13 - Conrad Smith (Hurricanes):
The All Black stalwart again showed his class ... a cut above the rest.
Bubbling under: Juan de Jongh (Stormers)
It seems the experts at 365 have a good grasp.
Mozart
I do think De Jongh played well on Saturday - but it was the first game in Super 16 that he showed anything on attack - his defence was and rteamin solid. However, one swallow does not make the summer - and he certainly is in my book NOT Springbok material.
Perhaps it was the first game where he had a bit of space. With space he is a clinical finisher. Against tight defences he isn't one of your battering and offload runners like Steyn.....but a team needs a mix and having an elusive 13 outside a strong 12 is sound. As for him not being a Bok, unlike Wynand Olivier, he has already played good tests.
And unlike JJ, who you apparently like.....he can tackle. Engelbrech is a big guy with pace and a step. But in modern centre play, if you can't tackle every time....you will lose matches. Watch out on Saturday.
And here is Planet Rugby's assessment:
12 Juan de Jongh (Stormers) - So many options in the number thirteen jersey meant we had to find a position for Stormers stepper De Jongh. He was electric with ball in hand, scoring two tries while also putting in his usual faultless defensive performance.
Well said indeed.
I could warm to him Moz if he plays like this more often. He has enough pace to play on the wing. I dont think he distributes well something that a lessor athlete like Conrad does. Has de jong got the nous is the question. He does not have raw power socannot break tackles.
Space is at a premuim but put him into space and he is dangerous.
I could warm to him Moz if he plays like this more often. He has enough pace to play on the wing. I dont think he distributes well something that a lessor athlete like Conrad does. Has de jong got the nous is the question. He does not have raw power socannot break tackles.
Space is at a premuim but put him into space and he is dangerous.
Even planet rugby agree with me- Dejong should be playing inside center. Jean is an outside center- at inside center he can not even create a paper aeroplane.
At inside centre Jean was the most dangerous back in the RWCQF. But I think unfortunately both Jean and de Jongh are 13s.
You are probably right both are 13s. However I recall De Jongh and Sadie ripping up the Blues last year. Was De Jong at 12 then?
Maybe, but if we are talking test rugby....de Jongh can't play 12. Smaller centres can't prevent the offload in the tackle..... perhaps the most dangerous pass in rugby. De Jongh is a superb tackler of players trying to beat him with pace, or a step......he flies in low and ends it. When the player runs right at him and stands up in the tackle he can't smother the pass.
As a runner he is also most effective in space....although he is surprisingly strong near the line. Get him a bit of space at 13 and he is going to make lots of breaks.
Bok centre pecking order - first of all one has to ignore these little pretenders like de Jongh and Ebersohn and its also time to move on from the old boys like Jean and Olivier.
At 12, the incumbent is and will remain Frans for some time. His back-ups in order are Whitehead, Jan Serfontein & Frans Venter
13 is up for grabs and the lads in contention should be: JJ, Taute, Jordaan, Pat Howard, Jan Serfontein
The experts have spoken Sapp....no more of your twaddle.
Ah yeah the same experts that had Murray at 13 last week - good one Moz.
JJ was better than de Jongh this weekend and so we have de Jongh bubbling under for the first time all S15 having played against one of the weakest sides in the S15 and now all of a sudden de Jongh is the answer - get real, you talk about tonic, look in the mirror man.
de Jongh is nothing and Meyer knows it and that is all that counts. While Meyer is Bok coach he wont waste his time with little guys who cant impose themselves at the highest level. I am with Meyer 110% on this.
de Jongh is about par at S15 level, but given his average performances all year, if I was Coetzee, I'd play the impressive Baby Bok, Pat Howard at 13 for the Stormers next season - this kid is a test prospect, de Jongh is NOT
You're with Meyer, but then you're against Meyer. Dave anybody with an impaired brain function would experience schadenfreude reading your material.
At what point have I ever said anything against Meyer, appart from the fact he went conservative against England, which one can to a certain extent understand given he was new to the job.
The man is too switched on to continue down that route, I expect him to dispose of Morne soon and Jean thereafter - its just a matter of time. Apart from these few conservative selections, he had his squad almost spot on and its good to see he is up with the times regarding small players at test level.
