCheat and PoCheat.

Duanne will be blowing after 30 minutes so I would gather he may be replaced in the 45th minute. Otherwise he may come on for impact around the 65 minute mark? I am caught between two trains of thoughts about young Goosen.

One says to me what the heck have we got to lose in throwing him into the hot cauldron and see where he actually stands? Afterall what worse can he be against what we currently have?

The second part of me says he may be scarred if the likes of Carter/Cooper carve him up and the hunters like MacCaw, Messam, Pocock, Higginbottom target the young Goosen and actually damage his confidence? Nonetheless, his age is young enough that he could recover pretty quickly?

I personally hope he gets game time but my concern is the fact that we are a bit desperate bringing back two players that are not fully conditioned and it would be sincerely unfair to expect anything other than to make up the numbers. Super15/Currie Cup  rugby is significantly lower in intensity and speed and skill to what is required at test level add in the pressure and all of a sudden the demands become challenging?

Hhhmmmmmm will watch with interest - Go the Boks!!!

IMO they should have just let goosen stay in the currie cup and let him work on getting his classy form back and then bring him on in theBoks fold on the EOYT. after another season of spXV, he will be more battle hardened and wiser come the next IRC.
if goosen is there only to be involved with the squad but not actually play, then why even pick him, when right now he just needs games under his belt of currie cup intensity, definately more then 50mins worth and to be possibly thrown into the deep end against a pack of dingos who will be tough to beat and are fudging desperate, or against possibly the most clinical All Blacks team of all time.

but all in all a pretty good squad. i like the inclusion of vermeulen, but wonder about his match fitness too. he looked good in the stormers loss to the lions though, but his currie cup performance to date is nothing like his spXV performance where he was the best No8 until his injury.

my Boks team,,,
1beats, 2 a strauss, 3 p cilliers, 4 e ezebeth, 5 a bekker, 6 f louwe, 7 m coetzee, 8 w alberts, 9 r pienaar, 10 p lambie, 11 b habana, 12 JDV, 13 j de jong, 14 f hougaard, 15 f steyn
16 t liebenburg, 17 j du plesiss, 18 j kruger, 19 d vermeulen, 20 j vermaak, 21 m steyn, 22 z krichner

Sasu

If the team mentioned by you is selected - I think it will not be - you can take a bet that New Zealand will beat them by 9+ points - if the one likely to b picked by Meyer takes the field - get better odds with a 18+ loss by the Springboks.   Meyer insists on a kick and charge strategy and I am sure the All Black back line players is good enough to deal with that by scoring 4+ tries.

Not very happy with the present scenario and I at present spend some time watching cricket rather than rugby.

@Kingcorn. You say that Flip is a penalty machine. Have you checked the penaty counts? He has given away one penalty for the Boks this year, and that was in the draw against Arg. None in the first test against Arg and none against Eng.

Well said windpomp these myths become fact if left unrefuted.

Its like Potgieter, apparently he had a shocking game. In fact he was not bad at all as Planet Rugby noted.

However once a player becomes a whipping boy he can do no right.  The setting in which Morne plays is ignored - even in the light of a comment by Mallet that Carter would fail in the Bok set up.

The problems re the Boks need to be looked at holistically. There is no one solution. Meyer has to analyse it all and pull the strings together. This will take him time to get right. But dont tell me Meyer knows nothing about attacking rugby! Pleeeeeease!

Beeno

In the first instance why do you keep on harping about the Meyer issue - listen and look at what Jake White, Mallett and Skintad said about him.   I think that White got shafted by Meyer - who in 2007-08 aspired to be come the coach - so to an extent his criticism may be a bit off the mark.

However, the game plan is under attack - but what is clear are the apparent problems with skillful play about which Meyer showed no signs of introducing a skills development program.   I cannot find the instances where Potgieter was good in the tests played by him - he may just have been average - nothing special.   Other than the penalty Van der Merwe did nothing whilst he was on.

I am hoping that Meyer would start getting to the p[oint and announce a skills development process and get rid of the incompetents like Louvscher in his support programme.   When a forward coach is the coach dealing with aattacking play - all a person can say is "blaas my siel".

