Congratulations Argentina

No, not for being the most upwardly mobile team in test rugby....we have seen that all year. But for electing a modern, business oriented president after a decade of darkness. This unexpected result is just what a potentially great country needs. Brazil, Argentina and South Aftica need the same medicine.

It's very clear that the economic success of all these countries in the late nineties was totally down to the commodity super cycle....that socialist policies were a hidden drag. And with the commodity crash, that all their governments dont have a clue.

It's time to return to governments that support contributions, not hand outs.

 The man behind the scenes in Argentine rugby is Agustin Pichot - the previous Argentina scrummie.  It was rumoured that he would succeed Marci as Mayor of Buenos Aires and there is also a chance that he would be Minister of Sport in the new Government.
In both positions he is bound to play a major role in advancing of rugby in Argentina.    

Whoosh.  

 As per normal the idiot does not even know who Agustin Pichot is - what a volu me of knowledge that idiot thinks he has.   

Stop lying Moz. Everybody know Maradona is president, and King, and Supreme Ruler of all the lands of Argentina. Geez the things people try to slip by you on this board, incredible :)

 Mike...why don't you read Mozart's post.....I mean, read the post!

 Denny
I read the post and all I did was to mention Pichot and his role in Argentine Rugby coupled to his future in the new political environment in Argentina as well as the rugby impact the new Government could have on rugby with Pichot involved,
That according to the idiot was not important at all.   I felt the impact the new Government could have from a rugby perspective was important - after all this is primarily a rugby discussion site.     .    

 Kak man, you're twisting a spin to suit your own agenda....it's been the nature of this forum to discuss most things. Don't let your hate get in the way of a good story.

 Denny
It was not hate what I wrote initially - it was hate that made Mozart react the way he did.   Sorry to disturb your thinking about this issue - but what was wrong in mentioning the issue of Pichot in any way in this case?
   

No it wasn't hate Pervert, it was the observation that you had totally missed the point of the post....after which you vomited vitriol.  

Hahaha! 
Moz, do you think that Cyril Ramaphosa, a capable businessman, would be of any benefit to South Africa were he to become President? Granted, a lot of his success would have been based on lucrative deals handed to him on a silver platter "buy" the ANC, but he does seem to have decent business acumen.   

 
It can only be an improvement on the current giggling fool.

Question is ... are there ANY strong black leaders out there???????

Any at all??

I have my doubts.

We've had 20 years of "democracy" and in that time all we've seen is incompetent, corrupt pretenders.

 Mozart
You are the dimmest fool I have ever come across.  I knew exactly what you wrote and never said a word against it.  What I did add is that Pichot could through his political alliance with the new President play a role in advancing further rugby as a sport in Argentina.
That went straight over your head - it is far too advanced for a fool like you to understand.   You are as dof a doos as there ever was.  
  
   

Mmusi Mamane seems a decent shout. What do you think about him CC? It just annoys me that he gets called a "house boy" by people of the same race. Seems to always be the go to statement when a prominent black politician emerges from a predominantly white party. It sucks that I was in junior school when apartheid ended and i'll suffer the consequences until the end of my days. Maybe we can elect Maradona for our president. He does do keepy-uppies with rugby balls. Now there's a skill that transcends racial and cultural boundaries.

 
Yes Plum, I like him very much ... but what are the chances of him ever leading this country?

What difference can he make as a leader of the opposition?

We need him in power ... there where he can make a difference ... not on the side lines pointing fingers at the corrupt.

People are afraid to take a chance on another party. They fear Apartheid returning and would rather have their corrupt black Government screwing them at every turn than anything linked to the white man.

Apartheid as we knew it will never return ... but tell them that.

Trust is a hell of a thing to get back once it's lost.

I'm curious ... what do you mean by "and i'll suffer the consequences until the end of my days"   ... ??

 Mike, I like you....I really do, however, there are days when you lose me......and yourself. Why is it so? Are you going through male menopause?.....sorry, I don't mean to be rude. Or are you bi polar....sorry again I'm not meaning to be rude but I really believe  there's a problem with your mood swings. You come across as angry and it bothers me. Is it simply a case of anger management perhaps? Treatment is available....Yoga,  Tai Chi and a variety of meditations spring to mind. I'm really just trying to help....I hope you understand. I still remember the two of us having dinner at Coogee beach... a lovely moment. You looked so serene and calm......where has it all gone so pear shaped my friend?

Denny, I think it is just because I am very sensitive....but I think I detect the tiniest bit of sarcasm! It is very subtle, but I am sure it is there! LOL

 Bluebok...please....the situation is critical....asseblief  Meneer....a somber attitude is a necessity, as a senior member of this forum I expect you to set the example....Thank you  Ps Mickey might have to change his medication..

