CJ Stander Retire at the age of 30 from all rugby

So, our favourite debate on the oldest and smallest loose forward that we let go thanks to Meyer wanting some big boys in his pack. 

I know we will debate this, but got to give it to him. He as done really well playing 50 times for Ireland, British and Irish Lions, won European player of the year and the list gos on. 

For Mike, 30 is the right age to retire, but hen again, such a short career players have. 

Looks like he is packing it in for good. 

Some players would have hung around for another 5 years or so. 

I see Matt Gitaue popping up in US for Major league rugby at the tender age of 38. 

But then again, I think Stander body has taken  a proper bashing probably didn't have another 5 years left in him

I agree with what Dave write above - but for one minor issue, namely Meyer was not a "bubbling idiot", he wwas a "bumbling idiot". .        

I agree with what Dave write above - but for one minor issue, namely Meyer was not a "bubbling idiot", he wwas a "bumbling idiot". .        

Always lovely to see a player retire at the top of their game.

Like Frans Steyn. He knew when it was time to retire.

Bingo

Well-written - those who stay on routinely damaged their reputation as players.   In the past decade there were  large number of players who remained in the game way past their sell-by date.      

"Always lovely to see a player retire at the top of their game.

Like Frans Steyn. He knew when it was time to retire."

He, he! I saw that!

Well, the question is how long should a coach hang on to an experience player and what value can they add. 

I think Rassie bomb squad worked really well. Especially when you have Louw and Steyn on the bench that knows how to handle the pressure. Still good to start a test, but not sure if you can rely on them. So rather than asking a rookie to close out the game, use the old heads. 

So maybe Stander could have been a bench player for another couple of years and have a few more test starts, but looking at his frame, injuries etc and especially the way that he plays. Not sure  he would last. 

But how do you now how great a player is? I think Bismark could have still featured for us until  2019

Injuries aside, there is no reason why a player can't play into their thirties. Look after yourself at least with a mild sensibility and you can go a long way; be at the cutting edge of preparation and conditioning, and you can be a Tom Brady. 

De Villiers once said that  at  his age of  31 he has to train twice as hard to maintain his fitness level he achieved when he was 29 years old.   The prime performance age of players are between 25 and 30.    Once over 30  there is an increasing decline in performances and we have seen it in most Springboks over the age of 30,    There are very rare exceptions where deccline is slower, 

Take for instance the  Springbok squad of  2015    There were 13 players over the age pf 30 and all 8 unplayable players in the squad  was over 30 years of age,.    If one look at the Japan disaster in that series  all the over 30's in that match  were failures and if one look at the failures they include Kirchner, Habana, De Villiers, Pienaar, Burger, Matfield, Jannie du Plessis and Bismarck du Plessis.    Surely a recipe  for disaster is the only conclusion one can come to.   

No loss to South African rugby.....Vermeulen is ten times the big match player Stampkar is. We would never have chosen Stampkar ahead of Vermeulen hence....no loss.

Mozart

The real issue is retirement of players before they go performance-wise downhill and we could have used Stander ahead of  a dud like Alberts and  even Louw anyway,.   Anyway at the tome of his departure from SA Vermeulen was not the Springbok  8  -  Spies was/.    Vermeulen was only picked by the idiotic Meyer after Spies was  injured, and then made the no 8 position his own.             

I get your point Mike, but the greats can play on and have proven that age is a  number. 

I also believe that with better training regimes and improvement in sport science that players can ad another 5 years to their careers. 

But  you are right, they need to work smarter  and play better. 

But you  should listen Schalc  Brits and  Burgher on how Saracens  managed them to  be able to  still  compete. 

At that  age  it   is not the   fitness  but fatigue  that you have to manage. The difference is,  they  have the skill, where as the you  guys still has a lot of work to do on their techniques and skill. 

So fitness becomes primary 

I also agree that Meyer had  too  many geriatrics in the team. 

Jean De Villiers and  Matfield should never have  been there. 

But then  Snorre also made a complete mess of our talent and not selecting the  right  players. 

It appears Rassie has  got us  on  the right track

The players who took us out of WC 2015 were not the vets. Lomp missed a perfectly standard tackle for an AB try. Dud Allende allowed his man to run for 25 metres inside the Bok 22, creating a simple overlap and a try.

