Captain?

The Boks seem to be in a transitional phase with the captain's role at the moment.

Siya is still the guy, but then Eben and Kriel have been used as well. Kriel is not an option. I don't know why anybody would ever make him captain. Perhaps it's a sign of the slim pickings on offer.

Will Siya make it to the next WC? He could, but I'm doubtful.

So who is the guy? Who is the long term captain. I suppose there are some criteria which have to be met. He has to be the clear best in his position, young enough, and hopefully able to play close to 80 minutes. Of course, he also needs to be captain material.

When you look at it like that, one isn't really left with too many guys.

Injuries and frailty aside, names like Sacha and Hanekom come to mind. Of those two, Hanekom probably has the most captain-like aura. Uber creative players like Sacha always seem a little too far out on the spectrum to be concerned with captaincy - would one wanna rein them in if it may dilute their creative confidence?

Willemse? Still young enough that he could play in two more World Cups...crazy!!! I like him for captain. There isn't another guy that is his age with that much experience under pressure. He looks like a solid character and I've always regarded him as a master of balancing attack and respect for possession of the ball. Does that instinctive understanding of balance translate into the same understanding of the balance and responsibility required for captaincy? I feel like it could.

Jan-Hendrick Wessels? He's 24 and he looks very good. Had average performances to start his Bok career but he plays the right position for skipper and is only 24. Very much a baller and an attack orientated guy who wants to do far more than just scrum. He looks like he's somewhere between Strauss and Smit in his approach to the game.

And then...I'm scraping the barrel here, mainly because age is such a high factor when talking about a long term captain and so many of our guys are close to 30.

Nortje? He's not currently my first pick in his position. I don't think he's anybody's. That's just not possible with RG there. But, he's 27 and hasn't looked out of place at the highest level. Still not totally sold on him but he does captain the Bulls very well and has that warrior spirit that players seem to want to rally around.

And those are about all the names I can think of.

Of course, if we're only looking at the 2027 World Cup, one could add a few names.

...I just feel like it's worth remembering that the truly great teams, in rugby and other sports, have a long term captain whose name is synonymous with that side. If I say names like Waugh, McCaw, Casillas...you instantly have memories of the dominance of their sides flooding your mind. Siya's name is probably close to that category at this point. The difference being that Boks, unlike the other teams above, despite winning when it mattered, never quite reached that aura of invincibility.

If the Boks are looking at an era of dominance, as seemingly predicted on every podcast, we need a long term skipper.

My pick, right now, is probably Willemse. His experience/youth ratio is probably the best on offer.

Probably until the 2027 RWC the much hated by Mozart - Du Toit, In the longer term the choice would be either Sacha or Willemse.

Of all the youngsters Sacha has the history of being a leader through his formative years and it needs to be a player who is a dead cert to start

Forget Nortje hopefully he does not turn out to be another Mostert selection - fuck I can’t endure another powder puff even though he is a far better version

Great Springbok captain names:

Fairy Heatlie 1896

Uncle Dobbin 1913

Boy Morkel 1921

Basie Vivier 1956

Salty du Rand 1956

Divan Serfontein 1984

Schalk Burger 2015

Siya Kolisi 2018

Bongi Mbonambi 2023

Salmaan Moerat 2024

I’m thinking the likely captain is Salmaan Moerat. The Bok captain with the best name is a tie between Bongi Mbonambi and Fairy Heatlie. Perhaps Bongi the only one with first and second names which rhyme,

Eben has been the true leader for years. Siya is a black face, little boy lost, to keep the politicos happy.

Fuck off Doos trust you to see no value in Kolisi both as captain and player - idiot

Kolisi's test career doesn't equate to half the value of half of Louw's career as a substitute. Let that sink in. No leadership and little talent. There's nothing at all to gush over.

Louw was bog fucking ordinary but as usual trust you to rate all the average players

Kolisi with his hands tied behind his back was better than Louw

Fuck he was ordinary

I wouldn't wanna burden Sacha the captaincy.

One might pile more on him than is necessary. Have listened to him in a few interviews and in the Behind The Ruck podcast and he seems super level headed. But he is still a baby. Not a chance he should become captain now. Perhaps after the 27 WC.

Eben is a good choice. The only thing I have against him as captain is that need the wild man, not the reined in version. When he captains he's generally little more chilled and leaves the crazy eyes at home. Plus, he's only got a year or two left in him. Sad, but it's the reality of pappa time.

For me, Marx should have been the captain since about 6 years ago. Unfortunately, that ship has sailed now.

The fact that Jessie has been the captain a few times now is hilarious to me. Yes, he played a monster WC 1/4 final...but other than that I've always though that he has coasted on his "athlete" credentials.

For now, in my book, it's Willemse.

...but let's not forget about Hanekom. As amazing as Sacha is, Hanekom is right there on the same level with him and he may just be our McCaw.

...and let's also not forget Kaptein. I literally almost shed a tear when he got injured earlier this year. I seriously hope he gets back to 100% because that guy is a born leader and a fantastic player.

The Bokke can't afford a permanent white captain and unfortunately Willemse might be too light as well...and with his white father, Sasha too...it sucks, but that's what our country has become.

I still think we need to start a petition to get our international sides expelled from competing until the racial quotas thing is abolished.

No normal sport in an abnormal society?...how things have changed...but not improved...

It will ALWAYs benefit a failed leadership to aim for equality of outcome over equal opportunity.

And we know the ANC are a failed sack of ____ .

Filth...feet of clay. They are what they have always been, they just fool less people these days...unfortunately still too many...and there is no viable alternative. South Africa is lost.

Numbers always dominate and the only answer to that is money. Make it lucrative enough for the leaders and an area can be kept pristine. But that opportunity might not be Cape Town, with the vast influx those numbers are probably impossible to trump.

