Class act.

Kolisi a below average test player, zero leadership. Show me where and when this leadership and presence was on display. Show me where he was a contributor. 

Whooosh!

As usual the subject of the topic has been misconstrued again and is not the context of player/players ability bur simply what a good caring and unselfish man Kolisi is and what a lovely gesture to see caring for the very much less fortunate.

That in my book speaks words...but this noble act has been stolen by rugby abilities and comparisons.

That is what the topic is about and not to tear playing abilities apart.

Thanks Seba.….there's a much bigger picture involved sadly missed by those with the bone stuck in their jaws.

"Whooosh!"

Indeed. You aren't very good at maintaining or following a discussion. 

Chabal, the point is going to be raised. It's inevitable. As his whole appointment has been about his impact off the field, based on his position on it. That's the entire reason why Kolisi is in the public eye. Now the question is, is the token appointment a real symbol of hope etc yada yada, or a reflection of everything that is wrong in South Africa. His playing ability, and the validity of his position are no trivial things. 

He has never had a solid 40 minutes under Rassie. One run, doesn't make for a great game. Tue casuals look for obvious visual stimuli like that and build and entire narrative around it. Build an entire false reality around it for the rest of that player's career. 

I always have an open discussion whereby I ask for references, and bring film to the table. Their preconceived ideas are always exposed and they can never reference anything in game. Only "He was great/poor", "Got the backline going/ruined backplay" etc. Nothing, hollow hot air. No specifics, and when film comes to the table, they deny its validity. I was once told that the only reason they couldn't find evidence for Damian's powerful runs ws hecause I didn't believe it. Or worse yet, the loud mouths that will criticise and launch into personal attacks who cry when you call them out and demand evidence. It's always the way with the plastics, they are above reproach. Always the same posters who bring almost nothing to the table. No analytics. No deep discussions. One ended bleating matches. Quite a bore. 

Excuse me folks but my original posting was about his concern for his fellow man not about his rugby skills.

It is indeed dishearting to read the slamming that goes on about his rugby skills and completely disregard his effort in this time of need for all.

Please show some respect and gratitude for a noble deed and the person leading that effort.

Appreciated.

AJH, it's a rugby forum. You are talking about a rugby player. It's going to happen. Posting about a rugby player, well, it's fair game. I can respect him being a nice guy, just as I quite like Damian the person, but I can't separate the platform Kolisi has from his quota appointment. I can't accept that. 

I said it once, and I'll say it again, Kolisi is a big back masquerading as a forward. He'd be a much better 12 than Damian. We have a fair amount of these kinds of players, players who would be our answer to the big Polynesian and Micronesia power backs. 

AO

It will happen with idiots like you around.   LMAO

Gonzo, again you miss the point...the topic had absolutely nothing to do with his (Kolisi) or anybody elses playing ability and skills.It was about his charity.

Ja, you are a damn idiot, you never listen properly to what the other guy is saying, instead you are cloned to bleat out the same extremely monotonous and tiresome jargon that we have all heard before with or without your diagrams and illustrations.

You genuinely believe and think you are an expert and this is saddest tragedy of all is when you pose to select YOUR opinions. Analysis can be good when used correctly but sterile and tedious over- analysis can cause chronic sleeping sickness.

"Aug you will find I don’t even bother reading your pathetic shit"

I doth yawneth in the face of thee

Yep ....he did what Hillary Clinton did.....started a charity based on his brand recognition, funded by others, which will probably pay salaries to friends. 

I believe that he is an ethical man supported by the fact that he has spent a large part of his life around rugby folks who generally are ethical guys.

In addition to that, he has gained the support of all the players who played under his captaincy at the WC and his charitable actions after the WC leaves me in no doubt that he is above anything other but a proud SA Rugby player and a concerned citizen.

Plus I doubt that anyone could be cut from the same cloth as the Clinton's and Watson's.

As to rugby skills I have never been a supporter of him.

Not saying that he is a bad player but as we all do I also have my own "player preferences".

But as a player, husband, father, and concerned citizen, he has shown his true class to me in this instance and I respect him as a good decent man who is not self-centered and has a genuine concern for his fellow man. 

He can justly walk with his head held high and filled with pride.

Well done young man.

Me too. 

