The abs travel to Argentina with their confidence a bit battered by the pounding they took from the Boks and the knowledge they were incredibly lucky to win against a team that has drawn with an Argies team in Argentina.
How many points is a home game worth to the passionate Argies. Lets remember the Argies were competitive for a long period of the time in nz. They have had time to regroup and are lieing wait for a nervous abs team.
This might be closer than some nz fans would like or think?
Anybody can beat anybody on any given day. That's why you play the games.......but unfortunately I think Argentina will come up short in the last 20 minutes.
Can we win? Yes.
BUT -- Los Pumas will have to fulfill certain requirements and effect some changes to their gameplan.
1) Defence:
a) They must defend like they did in Wellington. Low tackles, double tackles, triple tackles, etc. The backs must keep their heads cool and show the ABs "the fool's gold" out wide. However, I expect Hansen to try new moves to overcome our defensive system. I expect Dagg to act as a second fly-half in several phases. Los Pumas need to harass Aaron Smith -- so far he hasn't responded well when he's under severe pressure.
b) Gainline: Graham Henry and Hansen worked hard to get the ABs to break the advantage line off first phase. In the line-outs, they usually send their main ball carrier among the backs (SBW, and now Nonu) at high speed, accompanied by a wing on his blind shoulder (to receive a quick pass before contact, or an offload), and a loose forward to support Nonu and clean out the ruck immediately. In the 2nd phase Aaron Smith throws a flat pass to Conrad Smith, who runs in an inverse angle to draw defenders into midfield. From there he either takes the ball into contact, or pivots with a ball carrier. It's usually in the 3rd phase that the fly-half gets the ball, with momentum on their side and often with numerical advantage. Los Pumas also need to be aware of the "dummy pods" the ABs use off second phase ball (quite often it's Kieran Read who operates in that area).
c) Slowing down the ball: It is CRITICAL to manage the tempo of the game. Los Pumas tried a few new defensive drills this week -- mostly focused on this item.
2) Set-pieces: Los Pumas MUST be able to hold their own in the set-piece. Period. They need quality line-out ball, and variation. A good maul.
3) Attack & ball retention:
a) Vergallo is an awesome defender, good tactical kicker and forwards general, but his service is not as crisp as that of Martín Landajo, who is a very dynamic scrum-half. I'd say the latter shares a lot of traits with Tawera Kerr-Barlow. Los Pumas need to trust in their attacking patterns. Run hard into space. Quite often Fernandez starts running and then slows down as he approaches the defensive line, rendering all momentum sterile. Use Leonardi in the second half as striker runner. This week they performed a couple moves with him as main ball carrier -- they looked quite similar to the ones Gatland put together to throw Toby Faletau into space during the WC.
b) Attack the rucks. This is a phrase Graham Henry repeats over and over. Ruck the players out of the ball while staying on your feet and without using your upper body. This is a technical concept Henry is trying to implement here. Sealing off the ball won't provide a good attacking platform. Forget about the ball - play to the men trying to steal / slow down the ball. Los Pumas were successful in this regard for some periods of their games (the try against the Boks being a prime example of quick ruck ball).
If they smooth out the technical & tactical inconsistencies explained above, and remain focused for the entire 80 minutes, they can win.
I have written repeatedly that there are some deficiencies in the All Black team that they seem to ignore all the time. They are beatable - my advice is to ensure that the Pumas must refrain from handing possession over to them and keep the game fairly tight. That often lead to penalties against McCaw and Read - which could be converted to points. They do try and run the ball - but they do make handling errors.
The performance this year of the All Blacks were varied. They won some hames that they could easily have lost.
My contention is that the Pumas can beat them ands I hope they do.
I must say JCruzPC seems to know what he is talking about and good on him!
Aristocrat was also very interesting to listen to but alas he seems to have disappeared or currently blogging under another name and speaking the same language as Beeno (alot of hot air but sadly no substance :-)), don't take it the wrong way Beeno with you being so sensitive and all)
Go Argentina!!!!