 Denny
I am not on any medication and normally do not have any fights with anybody - bar Mozart.  He is and has been very rude and the way he carried on makes me lose my cool with him.
I did not comment on his statement on Argentina - in fact I am in agreement with him on the issue of Governments spending money they do not have, having being involved in Government budgets on high level in the period 1975 to 1983 serving on many committees dealing with that kind of issue - and his nasty comment were definitely not called for.
He always attacks me personally on whatever I comment on when he does not have a professional rugby comment to make - and that has been the case all along.  Because you dare to differ with him on issues - which did not in fact happened in this case - he turns nasty.   
There is only one other poster that displays the same attitude - I have no problems with any other posters and has never been subjected by them to the same type of treatment Mozart dishes out.  
I do appreciate your friendship and never ever on this site turned nasty when we discussed issues on this site.  So no medication needed - I just lose my cool when Mozart turns nasty and lies about my background and qualifications on this site.  
At one stage Mozart and I agree that we should calm down and to treat each other like gentlemen.  It lasted a month before he started making personal attacks.  I asked him repeatedly to refrain from doing it - but it got worse and worse by the day and i then decided to react to him in similar vein.  
If he chooses to act like a gentleman - so would I.       

 Alright, I hear you....you sound distressed. Please don't slash your wrists....or do anything to inflict harm on yourself. Help is on the way. Sounds like Mozart is a very naughty boy. Would you like me to have a word with him?

 @mozart,

how do you do to have always all your data completely wrong?

"It's very clear that the economic success of all these countries in the late nineties was totally down to the commodity super cycle....that socialist policies were a hidden drag."

The nineties are known, economically speaking, as "la decada perdida" (the lost decade) for all these countries, for all the south and central american countries.

In Argentina the last time they suffered a "a modern, business oriented president", as you like to call them, was in the period 1989-99. His name was Carlos Menem and his policies provoked that between 1998 – 2002, Argentina experienced the worse socio-economic crises in its history.
The economy nose-dived from recession to full scale depression, culminating in double digit negative growth in 2001 – 2002. Unemployment reached over 25% and in many working class neighborhoods, over 50%. Tens of thousands of impoverished middle class professional lined up to receive bread and soup only blocks away from the Presidential palace. Banks closed depriving millions of depositors of their savings in what was called the "corralito".
Middle class protestors organized radical neighborhood councils and linked up with unemployed assemblies. The country was heavily indebted, the people deeply impoverished. Scores of protestors were killed and wounded, as a popular rebellion threatened to seize the Presidential palace until Menem's sucesor and member of the same party Fernando De la Rua, was overthrown (2001).

If you think that this is an "economic success" I can understand how wrong is all your understanding of the world.

The rest of "all these countries" were in a similar situation, though not so deeply bankrupted, thanks to the "modern, business oriented president"s they had at the time. Brazil, e.g., avoided in the last moment to go through the situation suffered in Argentina, both countries were in a very similar situation, they had their currency tied to the US dollar but the brazilians could react in time and untie theirs which made their crisis less grave.

In "all these countries" after the crisis of the nineties (mainly a debt crisis) provoked by the neoliberal policies, leftish goverments took the power through elections in almost all southamerican countries but there was no such "socialist policies". The goverments that came after the crisis, Nestor Kirchner in Argentina or Lula in Brazil, applied keynesian policies which are capitalists not socialists.

(some of the passages describing the argentinan crisis have been taken from news and I didn't put the "" coz there were too many and could be confused with the quotes re to what mozart was saying)

Pfffffffffffhahahahaha!

Moffie getting schooled on one of his self-proclaimed pet subjects again.

First it was the hilarious "Lambic pentameter" fiasco, then he got exposed for not knowing how to integrate x squared (which he uses as the measure for IQ) and now it seems his knowledge of Economics is roughly similar to his laughable knowledge of rugby!

LMAO!

Interesting read black power. CC, i mean the general BBBEEE and other ways whites are discriminated against officially. And obviously white hate crimes, which I don't think are as common as one thinks but still, I really dislike living with it. Then also smaller things. Like I might make a joke and i know it's not really that funny and a black guy/girl will laugh just out of being half polite and half programmed to respect white's words. Honestly, I'm not Mr PC or anything, it's just that I prefer to earn my respect, not just get it because I am white. Dunno if that makes sense. They're two kind of contrasting problems, yet stem from the same moronic idea.

 Absolutely... the hidden rugby nation that has enough ammunition in talent to defeat the best...but quite cannot finish it. they will get better s

 Did you say Pear shaped denny....hahaha....are you taking the piss? .