"Yep ....he did what Hillary Clinton did.....started a charity based on his brand recognition, funded by others, which will probably pay salaries to friends."

I think it's a bit premature and cynical to make that statement now...and it clearly indicates bias against our Bok captain...and having been around this forum for a while, even Siya walking on water won't change the minds of the detractors...and that goes for the opposite side of the coin too.

Perhaps that was a bit harsh, I have nothing personally against Siya, he seems like a friendly bloke. But I do see him as a bit of a media construct.

What bothers me is the Beast has never got that kind of  recognition.....he is the great African rugby success story. Is that because he’s a Zulu?

Yes, were it not for Beast, the Boks don't win that final. He totally took their platform away. Not quite as destructive as the 2009 opening Lions test, but rising to the occasion in like manner. I said it in 2018, Beast was an obvious choice for captain should a black captain be a must. I'd even have gone to Bongi first. Rassie got lucky, because he painted himself into a corner and he couldn't find a balance in the back row. Kolisi was a dead pixel in the big picture. 

Perhaps that was a bit harsh, I have nothing personally against Siya, he seems like a friendly bloke. But I do see him as a bit of a media construct.( That's true and the fact that he's an African black playing for the Boks makes him a symbol of something more than his playing ability...unfair on him and the theam, but neither him nor the rest of the team shied away from this responsibility.  They embraced it for the greater good of rugby in the country.  They are a band of brothers and they know the importance of appearances in this country. His captaincy is about more than satisfying the ANC's quota requirements...it actually diverted the attention from just looking at the numbers...and the whole package came together and it culminated into a fairytale that will probably be told by Hollywood sooner rather than later. I realy hope he does not give in to the pressures of it all...it's a lot to absorb for a young man from a humble background...and IMO he has done a good job at dealing with it all up till now.)

"What bothers me is the Beast has never got that kind of  recognition.....he is the great African rugby success story. Is that because he’s a Zulu?"

Beast is from Zimbabwe. He qualified for residency and got his South African Citizenship, but he's not a born Saffa, so that might be part of the reason. Initially, it wasn't tequired for Springboks to be South African, but  South African residency became a requirement and Beast couldn't play for the Boks for a short while until his paperwork was in place. The rule killed Mujati's test career because he is also a Zimbabwean and he was already playing in England and SA residency wasn't an option.

Beast will go down as probably the greatest South African LH prop in modern times, if not ever. His record is phenomenal. 

The Beast was a legend. I define legend as playing at a sustained level of excellence over a long period of time. Anyone can have a blip, but sustained greatness is the stuff of legend. Beast was very, very consistent, and given how long he served the game, was quite healthy. He is my choice for Bok loosehead of all time. If we're talking world front rowers? That's between Italy and Argentina, maybe Georgia and Romania too.   

Beast is a humble person, maybe he did not want it and had a good enough excuse to distance himself from the burden. 

The fact is both AO and Mozart refer to Beast - presumably as to the captaincy issue.   Let me be blunt,  Beast was given the captaincy of the Sharks at one stage - but he was not at all up t standard from a captaincy perspective and another captain was appointed in his place.   

I am very sorry - but something smells to high heaven here,   Every team has a captain together with a leadership group of senior players,   In this case the captain was Kolisi and the leadership group basically comprised of  Du Toit, Etzebeth, Vermeulen, Pollard and De Allende.   They sometimes consulted on the field before line-outs and even scrums, but the ultimate decision was  always conveyed by the captain.   That situation is normal in the case of any team and the fact is that the decision is by the leadership group in the team and not necessarily only by the captain.          

Damian isn't smart enough to be a leader. He can't even handle his very basic duties. Du Toit? He is all emotion. Not a leader. By example? Well, lets not go there. Faf, Eben, Thor, Frans, Willie. Those are the real leaders of the team. 

Agreed....Etzebeth and Vermeulen captained us through the Rugby Cup, and remained influential throughout. The team was successful before Kolisi came back from injury......then they were successful in spite of him, rather than because of him.

E ben and Thor are the two primary leaders. Eben really rallies the team. He essentially does what Smit used to do, but with more oomph. A Spartan warrior at heart. Very competitive. The kind of leader who keeps standards in place. I like that. You'll often see Eben rally the team and Kolisi nodding his head. Kolisi's greatest contribution is chatting to the ref.