Kolisi is a friendly bloke, oddly he reminds me of Bluto from the Popeye comics, especially when he sings. Lucky ball never suited his strengths as a player and as a captain he left most WC knockout games with the Boks trailing. What does that say about Dr Lucky’s verdict on his captaincy.

Keeping it real.

Kolisi leaving after 60 min has stuff all to do with leadership and everything to do with tactics

Kwagga for Kolisi is tactical

None of us really know how good a captain is as we are not privy to the circle they lead.

So we can only judge them on how they come across in interviews and the effect they have on others

Siya wins hands down in this department - the likes of Smit and Pienaar are a very distant second

Great player and comes across as a great and natural leader of men

Point out one act of great and natural leadership

Literally everytime he is interviewed

On the field….

Impossible to tell we are not on the field and that applies to every captain

But if he comes across so well as a leader off the field why would that not apply on the field?

Not entirely true…,when the Boks were being run ragged by Fiji in the WC 2007 QF, Smit took charge. We stopped trying to emulate the most dangerous backline in the world and won going away.

Have you seen Kolisi ever go to a player who has screwed up and encourage him, or get angry about something. Or even lead the discussions between the leaders, Vermeulen clearly did that.

Hell when Lucky was complaining about the ref in the Lions tour one of his complaints was Kolisi being disrespected. What real leader is ignored….he simply couldn’t communicate.

The fact that he and Eben are best friends is significant...

What are you saying?

Oh what rubbish I’ve seen Kolisi leading discussions all the time or talking to the ref when need be, it’s not good leadership getting angry

It’s just so obvious that he is a natural leader, his communication is articulate and considerate whenever he is interviewed. He comes across so well. He is admired, respected and has a massive presence

Why on earth would that not apply on the field. He is surrounded by experienced leaders - the days of shouting the odds or having to gee the team up are long gone - you don’t see the likes of Ardie, Scott Barrett, Itoje, Farrell, Doris, du Pont or Tuipolotu doing it

Its just so obvious that Siya is a great leader

You can’t see it, you can’t give an example but it’s just so obvious….there’s one born every day.

How the fuck am I meant to provide an example of leadership on the field - am I fucking part of the team - geez how stupid

You provide me with material evidence of leadership by any rugby captain in the game and that would need to be numerous examples as one example is hardly defining of a whole career

Well I did Smit’s changing our strategy against Fiji. Has there ever been one Bok who has said anything about Kolisi’s on field decision making for 7 years now.

How the hell do you know what Smit said on the field and even if you did know which you don’t - that’s one example - hardly career defining now is it?

We know nothing about what is said on the field - we are not there

My judgement on Kolisi as a leader is based on the evidence of what he publicly says, how he comes across, how he carries himself and how he is received

It’s all top of the tree - your take is just typical negativity which defines you as a supporter

I don’t give a toss about what he says publicly. It’s just pablum….I want to see some evidence he is engaged on the field, is helping his teammates make better decisions, I see none.

What a load of crap one would swear you see that happening in any game of rugby by any leader - we are not privy to leadership on the field

Its laughable that you think we are - is there evidence of Ardie, Farrell, Doris etc helping their team mates make better decisions???

Give me a break - you are delusional

By defining in their own play the game plan and encouraging players to stick to it even if it isn’t succeeding. And occasionally, like Smit against Fiji, scrapping the plan and making changes.

By encouraging players who need encouragement and ripping players who aren’t doing their job.

By remaining calm when it’s the best attitude and getting angry when it isn’t.

By making smart decisions about penalties and goal kicks. By knowing when to be conservative and when the team needs to take more risks.

…..

‘Kolisi can’t do any of that,

What a load of utter horse shit

Provide evidence of other captains doing all that

Provide evidence of Smit changing the tactics - it’s utter rubbish

From the Guardian:

John told the players that he could see in their eyes what he had seen in those of the Australia and New Zealand players at the same stage in their games the previous day," said South Africa's coach, Jake White. "He told them to snap out of it and it was a magnificent example of leadership under the most intense pressure.

That’s hearsay not direct evidence

I’m damn sure I could Google an example of someone praising Siya’s leadership

Yes — John Smit, as Springbok captain, played a key tactical role in shifting South Africa’s approach in their 2007 Rugby World Cup quarter-final against Fiji.

The Context

1. South Africa led comfortably early, but Fiji stormed back in the second half, scoring twice in quick succession to level the match at 20–20 with about 20 minutes left.
2. At that point the game threatened to slip away from the Springboks, who had been trying to play expansively and match Fiji in broken play.

The Tactical Change

1. Smit, in consultation with coach Jake White and his senior forwards, called for a return to a tighter, forward-dominated game.
2. Instead of continuing with width and counterattack, the Boks shifted to direct, structured play through the pack: scrums, lineouts, and driving mauls.
3. They emphasized territory via kicking and used their physical advantage up front to sap Fiji’s energy.

Outcome

1. The change paid off: South Africa’s forwards re-established dominance, grinding Fiji down.
2. The Boks scored two late tries through their pack (notably from Juan Smith and Butch James finishing off structured phases) to win 37–20.
3. After the match, Smit and White both acknowledged that the leadership group had to “take control” when Fiji’s comeback momentum was peaking.

Apologize when convenient

Direct quotes from the head coach aren’t hearsay. Do the honorable thing for once and just admit you were wrong.

Bullshit it’s hearsay but more to the obvious point it’s one bloody example. One example of leadership does not define a players entire career as a leader now does it?

And I’m not questioning Smits leadership, I know he came across as a good leader just like Pienaar did and equally Kolisi

It’s not hearsay ….the change was obvious to those of us who were watching, except the noobs…..and confirmed by Jake and ChatGPT

It’s one example it’s not defining