I back Meyer all the way and have never said anything but - FACT
centres compliment each other. jean has never in his career had decent speed and width ons his passes and lacked for the better of the word a proper step. his take the tackle and offload style works a lot better with a bigger fast hard line running out side back like jacque fourie. because of his size and speed he can create a gap from nothing. but that style is very much one off and only brings 13 into play. where as a player like franna can give the outer halves more space and time with his quick wide passing. the stormers needs a 12 with proper creative skills and great passing skills to fix that utter rubbish backline of theres. the outside backs are all world class but they are not serviced correctly. there is other technical issues there as well but a proper backline coach would have been able to see this
.JDJ and JDV are both no13's that is fact. one is wasting JDJ talent in 12
Guys, its really horses for courses..JDJ can be an asset at 12 or 13 depending on the game you want to play and the guy you have inside him at 10. Lets face it, we dont have another Jacque Fourie here so we gota work with what we have got. It seems everyone is settled on Frans Steyn at 12. Not 1 of the Bulls centres are up to it in my opinion. What you want in a 13 is a guy who runs great lines and free's up space for the outside backs to finish. JDJ is a finisher, not a great creator so I think there can be a break down with him at 13. He looks to go himself before setting up others. He will run the Northern Hemisphere teams ragged but may not be as effective against the AB's and Aussies and lets face it, those are the scalps we all want most...Thats what I mean about horses for courses. We cant be harsh on JDV as he has been great for the boks and has tons of experience to call on but if we are looking for another option, I wouldn't mind seeing how Jaco Taute goes. Up until he got injured, he had the most running metres of any SA back in the s15 and that was with a different 12 inside him almost each week in a less than great Lions team..I would like to see what he can do with world class players inside him and consistency...Based on form at the moment too, I think Ludik deserves a crack at 15. Why they persist with Zane "the nik nak man" Kirchener I do not know. He lacks vision, lacks any real pace, defensively average. He is the epitomy of average and it excites the kiwi's when they see his name on the team sheet. I know because I live in Auckland...
there is enough young talent for the unions to groom them into a proper 12 but one can make a proper 5/8....they are born not made. franna played at first 5/8 that is whty he plays so well at second 5/8. the decision making process is very similar with slight differences. with serfontein ext we have great potential no12's coming through. they just need to be picked and groomed. but the stormers will need to buy another 12. JDV and JDJ are not no12's
Boklogic, am with you on Taute, the kid is a class act and deserves a crack at 13 outside Frans at 12.
But you have got it wrong regarding the Bulls centres, JJ Engelbrecht in the past 2 games has been a revelation at 13 with his running skills, good pace, great step and swerve.......this lad and Taute are our options at 13 without doubt.
I used to think Ludik would make it all the way but am no longer convinced. Lambie is the answer at 15, but he could do with bulking up a little
i will go with hennie daniller at 15.....
Saffex, I should have been more clear. I dont pick Lambie at 15 because he would be my 10. No other 10 in SA has his brain. Goosen from the Cheetahs comes close but his temperament has not been tested at a higher level. Lambie does need a good feed though to put on some size and be less prone to injuries ;-) Saffex, who would u play at 15 then if Lambie was at 10?
I can really comment on JJ Engelbrecht as I never watch Bulls games as I wake up at 3am to watch the Sharks and go back to bed after and I cant stand Morne Steyn. I just dont think he is a good rugby player. I dont know much about JJ at all but its good to know Bok rugby is looking good then. If he has been that good then yeah, I hope we see more of him in and around the bok setup...
Carpet, Daniller is hardly S15 standard - no way in hell will he ever be a test 15. The guy has no X factor at all
Boklogic - there is only one choice for 15 and that is Lambie. The sure in at 10 is Goosen, this kid has it all, cool head, skill and nerves of steel.
Daniller!!!! No!!!!! He is and will remain a loosie trying to play in the backs. He brings nothing to the park besides size and safe hands.
Lambie at 15 and Goosen at 10...no brainer. This is one area we agree Saff, lol
