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Centre stats and other observations.

Started by Mozart9 REPLIES337 VIEWS· 11 Nov 2012, 07:25
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MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
11 Nov 2012, 07:25
#1
11 Nov 2012, 07:25#1

C Taute 0/0 0 1/1/6 18 0 0 1 1 5/1 0/0 1 0/0 C de Villiers 0/0 0 0/3/6 27 0 1 0 1 10/0 0/0 1 0/0

 

Match after match, at 12 or 13, Jean statistically outproduces his partner. In this match he makes 4.5 metres a carry to Taute's 3.0. And he makes 10 tackles without a miss versus 5 with a miss for Taute. Yet week after week a few posters on the Board tell us he is washed up and we need to replace him with Taute or Steyn or Jordaan. I disagree.

 

Jean and Lambie at 12/0 were our best defenders among the backs. Notably though, Lambie produced even less metres running than Steyn. Don't get me wrong I'm very happy with Lambie at 10, I am just reflecting on the simplistic view that all we had to do to get a running game, was drop Morne.

 

Our loose forwards made a titanic 41 tackles with only one miss by Alberts. Louw was the tackling king with 16 tackles and no misses.

 

For a lock Etzebeth's stats were just as impressive. He made 13 tackles without a miss....took all his own lineouts and stole one from Ireland.

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
11 Nov 2012, 07:44
#2
11 Nov 2012, 07:44#2

As far as the match stats are concerned, they are rather remarkable. Ireland led 60/40 in territory.....58/42 in possession....9/6 in defenders beaten.....218/188 in metres gained....9/11 in turnovers conceded. There is almost no stat, except lineout turnovers, where thethe Boks led.

 

Yet by the end of the match they had the measure of Ireland, much like the Aussies had our measure in that RWCQF.

 

It's a funny old game.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
11 Nov 2012, 08:56
#3
11 Nov 2012, 08:56#3

Mozart

Despite the stats I think that De Villiers is slowly but surely going down and the 2013 season will probably his last season on Super 15 and international level.   I have never suggested that he should be dropped immediately.    I think tht we should look at alternatives in 2013 - for further evelopment in future.  The idea to keep on playing Springboks purelt because of the fact that they were Springboks without regard to present performances - lead to the selection of absurdaties like Van der Linde.  

However, insofar as the stats is concerned - Meyer made sure that that we went into the test with 6 forwards and two passengers and it is clear why we were at a disadvantage - especially in the first half.    He sadding the team with the likes of Van der Linde - what otherwise can we expect?  The only difference between him and Greyling was that he did not get yellow-carded in the process - but they definitely competed with  each other as to who would give away most penalties.

RU
Rugby107Rookie88 posts
11 Nov 2012, 12:12
#4
11 Nov 2012, 12:12#4

I think both Jean and Taute handled their defencive responsibilities rather well. stats tell one thing, but it doesn't tell you that 3 of those tackles by Taute  were very good tackles, that had a big impact on the game. 

 

Anyway let's hope Heyneke plays Taute at 15 against the scots and gives Dejong a shot. My biggest criticism of Dejong is his passing and vision, but with Heynekes gameplan he doesn't need any of those attributes, he is a good defender and if you look at the role the 13's have played under Heyneke its been purely defencive 

Our backline has been badly coached, there is no plan, neither Taute, JP, Hougaard have been given any ball to run with, people will blame JDV for this but its not his fault. He gets told that you will run into your direct opponent and then we will kick.

JE
JeromeVClub Pro492 posts
11 Nov 2012, 13:36
#5
11 Nov 2012, 13:36#5

De Villiers and Taute defensive structure was solid particularly in the second half, they have improved in that aspect since the soweto match when they were vulnerable in defence in all areas. The problem with this centre combination is they don't seem to have great vision, and looks rather unorganized in attack at times, Taute is not physical enough. If they can not improve in that aspect of the game it would be common sense to bring De Jongh on at 13 where he belongs.

My expectations for this next test are high, we should win comfortably against Scotland. England on the other hand will definitely challenge our backline with Tuilagi who is a very powerful runner. We need a outside centre like that, JP perhaps. I think we'll be in for a hard time if changes are not made correctly in terms of selections.

De Jongh at 13, Taute at 15, thats the way to go.
 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
11 Nov 2012, 17:13
#6
11 Nov 2012, 17:13#6

Well Taute at 15 rather than 13, that's for sure. But what makes us think Taute is going to immediately be a step up at 15. Kirchner is not the greatest and needs to be replaced with Fransie, who was very unconvincing at 12. But the call between Kirchner and Taute is not so obvious. Kirchner can't tackle....but Taute's open field tackling is not secure either. Kirchner is a lucky packet in the kicking stakes, but Taute's missed touch started the rot against NZ. Neither player has produced much on the run.....but at least we know the Woolie Boolie can take the high ball.

RU
Rugby107Rookie88 posts
11 Nov 2012, 17:30
#7
11 Nov 2012, 17:30#7

 I would definitely agree that Taute will be better at 15. He only played centre for the lions due to injuries.

 

Tautes open field tackling is actually very good, 1 bad miss doesnt make you a bad defender.

 

The difference is from 15 Taute will offer a lot more on attack than Zane. Taute understands how to join the line from fullback and he runs good lines. Its difficult to judge his attacking play at centre as Jean also has not been very good on attack.This is due to bad coaching and a bad gameplan.He isn't himself when he plays 13, not the disaster that some of you claim, but definitely not at full potential.

 

Also his tactical kicking is no worse than Pat Lambies.

 

He will definitely be a step up from Kirchner. 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
11 Nov 2012, 18:08
#8
11 Nov 2012, 18:08#8

That was in the CC.....tests are different. We have seen nothing so far from Taute that suggests he has great attacking potential. It's easy to blame your fellow players or the coaches, but that doesn't usually prevent a great attacking player from doing something in his first three tests. Something, hell, anything. The proof is in the pudding.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
11 Nov 2012, 18:22
#9
11 Nov 2012, 18:22#9

Mozart

Just one question.   Which of Taute or De Jongh has the worst attacking capacity?   Neither of them is a house on fire - so my suggestion stays - lets look at the Super Series next year and try and identify a better center combination.   Taute should go to full back in any event.

In the meantime we have unfortunately no option but to retain Taute at 13 - since when he is tackled he at least ensure that the Springboks retain ball possession.   On his record in the Super Series defending players continuously rob the ball from  De Jomgh  - or he hangs on and give the opponents penalties.    Too dicey to have him in a test emnvironment.

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
12 Nov 2012, 00:01
#10
12 Nov 2012, 00:01#10

Oh how bloody pathetic, why on earth would you want to move Taute to 15 after another good display by him at 13. He did everything asked of him in a game devoid of attacking play.

For the record, Jean was solid enough this match - the two centres were fine. But come next year, Frans has to return to 12 and Jean must go

— END OF THREAD —

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