RE subject of this thread.... nothing would give me greater satifaction than stirring kiwis beaten by Argies but even if Argies get ahead I dont think they have mental game yet to consolidate and beat cheating rigged RWC champs of last year. Point being they had SA and AUS on the ropes and let them both back in.... experience and time will see them learn how to close out the close games. BTW I hope their fwd pack dominate the cheats.
mmmmm I don't know redsman, seems like the Argies are dress rehearsing for a Wobblies scalp!
I'd be more worried about the Boks this sunday if I were you! ;-))
Thickos like bean Brain and Retardcat must be on there knees prayng 4 a Pumas win. I mean, how stupid r these idiots going 2 look after all there dissing the ABs if the ABs make it a clean sweep this year?
LMAO!!!!!!!!
Jallopy, I am quietly confident the wheel is in turn and its turning the way of the Boks. Wins this year at home against Oz and the abs will be great but would be earlier than I had expected. Everything is going well and I am sure success is around the corner. We lift off in 2013 and rise to the top in 2014.
Beeno - outlining the most likely scenario of rugby's future.
Hakwa I am sure the wobblies are most concerned- perhaps more so than even nz - they have a week longer respite!! Hahahahahahahaha
Thats the problem Bean Brain, ur not quietly confident. U run ur mouth off & embaress other Saffas with yr ignrnce & big talk. If u were more quiet about it u wdnt sound like such a stupid moron.
The Boks have gr8 young talent every year. Nothing new here and if you disagree then u must never watch varsity cup or Craven week. Doesnt mean we will be worlds best in the future cuz NZ have just as much young talent or even more cuz they won 4 out of 5 junior RWCs!
any team can beat anyone, but if the All Blacks do lose or even draw, i would be absloutely gutted, those are the worst results possible.
losing to the pumas would be like losing to scotland or samoa, it would physically make me sick. :(
as it is im not even a little bit worried, IMO its not a matter of who will win, its a matter of how much All Blacks win by.
im expecting the All Blacks to get their 4 try bonus point win this week, but i do expect the pumas to make us work for it, before we shut up shop and cash in on our superior fitness like we did against the pumas and Boks.
All Blacks by 30.
GO ALL BLACKS!!!
Jallopy if I am such a bird brain how come I check mate you like the grand master I am!! Bwahahahhahaha
saSUE abs by 30? Noted.
I wd never call you a bird brain. My mom has a african grey parrot that is a lot smarter then u, Bean Brain! And I mean A LOT!!!!
LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@Cruz,
I agree that the Pumas will need requirements fulfilled to beat the AB's but I am unsure if those requirements are yet integrated into this squad. The Argies have always been known as hard, big and passionate and similair in forward play like the Boks.
Defence is not a problem and I must say this I get the feeling that Graham Henrys influence on the Argies is apparent but that is no way disrespectful to the current coaching regiem. Henrys knowledge of the AB's is immense and you cannot take that knowledge away.
Nonetheless, it may also counter the Argies game as Hansen will in no doubt up the ante in other areas that Henry may not have them concentrating on. This is probably why we have seen an indifferent AB team this year as they are trying too move away from what the Graham Henry inspired team was and for Hansen and co to develop this team further?
'Fools gold' but not fooled twice if you ask me! The AB's are and have always been a team that can adapt to change better than any other side and I doubt that they will chase fools gold again. Dan Carter will add a threat that wasn't there before and his presence will mean that the Argies will be facing a different strategy this time around. This is why the AB's differ to the Boks and Wallabies to a lesser extent. They dont get stuck with throwing the same old same old when it failed the week before.
The backline will only function at 100% if they are given good clean and fast ball from their forwards. Sadly for Argentina the AB's would porobably do enough damage with about 50% ball. So slowing down the rucks and mauls will fustrate the AB's but it wont win the game and rugby is not about looking good coming second - SA found that out in our last outing!
The one thing that this AB team appears to be doing well is their performance at the set piece. They have also scored 4 tries from the set piece play against zilch by everyone else so they have added another bow insted of being the champs at broken play scoring.
