Does SA have any decent coaches? Who should take over the bok reigns

Look Mike, I don't want you to get the wrong idea that I'm all onboard with Rassie now. 

Yes, there are really valid points on here whether Rassie ever capped new boks. 

However, all of the Stormers players or those that have played for the Stormers came through the youth system when he was at the Stormers and the director of the stormers. 

Meyer brought a lot of talented players through the system too, like Pollard, RG and Kriel. 

So if I'm being objective, it is unfair to say Rassie had no influence on capping the boks. 

It is the same what White and Dobbo are doing. They are bringing the best out of the young players the lead to caps. 

Bulls under white

- Moodie, Arendse, Gobbler, Norje 

Stormers - Dobbo

- Libbok, Roos 

Rassie - Stormers

Kittshoff, Malherbe, Etzebeth, Kolisi, Deon Fourie, Pollard (Yes, WP age group player that got poached by Meyer for the bulls. Schalc still haven't forgiving Pollard for going to the bulls), De Allende, Kolbe

Rassie - Cheetahs

Vermeulen, then Stormers , Frans Steyn

Ackerman / Swys - Lions

Marx, Kwagga, Mostert

So the bulk of the bok team come from when Rassie was at the Stormers. 

I think it may also limit him, he may not have capped them but he is sticking with players he knows. However, the Stormers were a good team, not a great team that never won any trophies until the WC and then those few at the Stormers got the URC championship. 

Rassie has a massive blind spot in that he is too loyal and not willing to bring in players when the should have been brought.  

He is also to conservative and only selects players that can follow his game plan. It works to a degree but it also robs the boks from switching gears. 

I don't think Rassie ever won against a tier 1 team by more than 3 scores. Most of the games are tight. No wonder he has a go at the refs. Not that it is easy, but with this team he should have walked through the past 3 years and won more game. Ireland has a 70%+ win record. No excuse for having 60%

So, yes, I want to stay positive, he has contributed significantly with player development even though he didn't cap them, but he is blind in bringing in younger and better players through. 

Gobbler should have been capped more than Dweeb as he is the best 2 in the country after Marx

Roos should have been on 10 caps

Libbok should have been part of the bok squad and not Elton Jantjies

Esterhuizen should have gotten more caps

Vermeulen should not have been brought straight back in against the AB when not fit

Willemse as a 10 and kicker when he couldn't establish himself in that position at the stormers. Great to have a backup there, but he only had one match winning kick, the rest was match losing kicks on cost us 3 games. Should have been more at 12 and 15 for the boks. 

So no, 2022 was a year of fuck ups. 

The other problem is that Rassie is definitely playing the quota players such Orie and Moerat, Mcunu etc that shouldn't be near the boks squad. He is so obsessed with meeting his quota that he and Mark Alexander is happy to lose a few games. All the other coaches had a spine and would not stand back to the ANC, even when they got threats. 

Don't get me wrong, I rate Rassie very highly, but he needs to change or fuck-off. 

Hopefully with the WC trophy, if not, could be an 

Well said KingKorn and I also hope we will win.....but looking @ past season and your points, Rassie won't change much he should rather go....he has had all this time since 2019 to improve everything so how long must we still wait??  

Erasmus implemented the defensive approach which prevented the turnover tries that were deathblows to Coetzee. That was where his influence began and ended. Which players have flourished under him? None. Our best players look ordinary the more they are exposed to his philosophy. Our best players can hardly get on the field. His analytics are poor, his tactics are poor, his game planning is abysmal and archaic. It looks no better than Straeuli's Boks. The only difference is that our primary foes are at an all time low. Erasmus began with a worse record than Coetzee with his 2018 season, which was given a pass. Then 2019, a season where we were 6th after the WC loss to NZ. It's myth that he developed this team. There is no such evidence. You all fell for the feel good hype. 

I definitely think that professionalism has come on a lot over the past 5 years. Munster and Bristol put out 2nd string team and beat the bok A team. Although, half those A players were not even starters but quotas or coached by a quota. 

At least Rassie stopped the bleeding that we had to endure under Coetzee. 

I also agree that the international teams may not be as strong as they use to be. 

Probably because of too much rugby and less time for teams to get up to speed. The only time a team arrives fully conditioned is at the World Cup. 

But New Zealand and Aus has suffered because of Super Rugby no longer being the comp it use to be. 

Eng and Far play way to many games a season, but then I also look at the URC teams where those teams like Leinster play 25 games a season. 

We have always received week teams from the North, but the last couple of seasons they have actually send over some decent teams. Like Ire beating NZ, Eng beating Aus etc. 

Back when the Southern Hemisphere rugby was strong and international player from SA, Aus and NZ would play something like 11 to 14 super rugby games. Then 12 test and maybe 4 to 6 currie cup games. We had all the best players at home, playing against the best of Aus and NZ. 

Now all these players are either in Japan, Eng, France and the league is a lot weaker. 

