BEBeeno1
Captain40,032 posts
BEBeeno1Captain40,032 posts
06 Oct 2014, 10:36#2
Bluebok I dont like booing of the kicker but are you living on cloud cuckooo. The hahahahhaka is hilarious and why not sing Ole if its what you want to do. You think no nz oak talks while the SA anthem is sung? This sort of th ing is universal.
RORooinek
Captain18,117 posts
RORooinekCaptain18,117 posts
06 Oct 2014, 10:37#3
Glad you enjoyed it, bluebok. What a great game for your first live Springbok vs All Black test match.
If you think the Ellis Park crowd is rude and disrespectful at international games, try watching a test at Newlands!
06 Oct 2014, 10:42#4
Well Beeno, in certain venues in Ireland for example, you can hear a pin drop during the anthems, while a kicker is lining up a kick etc. I say it is just a sign of respect.
As for your take on the haka, well I don't agree! Simple as that. Speak to any Springbok player that has faced it and you'll find that it is something they have great respect for. Who would know better than a Springbok player?
06 Oct 2014, 10:46#5
Look, I am a big fan of traditions and all but the Haka has become a joke. I think that it is arrogant bullshit that is shoved down the throats of rugby spectators all over the world. For sure, do it in NZ but "when in Rome.........."? More and more crowds are showing their dislike in the whole circus, and that is what it is. Seen one, seen them all.
Why should a South African/Welshman/Frencman/etc be forced, in his own home country, to witness something that he has no interest in? If the crowed manages to shout down something that is broadcast over the stadium sound system, doesn't that tell you something about the opinion of the majority of the crowd? "The tribe has spoken", so to speak.
Speaking of a rude South African crowd.... what about the rude NZ crowds with their constant booing? Oh wait. "Everybody does it".
06 Oct 2014, 10:51#7
Sorry but alot of disrespect going here. Haka is a joke? Apart from being as part of World Rugby as the Rugby Ball. Its a huge part of NZ tradation and heritage. It is a war dance that is a huge part of the spectacle. It prepares NZ for battle, and the oppossition. I think its a joke you dont like it because its not fair haha. I mean really.
06 Oct 2014, 10:54#8
DA agree 100% about the laser. That is just cowardly!
DA, during the NZ anthem people just weren't giving due respect at all. Many of those around me were just carrying on as it if was not happening.
BEBeeno1
Captain40,032 posts
BEBeeno1Captain40,032 posts
06 Oct 2014, 12:03#10
IT WOULD SEEM THE KBBS ARE ASKING US TO TAKE THE HAHAHAHAHAKA SERIOUSLY. THEY CAN'T BE SERIOUS. GROWN MEN STICKING THEIR TONGUES OUT, ROLLING THEIR EYES SLITTING OF THROATS AND WEE BEAU TRYING TO LOOK FIRECE. MAN IT'S PURE COMEDY. LONG LIVE THE HAKA I SAY WE NEED SOME LIGHT HEARTED FUN.
Rooitwit Newlands just oozes class and tradition but I admit we have a very small minority who dont know how to behave. Queens Park lacks all this and hence ou rooitwit g etting jealous again.
GEgeneraltit
Pro3,164 posts
06 Oct 2014, 12:14#11
Disrespect is an awful thing from badly bred, go with the flow hooligans...it must forever be looked upon as distasteful... self-centred lowlives that never care for the lives and needs of others. Yeah, the booing at Newlands really spoils this lovely venue...totally unexceptable, chain saws at Waikato, disrespect for anthems and the haka and the ultimate interferance of drunken hooligans tackling and interfering of refs and now laser beams.
Rugby is slowly slipping down to the vile standards of soccer...a game that tolerates vuvuzelas and years ago had fences and nets erected to stop thugs and skinheads throwing darts at each other.
It all starts with lesser things and ends in the cesspit...a little leaven, leavens the whole lump eventually.
Unfortunately society gets used to these things and they become the norms of mass behaviour.
Was rare in the old days and certainly never at schoolboy rugby...it was an offence at most of the decent schools in my day...not tolerated in any form at all.
It is just so thoughtless of others and spoils the game, the atmosphere and leaves a nasty taste in the true rugby lovers mouth.
06 Oct 2014, 13:01#12
I wouldn't class cheering during the Haka as a disrespect, I see it as the home side accepting the challenge and getting behind their team.
The Haka should not be tossed aside, it's a tradition.
Seems like the Argentina should get serious repercussions for their fans actions, need to stamp their hostility out that they bring from Football.
Booing a kicker is disrespectful.