Attack is an area that the Argies are struggling with and will continiue to do so against the top 3 nations but that is not me saying you cant that is me saying that your attack is not as credible or has the ability like your defence. The game against the Boks and AB's at home outline this clearly to me. There is just not enough x factor players or skills to set alight or smash open holes against the big boys.
touching on some of radtads posts, i also agree that hansen is moving away from some of henrys methods and the set piece is a prime example of this as hansen stated at his press conference this was one area where henry and co always wanted to improve, something he worked hard with the foster at doing.
the All Blacks best weapon has been there defence, making their one on ones, gang tackles, scrambling defence and organisation from the team has been of the highest calibre and the pumas best chance to score will be through the forwards the way roncero scored their only points in wellington.
IMHO, the weather when the pumas and All Blacks last met was the best ally that the pumas had and this time round, le platas conditions will suit the ABs more and why not only am i not worried, im expecting a big 4 try bonus point victory.
GO ALL BLACKS!!!
ragtad I am concerned that all these constant genuflections subserviently aimed at the abs and fans will be causing irreprable damge to your overworked knees!
Please note ragtad the Boks were iat least 20 points better than the abs - at home nogal.
End of Story.
saSUE said elsewhere he is expecting a 30 point win against Argies. Noted.
Oh thankyou beens I will take that as a compliment as I gather that I again hit very raw nerve with you! We need not live in worlds of dreams when reality points the other direction my beloved brother.
A wise man once said that "it is best that you say nothing rather than open your mouth and confirm to the world that you are a fool"
NOTE: It doesnt matter if we were 1000 points better at home it matters that we need only beat them by 1 point - you just dont get it do you beens - END OF STORY
probably not!
Guess not bean brain. Another 'lucky' win I suppose..moron.
@ben10,
hope u noted that 30point victory, cos i noted ur notations, LMAO,,,,,guess it wasnt 30 points though, but i think theres only a smile on my face with this result, :P
after this warm up, its now time for the main event in soccer city,,,pheeeeew, exciting times, :o)
Wonder if Australia will beat Argentina. Not much left of their team after all the injuries, especially the new ones today.
Boy I bet bean Brain is wishing this thred wd vanish in a puff of smoke!!!
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahhahahahaha!
not surprisngly some ab chest beaters are taking some much needed solace from their win over a hapless pumas side who played with little passion, made a huge number of unenforced errors and whose defence was very very poor. A big step down from previous performance. The abs themselves were allowed to stroll through this porous defence and the last try by carol jane where the argie tackler showed no commitment at all summed up a very poor and disappointing display againt this average ab side.
Nope ab fans and cohorts nothing to shout home about. Of course if the Pumas dont pitch you could win by 30!!!!!! I worked on the basis they would pitch up - a reasonable assumption. No oaks dont read to much into this match - the Pumas were very, very poor.
Beeno bringing much needed perspective to abs and ab genuflectors! Bhahahahahahaha
not surprisngly some ab chest beaters are taking some much needed solace from their win over a hapless pumas side who played with little passion, made a huge number of unenforced errors and whose defence was very very poor. A big step down from previous performance. The abs themselves were allowed to stroll through this porous defence and the last try by carol jane where the argie tackler showed no commitment at all summed up a very poor and disappointing display againt this average ab side.
Nope ab fans and cohorts nothing to shout home about. Of course if the Pumas dont pitch you could win by 30!!!!!! I worked on the basis they would pitch up - a reasonable assumption. No oaks dont read to much into this match - the Pumas were very, very poor.
Beeno bringing much needed perspective to abs and ab genuflectors! Bhahahahahahaha
please pay attention to brother beenos words of wisdom my kiwi bros, if we were to all beat our chests because the All Blacks won against an inferior opponent, then we would quite literally be dead, as the IRB have the All Blacks No1 amd everyone else below us, so lets just be humble and thankful and pick the appropriate time to beat our chests.
yes i know, the RWC, spXV, blesdisloe cup, freedom plate and now the IRC championship is giving our trophy cabinet franocis steyn like wegiht prblems, but thats nothing special anymore is it, IMO thats just the norm, :P
@ben10,
i apologise for the pumas not performing??? i will gladly support any petition u wish to draw up stating that it was NZs fault the pumas didnt play very well.
LMFAO, :D!!!!!