Eben, Kolisi and I think Cheslin are great mates on and off the field...I'm sure Duane too...the whole team was a "band of brothers" All of them had different roles of leadership...like a cabinet...minister of law and order, defence, public relations, etc...

This whole campaign was masterfully planned years ago...Rassie has probably been planning this since 2011, but didn't plan on Alistair getting the job instead of himself...2 year glitch that probably resulted in another few tricks in the bag.

I'm surprised that Card's fine observation ability for play paterns can't pic up this patern.

Coetzee took the team in a direction that was beyond the limitations of its personnel. All those Steph misses really hurt the team when they were pushing ffor attack. The Boks under Coetzee attempted to play from the backs. Rassie reversed that. He implemented a very negative and basic plan to conceil those limitations and hopefully pick teams off high up the field. Coetzee's 2017 was better than Rassie's 2018 though. In the end, Rassie didn't advance the team and had a nice glut of fresh players to mix into the experienced group he inherited as the spine of his team. 

"and had a nice glut of fresh players to mix into the experienced group he inherited as the spine of his team. "

All those players were available to him too, but he picked a few other good players who couldn't  make the step up. He booted Faf and Willie and couldn't devise a sufficient gameplan for the personnel that he had. 

I don't think Alistair was that bad. He had a bit of bad luck too. The resurgence of the Boks actually started under him in the match at Newlands against the Allblacks in 2017, but that was after he took us to rock bottom. 

Rassie picked up the pieces in 2018 and won us the RWC less tha 2 years later...so rock bottom wasn't as bad as it looked???...but I prefer the RWC.

Andre and Am came into prominence in 2018. RG came into prominence at just the right time. A new set of wings at just the right time. The list goes on. The void in the Meyer years only started to be filled by 2017/2018 as the next-gen started to find its feet. 

You are very correct, the resurgence did begin in 2017. His mistake was to play from a weak platform. People want attack, but that leaves one exposed. That's the danger of attack. So, you have to become efficient. Look how many tries the Boks conceded from turnovers, from handling errors. They could be on top, and a couple of stupid mistakes later, they were facing a huge deficit. Those mistakes and weak defence took its too. Putting faith in weaker defenders really was a bad idea. 

Nienaber took the Boks to a more stable place, though the tactics overall have restricted the potential of the team. Some poor selections have compounded matters. They play with a straight jacket. 

Card, Mapimpi and Colbe were just as good back in Alistair's time...

Rassie had a bit of luck. He got a fit Pollard for one, but his main feat was bringing willie and Faf back and picking fast agile wings....AND he built team spirit. He picked players like PSDT for that...and big-brother figures like Brits, Fransie and Flo.

Rassie was very shrewd.  Open your mind to it...stop resisting...it wasn't all just luck....lots of clever planning too.

I have been quite balanced with Rassie. The problem is the over-reach from other members. They want to use Rassie as a weapon to attack Meyer. All I have really done is to evaluate Rassie's work in isolation, I've been quite content to do that, as I have done with ever previous coach. I have corrected countless lies and errors from other members who do no research and make sloppy ill-conceived posts based on nothing but emotion. 

Rassie is an average coach. Not a bad coach, not a great coach. An average coach. I credited him for being more sensible than Coetzee, I credited him for having greater respect for Bok traditions, I credited him for establishing the spine of the team, even though the likes of Steph, Damian and Kolisi have let the team down in every test (Steph all but two in 2018). He hasn't made the best selections at times, and he became very conservative in 2018 after his more exotic ploys failed. He has regressed the team away from the trends in the game; we are the worst ball-in-hand side in the top tier, and even second-tier teams are doing it better! He was incredibly lucky to have a run of games that we could apply our physicality on at the World Cup. It didn't have to be that way though, as this team, with that foundation, has enough firepower to be devastating. He did a good job, not a great one. It's the balanced perspective I am after here. And even in evaluating him, it's hard to separate him from Nienaber, as defence is really the heart and soul of the Rassie blueprint; it always has been. Who should receive the greater credit? It's a hard one to definitively argue. Either way, Nienaber's contributions are clearly no trivial thing! 

Agree with that, but I still think his longterm planning is underestimated. His wide view made things happen.  Allister could have been part of that, but he chose not to.