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FORUM / RUGBY /  De-weaponise the Penalty

De-weaponise the Penalty

Started by kingcorn7 REPLIES678 VIEWS· 01 Dec 2022, 12:39
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KI
kingcornPro3,695 posts
01 Dec 2022, 12:39
#1
01 Dec 2022, 12:39#1

I came across an interesting YouTube post where someone posted how they would change the game, but one thing that did stood out was the penalty. 


How often do we see momentum swings in the favour of a team that wins a scrum penalty. They get to drive it deep into the opposing team territory with a touch finder, soak up time as they stroll up to the line out and then get to setup a maul which then leads to numerous penalties. 


Or it is the end of the game, 5 min has gone but the team can still clock up penalties and score well into injury time. 


It use to be that a penalty was only there to stop the opposing team from losing points as the goal kicker would be able to get 3 points and why kickers like Naas was so valuable. Back then tries were also 3 points. 


I know they tried to go for a free for all at the ruck and award free kicks, but I think it got nullified because players did it so often. Then, the smart teams would go for a scrum, the game would slow down, several resets and before we knew a penalty came. 


Things I would change

  1. Get rid of scrum penalties - Freekick and the scrummy or any player can take it from anyplace around the scrum, not behind the 8th man feet. It should allow the attacking team to still run their set plays. Only if the attacking team is interfered from acting fast should a penalty be awarded. Scrum penalties is a lottery at the moment. 
  2. Kicking for touch, should no longer be a line out to the awarded team. Just a line out where the opposing team throws in. 
  3. Ruck penalties, any player who goes off their feet should be penalised, Hands in the ruck or entering from the side. 

I still want the penalty to mean something but not to the extend that momentum shifts to the degree where a team can drive up the field making it a one sided contest 

sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,226 posts
01 Dec 2022, 23:11
#2
01 Dec 2022, 23:11#2

Having a free kick instead of a penalty would reduce the significance of the scrum. It will be less beneficial to choose strong scrummages that are often less mobile. That would reduce space with more fit players, and be a bit more like league.

With penalties, it is a scrum on the spot, or a lineout where the attacking team throws in.
Kicking it out for an opposition thrown in would mean kicking for touch is used much less often.

A 5-metre free kick would probably turn into more up-and-under bombs as there is more chance of winning this than turning over at the lineout. 

Scrum penalties are a problem, but if referees have one glaring weakness it is this.
Frequently sports analysts on live commentary who were ex-test forwards say explicitly that the referee has gotten certain decisions wrong during the match. (e.g. when Malherbe folded the much-vaunted Vunipolo last week). 

Having a scrum referee might be an option. Even an international backline player does not understand the scrum. A retired test row prop is hardly going to be fit enough to keep up with general play, but could come onto the pitch for scrums. 




DE
Deus Ex LemurPro2,355 posts
01 Dec 2022, 23:17
#3
01 Dec 2022, 23:17#3

The modern game already requires fitness in the front row. It's an integral part of all round attacking rugby, but I get your point about the scrum.

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
01 Dec 2022, 23:51
#4
01 Dec 2022, 23:51#4
I love scrum penalties so noooooo they stay
KI
kingcornPro3,695 posts
02 Dec 2022, 13:42
#5
02 Dec 2022, 13:42#5

Ja, I think one thing I'm trying to avoid is getting rid of the scrum as well as the ruck. Rugby works best when you draw in players so that there is space for players to use skill to get into space. That is why teams prefer to attack off a scrum, it genuinely setup a free kick. 

But what is better, watching a fair scrum feed, the dominant pack advancing and winning the ball back, or this nonsense we have now. 

Maybe, we are to obsessed with free flow rugby and that everything should be fast. Rather than having ebb and flow, which rugby has always been about. 

We run the risk of becoming like rugby League where the scrum is merely a reset and teams can gang up on a ball carrier but then never win the ball back. There are some skill I think which is great in Rugby League, like their backline play and taking the ball into contact which is even more brutal than rugby at times. 

But Rugby works because you a 135kg person can play as well as a 75kg player. You can be tall, stocky, lean etc. I also love it when a big boy getting tackled by a smaller player. 

But I want players to compete and fairly

DE
Deus Ex LemurPro2,355 posts
02 Dec 2022, 20:32
#6
02 Dec 2022, 20:32#6

Scrums were better and more technical back in the day. 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
02 Dec 2022, 20:48
#7
02 Dec 2022, 20:48#7

In the old days you won a tighthead, which is the appropriate thing…..a change in possession. This has to be one of the few rules in sports  that penalizes incompetence rather than cheating.

Mauls not being pulled down is nonsense sold on a bogus safety concern. Offsides should apply in the mauls not stopping the maul by bringing down the ball carrier ….just another rule in rugby that leads to boring play.

DE
Deus Ex LemurPro2,355 posts
02 Dec 2022, 22:47
#8
02 Dec 2022, 22:47#8

Agreed, Mozart. 

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