No vet could be tied to any AB score.....it was not the vets that lost to the ABs in 2015. Admittedly a narrow loss.....the Boks played the ABs much closer in 2015 than in 2019.

Those are the facts, the rest is nonsense.

The players who took us out of WC 2015 were not the vets. Lomp missed a perfectly standard tackle for an AB try. Dud Allende allowed his man to run for 25 metres inside the Bok 22, creating a simple overlap and a try.

No vet could be tied to any AB score.....it was not the vets that lost to the ABs in 2015. Admittedly a narrow loss.....the Boks played the ABs much closer in 2015 than in 2019.

Those are the facts, the rest is nonsense.

The average age for WC winning teams is north of 28, meaning many WC winning players have been in their thirties. Totally capable of producing 80 minutes of top class rugby... .15 games in a Super Season would require some sensible management for the 40 year olds.

The Springboks in the 2019 final starting team had a total of 2 over 30 players - over 30's  are an exception to the rule.   In the semi against England the AB's had too many over 30 players and that is why they faded away.

The biggest disaster in the 2015 semi between the Springboks and the All Blacks was  MATFIELD.    

Willie was 30 when the final came around - when the squad was selected he was still 29 years old - hence my mistake.

That was a huge reduction compared to the team  under Meyer, taking into account the  8  unplayable players in the 2015 RWC.     

Wrong again.....he was 30 before the WC started you moron. The truth is a bridge too far for you Tokkie, and then as usual you shift the topic.

Just admit you were wrong without trying to imply you really weren’t wrong.

This point was made about Stampkar’s Irishness.

“Congrats on a great career CJ,” he wrote about Stander on Twitter. “But in my mind, someone getting residency after three years, making a national team and then moving back home as soon as they retire makes a mockery of the game far more than Pacific Island heritage players wanting to turn out after a stand down period.”

.....

Fair point I think, residency after 3 years is fine, but it has to imply an intent to be a permanent resident. 

CJ was always going to play international rugby. That is why he went to Ireland. To go to the world cup and improve his chances of playing test rugby. I guess the boks could have done with him but I think there is far more competition in SA than in Ireland and then if you had Meyer as a coach. If a guy like puke watson couldn't even get into the team what was his chances. 

I'd restrict foreign born players to those who came through at grassroots level. That means immersion in the culture and development by that country adoption. Taking older players is robbing other countries of what their systems produce. 

To play for the national team ought to require a change in citizenship.

Citizenship change is required from all players on test level .  

So Stampkar is not a South African citizen?

So Stampkar is not a South African citizen?

I think South Africa made citizenship a requirement somewhere during Beast's career...there was a small period he wasn't allowed to play for the Boks IIRC.

Why should a change in citizenship be required? Because otherwise we are just dealing with rugby mercenaries......which is fine at club level, not at national level.

Why should the Boks be playing a stronger Ireland, a stronger France, hell a stronger Japan....stronger because they are bolstered by South Africans who wouldn’t make our national team.

Then there are the more subtle player harvesting efforts by Oz and NZ in the Pacific.

The Boks are the only team in test rugby playing with only home grown talent. So it’s not only fair that eligibility rules are designed to include only genuine residents of a country ....it’s also in our interest.

Stampkar fails that test.

Mozart

I assume  you have US citizenship - so why can other people mot take citizenship when they are employed in  other countries?    Most South Africans retain their SA citizenship and if  their work contract ends they can return to SA i f they so wish.     

My nephew  went to England in  2000 and took UK citizenship - which he still has - he still owns a home and flat in Essex, but returned to SA in  November 2019  because he wanted his son to  go to his old school  Oakdale and now has a business in Still Bay,    He wants his son to go to Stellenbosch University after he has completed his high school studies,   Perfectly logical - as social problems in English schools  cause children to go  bad. 

Stander gave the same reason for his return to SA - namely the education of his daughter - so I see nothing wrong in his case as well.   Incidentally Stander also received his education at Oakdale,    

By the way you are wrong - Meyer and Coetzee made such a f#ck up with team selection that we lost players  that are now playing in foreign countries,    Instead of selecting teams on the basis of performance they selected them on the basis of reputation and  went further by selecting skill-deficient players  as well.      Why can the better players ignored by Meyer and Coetzee not go and play rugby in other countries  and make their national teams  in the process?