I think Meyer has ay most this Championship to prove that h is correct.   If we end up on the bottom of the log or near it - and the Ens-of Year tour is also a mess - he would really be in hot water.   I wish him well - but he will have to start moving forward and not backward - and he would have to start players that can bring something to th game and forget about players like Kirchner, Greyling and Flip Flop as the people he fell back on when under pressure.

clevermike your wasting you time and breath buddy beeno aka sand monkey is a thick as they come.

i can bash on it all day long but the status quo remains the same.

we are the only country in the world that has a forward as a attacking coach. wow that just warms the hart right there. he must be the one giving the pionters to the backline by the way they play. they all are so poorly alligned they are running as flanks.

i agree on the fact that meyer has a lot to prove but i bet you 50 bucks even if there is some improvement (which i think there will be seeing that the balance of the players in the squad is way better) then we wont see a game plan and planning that will enable us long term sucess

time will tell how things pan out

flip is a penmalty machine but isnt in fact. Flip made no impact -how long was he on for but daniel did in the few second he wa on for - really! - and it was a shame he was dropped! hahahahahahhaha

No oaks daniel is not a test loosie and has failed in every test thus far and Meyer knows that. JJ is a fine young player and will be back.  I rate him more highly than Mvovo.

Greyling will go when Coenie come back. Greyling - well who is much better right now. That Lions loosehead is a possibility - but not Kitshoff- too young.

I will not be surprised if Lambie doesnt play against Oz. Taute will no doubt crack the squad when he regains fitness.

Just watch this squad get stronger and stronger. Watch how the gameplan evolves and learn about what is called a process. 

Meyer has done it before so why cant he do it again. He devised a workable strategy once so why cant he do it again. Why this trashing of Meyer? why os the big question. Premature judgements writting him off are not reasonably.

Discuss the deficiecies by all means - as I do myself - but this is not the time to b etrashing the coach like the herders are doing.

Go Meyer and the Boks!

My new avatar is Jake trying hard to look like a superior CA type like Beeno!! Hahhahahahaha

carpetmuncher

If the present game plan (or lack therof) remains  and even if they bring in new and better players further down the line - I am worried about both the short and longer term prospects.   I think th future looks bleak

Beeno - you are living in cloud cuckoo land - start looking at what is happening in front of your eyes and stop being a frightened ostrich.

i wouldnt say the Boks lacked a plan, but what they had nothing of was a plan B, or any intiative to try something different from the players there so far, thats where the value in experience comes handy, but between JDV, habana, m steyn, f steyn and even pienaar when he came on, they should have been able to recognise between themselves that something else needed to be done, instead of the same ol i am an automaton following my prime directive and incapable of thinking for myself.

i also like greyling, but he has many faults which could be detrimental to the Boks, especially in tight games. i love his garession, but not the lack of smarts and discipline in how to efficently apply it.

i reckon kitshoff is ready now and meyer should of included him into the team, even if he dosent play him, he can get submersed with the culture whioch would do him a world of good. IMO kitshoff is going to be a frontrow rugby superstar.
 

Mike on the contrary, all I am hearing is unstable gabblings about doom and gloom by severeky traumatised posters.

I remain confident and optimistic regarding our longer term prospects and perhaps a few good wins in the nearer term. 

Spot the difference.

i have to admit, no one comes close to being optimistic about the Boks chances like ben10.
it reminds me of that scene in the power of one when morgan freeman tells the adolescent pete false hope is beter then no hope, lol.

obviously Boks are still a good team, but they do have plenty to work on (ignore the understatement), lol. :)
 

 When's JP back? We need him quite badly, Mvovo isn't cutting it and I know Hougaard could Play at Wing but HM is using him primarily as a scrummie. 

Relax Shez, De Jongh is in the squad to either play Hougie at 14 or Fransie at 15.

is there any reason why hougaard cant play left wing??? as a halfback he should be able to catch and pass from either side and ive seen him step of both feet when attacking, so im just wondering if the majority keep bouncing him to the right in order to play habana on the left where he seems more effective??? o_O