 So Basque you looked it up and quoted a bunch of googlenomics. What happened to Bargie in 2002 dufus? What happened to South Africa in 1998? What happened to Brazil in 1998?  There you go plank all their economies saw a jump in economic growth coinciding with the commodity cycle timed by their various lag factors. And that growth spurt was never ended by the Great Recession but by the end of the commodity super cycle.
Live and learn chump. And try to help the AAS while you are about it....he is so abysmally dumb.

 as always, you are so confused and wrong,.... the commodity cycle? the commodity super cycle?
these are terms used just by the financial agencies but they are not used in economic theory,...... much less used to explain what happens in the economy or in a certain economy

This is a graphic of the evolution of one commodity index (one of the most used mix of commodities prices) from 1955 to 2012:


I challenge you to explain what happenned in Argentina's economy in those years using it or whatever other commodities' graphic you wanted. If you like it more you can explain what happened in Brazil or in South Africa.
Oh, and please don't forget to include the "various lag factors"

ABasque in describing your graphic you used the word evolution...so at least we know Beans won't agree with what you are saying!

 

 You can't seriously be trying to deny that commodity based economies didn't benefit from the commodity super cycle can you. As you can see the RSA GNP is highly correlated. But you are denying a link?
What's the problem Basque....why are you such a painful fool. Was your mommie not nice to you?

 your GDP graphic doesn't fit at all with that of the commodities prices.To begin with the biggest rise in the commodities price in 1973 doesn't have any equivalent in the SA GDP.
It has some coincidences because the commodity prices (not the cycle) it's influenced by the economic situation (not the other way as you pretend). For example, the 2007-8 crises provoked a fall in the prices (not as you pretend that the fall in the commodities price provoke an economic crisis, the crisis was mainly a financial crisis provoked by the burst of the real-state bubble)

As I said the commodities cycle (or super cycle) is not a term used in economic theory, it's just an aproximate term used by the financial agencies.

You forgot to explain us which the "various lag factors" are, and if you are so sure about the cycles you can explain us what is exactly a commodity cycle and what is the difference with a super cycle

I vote we start an antipidean(spelling) fight club. People always get along better once they've rolled and lost a few teeth to each other. No Wardad!!! I get Beenis first. Some of the guys on here seem a little older and I'm not sure why you choose to bicker but it is entertaining. Though personally, I'd rather hear more stories, like the one Mozart relayed of the bike and cobble stones. I get the feeling people just want to prove each other wrong all the time. And hell, since you are in front of your Pc and Google is right there, it's not too difficult to get information. Information that is available to all. So why not discuss this information as opposed to slinging it about like sh1t in a bra? Who knows, we might learn something.

 Dumbo....I never pretended the "economic situation in 2007 was influenced by the commodity cycle".....I said the commodity economies were influenced by the commodity cycle. Spot the difference.

And no the crisis was not provoked by the "burst of the real-state(sic) bubble". It was provoked by credit products that were incorrectly given high credit ratings based on bundling. Can't you get anything right?

There's a movie I saw the trailer for which has a very good cast that is about the 2007 toxic mortgage debt insanity that caused the whole concept. Looked good. Will post the name if I remember.

 from your first post you are saying that the economy (overall or from a certain country) depends on the commodity cycle:
"the economic success of all these countries in the late nineties was totally down to the commodity super cycle"
I refuted this with another example, the 2007 crisis.


this is from wikipedia:

"The financial crisis of 2007–08 was related to the bursting of real estate bubbles which had begun during the 2000s around the world."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_estate_bubble

 @plum,

it could be "Too big to fail"?

You proved nothing....the commodity economies went up with the commodity super cycle, and tanked when it reversed. Case closed.
As for the financial crisis.....the CDOs which caused the crisis were based on real estate. And the existence of these products had a role in pushing up real estate prices. But it was the vulnerability of these products that caused the deep collapse.

The real estate cycle peaked in mid 2007 and declined to an index of about 92 by April of 2008... When Bear Stearns collapsed and was bailed out. 

The market increasingly focused on CDOs and their related insurance products after that...and by early 2009 the index had dropped to a stunning 62. All driven by credit....easily proven because with credit restored over a short 6 years the index has rebounded to 120. Which clearly demonstrates it was a credit problem....inherent real estate values don't double in 6 years.

So the CDOs created the real estate valuations and massively multiplied the effects of initially modest real estate declines.

It helps when you have been in the industry.

Basque it's called The Big Short

 I didn't see that one,.... going to download it and see it, thanx

the one I mentioned, "too big to fail", it's an HBO TV movie, also about the 2008 crisis and with a very good cast, james Woods, William Hurt, Paul Giamatti,.... the director is also quite known, Curtis Hanson (LA Confidential,...)

 Aw gee...no thanks to me for educating you Basque?