06 Oct 2014, 14:20#15
As I said before, I abhore booing kickers and whistling/jeering. At my club, we get a severe telling off if anyone does transgress during place kicking; it is so quiet you can hear a pin drop. That is how it should be.And I do not like the way things are going at all. My opinion.
Again, my opinion about the Haka. I think it has become somewhat of a charicature and I find it sad that it has.I think it has become forced upon teams that they must react and behave in a certain way and that is why there is somewhat of a backlash. One I do not agree with. I do not agree with ill manners from anyone, and that certainly goes from folk here in England.
Just my opinion.
06 Oct 2014, 18:01#16
With Becs on this one. If all of the England club supporters can get it right, why can it not be done elsewhere?
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
06 Oct 2014, 18:09#17
I think that thinking people should respect each others national anthem and in the case of the haka - it is a cultural part of the NZ rugby tradition and should also be respected. However, there is a problem with crowd behaviour and they are whipped up into a frenzy and lose their own self-respect. That happens all ove rthe world - but all I can say - I condemn such behaviour.
GEgeneraltit
Pro3,164 posts
06 Oct 2014, 18:33#18
Cheering during the Haka is disrespect and inconsiderate of other peoples values whether you feel it is right or not...that's precisely the point have consideration for others even though you might not like or believe in their values or not...you never can win an argument if it's done without respect...we are all the same in some sense, we should according to my beliefs respect and love people even though they might be strange , be wrong and even offensive. Respect is saying in Christian terms you are important to God even though society despises you.
To communicate with people it's important first to understand them and this requires effort and work, sometimes not pleasant and sometimes unrewarding. But always be honest even though honesty might cost you everything even your very life.
Those are the words of my own parents who certainly had their faults but my brother and me were fortunate to have this wise instruction early....respect often said is earned...but this is only part of it...you respect those who don't deserve it as well then respect will follow and will be your bonus. Love and respect go together...they are not isolated... Jesus said love your enemies (that's not saying love the sin, the wrong and disception) but meet people with an open stance just loving and respecting them...you don't fight fire with fire but with gallons and gallons of cool life giving water.
God bless you all.
sharkbok
Captain23,294 posts
sharkbokCaptain23,294 posts
06 Oct 2014, 19:50#19
The Haka allways reminds me of the New Zealand Orcs they way they all have expressions during the war dance. I remember the one Haka that was done when they were slitting throats during the dance.
JWJust_win
Captain18,570 posts
JWJust_winCaptain18,570 posts
06 Oct 2014, 19:57#20
The slitting throats move was dropped after the first or second time it was done. Too graphic for kids. Not all rugby players are as handsome as the guy in the photo you posted sharkbok
06 Oct 2014, 19:57#21
Ah but the Orcs weren't from NZ ! Tolkien wrote the books about his homeland in Scandinavia, England and even Africa was involved. Never NZ. They have only been involved by definition of the filming process.
The Shire was England. As I have said before, I come from what we term the Shires But I am not a Hobbit !!!
sharkbok
Captain23,294 posts
sharkbokCaptain23,294 posts
06 Oct 2014, 20:01#22
Becs did you know that Tolkein was born in South Africa? He was born in Bloemfontein. He did go to university in England though.
Apparently they would have shot in England but it is now too industrialized. So they decided to use another country.
The final reason they choose New Zealand was because they knew they could save money, allot of money.... on makeup just by using New Zealanders as Orks
GEgeneraltit
Pro3,164 posts
06 Oct 2014, 20:05#23
Haha good one Sharkbok.. .be wary of Cloudy and her friends...wants to invite Beeno and myself and other Saffas for a boil up...Cloudy, Beeno has been on a diet and I have the lean and hungry look, rather invite Saffex...lolz
06 Oct 2014, 20:49#24
Yes, I did know that and I know he had Scandinavian roots before settling in England. That is why I said he wrote about what he knew and used those countries in his books.
They filmed it all in NZ because Peter Jackson likes to stay close to home !! That is all, really. It was as simple as that.If they had an English director and got the tax breaks, they would have done it here ! We just film everything in the Baltics and Ireland because of the tax breaks....and then they film stuff like Batman and Star Wars here.Crazy !
The branding of Middle Earth in NZ has caused consternation amongst the Tolkein family.
sharkbok
Captain23,294 posts
sharkbokCaptain23,294 posts
06 Oct 2014, 21:57#25
Becs what does the Tolkein family think of the branding of the Kiwi Orks?
06 Oct 2014, 22:24#26
There was a problem with the family about the Hobbit films, I believe. Law suits etc ? The estate has made a few comments about the whole thing.....Google it. There was a lot in the papers over here when the films were being made.
sharkbok
Captain23,294 posts
sharkbokCaptain23,294 posts
06 Oct 2014, 22:52#27
Hi Becs, I think the orks were more ugly than Tolkein intended them to be... Although I will do some Google researches.
06 Oct 2014, 23:20#28
Well they were pretty fearsome, weren't they ?!
And a real bunch of automatons, as they were intended to be.
07 Oct 2014, 00:17#29
Those Orcs in the movie WERE from NZ ,all Maori if you look closely thats my brother on the left hehehe,he is in their tho.[ they did a Haka with 300 of em to warm up in the Helms deep scenes ,apparently the wee skinny uni students playing the Elves all took fright]We all know how you feel about the ABS and KIwis becs so no real surprise there RE: the Haka ,which is for the ABS and their opponents and has stuff all to do with anyone else but I guess its only English traditions that matter like ruling Scotland etc.Yes indeed by all means turn ya back on the Haka ask the Aussies how that went for them ?
07 Oct 2014, 00:27#30
Did I not just say I do not agree with bad manners from anyone ? I do not think anyone should boo or jeer or anything during the Haka. Full stop. But I think it has been done to death.I have always respected it. But I think it has been done to death. My opinion.
I have had some very good friends from New Zealand. One was a lovable rogue, in every sense of the word. So you really do have no real clue as to my opinions.
As for Scotland, I have always said I would have been glad to see the back of them !!
AJArthur John
Pro1,748 posts
AJArthur JohnPro1,748 posts
07 Oct 2014, 20:04#32
Gentlemen, The crowds are booing at all venues including NZ. Very unsporting to say the least.
With respect to the Haka I feel that the national anthems of the respective countries taking part is more than enough of an introduction to the test. My grandchildren (Canadian born) have great fun when the Haka is performed prior to the game and I know it is a great source of discussion with all rugby players. Some players really go overboard performing it.
I was of the opinion that it is a Pacific Island tradition and not really a New Zealand one.
Comments and thoughts.
JWJust_win
Captain18,570 posts
JWJust_winCaptain18,570 posts
07 Oct 2014, 22:54#33
New Zealand is a Pacific I sland & yes it is our tradition also.
PAPakie
Captain17,321 posts
07 Oct 2014, 23:05#34
I have no problem with the Haka. Personally I've grown bored with it just like I have with the anthems (I just want the frickin game to start), but it doesn't hurt anyone and takes about a minute. Big whoop, why the fuss?
PAPakie
Captain17,321 posts
08 Oct 2014, 05:51#35
Easier to just show up after the anthems and the haka Cloudy I don't have taping facilities, the odd game of rugby is pretty much all I watch on TV these days.
RORooinek
Captain18,117 posts
RORooinekCaptain18,117 posts
08 Oct 2014, 07:14#36
There's a very good reason why all the orc scenes from the Lord of the Rings movies were shot in New Zealand . . . huge savings on make up and special effects!
I don't have a problem with the haka itself. What I do have a problem with is the IRB insisting that opposing teams have to "respect" it or else face fines. That is complete nonsense. Teams should be allowed to respond to the haka in whatever way they see fit . . . and if they want to turn their backs on it as the Wallabies did some years ago, so be it.
AOAdmit One
Club Pro389 posts
AOAdmit OneClub Pro389 posts
08 Oct 2014, 12:14#37
Although on TV it looks like nothing, having played against the A ll blacks my self i can confirm that facing the haka that close on level ground is actually fucking terrifying.
08 Oct 2014, 12:23#38
Admit one, are you saying that you have represented your country against the AB's?
BEBeeno1
Captain40,032 posts
BEBeeno1Captain40,032 posts
08 Oct 2014, 12:23#39
Sharkbok you are onto something!
That orc you posted looks a lot like Read. Seriously look at the eyes etc. It has to be Read!!
I suspect they all turn into orcs at midnight.
I love that series though - such a fight of good against evil. NZ looks like a very beautiful land hardly right that its inhabited by ORC!!!!!
Seb its on my buckett list to have a fine mean boil with Cloudy and company. I will however definitely leave before midnight!
The Haahhahahahaka must stay it has me in stiches every time. However ou rooitwit makes a rare point of value and I agree opposition sides should be able to respond as they choose - although Scottish/Wallace type mooning etc should not be allowed. Keep it decent.
08 Oct 2014, 14:58#40
Cloudy, I wouldn't want to run into the Maori from the first Once Were Warriors either. "Uncle f***ing Bully!"