I don't see how NZ or Aus will ever get stronger. 

So yes, the teams aren't that great, but too much rugby. I'm not even bothered watching the Heineken cup this weekend. On so many different channels. Have no idea where it will show

KC

I do not think that the story about Rassie is entirely fair.   The problems actually started when Meyer was coach.    He did the minimum when it came to bringing in new players into the squad preferring to use players - even those who retired for playing for the Springboks.   The only two changes he made was caused by injuries and substandard performances of some players,   That saw basically five new players brought in by Meyer - namely Willie le Roux, Pollard, Vermeulen and De Jager,   Only Vermeulen and Le Roux was really regulars in playing  in tests -  the other players were in and out of the Springbok team regularly..   

In the case of three players he was forced to bring in through injury and Fourie being too fat and useless at 13.   Those were  De Allende and Kriel - by the start of the WC they had played together in matches 3 times and there was also Du Toit - who played  one match in the WC series because Alberts was injured.

The fact is Pollard never played while Coetzee was coaching - De Allende played in some matches - but Kriel played in virtually no matches.   Le Roux never played while Coetzee was coach.    

So even though  on paper there were players coming from the Meyer era - the fact is that when Erasmus took over from Coetzee it was effectively necessary to rebuild the team totally and get the spirit of even players like Pollard and Le Roux improved to make them useful players again.     

l'Grande Merde

You know zero about rugby.    Your description of what Erasmus did is total BS.    For the first time in many years we saw proper attacking rugby played playing 15 man rugby.   The backline itself scored more tries under Erasmus than the full teams scored when Meyer was coach.  Defense were miles better than it was under Meyer and Coetzee.

Breakdown ball protection and recovery improved by a massive margin and turnovers became more regular than it was in the past.   The Springboks won the WC through clever coaching and the fact is that your brain is malfunctioning.   The Springboks record in 2019 was 11 matches played - one match lost and one draw.   They not only won the WC - they also won the Rugby Champions Cup.- the first time ever since the Tri-Nations started to achieve that.    So if you cannot see the difference the shit is flooding your eyes totally.

I think so not sure, but the 2007 Squad Under Jake also won the Rugby Champs and WC ? ...we all know what happened in 2019 and how good it was Mike....but right now we have slipped and things Like ball protection, Turnovers, Defence and Attack is not what it was in 2019....Surely you can see that by Watching Video and keeping up to date with latest team stats/ Rankings? Surely Meyer can't be blamed for what is happening now under R&N....his Term is long Finished already.

2019 was a year of ugly rugby by the Boks. Did you know that the 2015 Boks out produced the 2019 Boks in every statistical category in just 4 games? The 3 RC games almost eclipsed the entirety of the 2019 season. Food for thought, this was before the trends changed in the game for more loose defending. The 2019 Bok's ranked poorly for handling errors and turnovers conceded, especially in the WC. 2019 hinged entirely on the win over a Wallaby side who was the worst in 45 years, and the final against England. Two games. Two very good match ups. You are a fool Michael. You keep resisting the truth. The Boks have never been good under Erasputin. No team has ever shown any good change in fortune because of him alone. Your best answers seem to be on a Currie Cup, which is about where he belongs. The Tin Cup. Even then, it was all hinged on good coaching by the Cheetahs. He didn't stick around long enough to asphyxiate their good brand of rugby. Erasputin has benefited greatly from the players Meyer left behind: Pollard, Jantjies, Malherbe, PTSD, Kolisi, Thor, Eben, Lood, Kriel, Willie, Whiteley. Those are some of the 37 players Meyer unearthed in his 4 seasons. Whiteley's injuries ruined his test career, but in 2018 he was the best defensive Bok by a good margin. Consider the likes of Marx, De Klerk, Mbonambi, Am, Mostert who were unearthed by Coetzee and it's easy to see that the Boks have stagnated under Erasputin. His entire core is largely of Meyer's reign. Mr Clever, do try and live up to your name. 

What the hell is ugly rugby?   You refer to shit in claiming the 2019 team was based on what Meyer produced.    Meyer produced bugger-all.  He played ping-pong with players and nearly destroyed the career of Pollard.   In and out of the team regularly.   Du Toit played 1 match under Meyer out of position after Alberts hours before the match announced to be unfit to play.   Whiteley was never selected by Meyer and was never in the Erasmus teams.

You know one thing  - you talk shit all the time.   Meyer was the worst coach SA ever had - on par with Coetzee and other idiots.   After given a massive amount of money Meyer concocted a team of failures and Stade was near to being demoted to play second league rugby.   What Meyer did for SA Rugby was on par to what he did when nearly destroying Stade Francais as a rugby club.   He spent money on duds like Morne Steyn, Alberts and a string  of other failures - all of whom was sent packing together with Meyer.   He was so poor as a coach that he left all rugby coaching - nobody would employ him as a coach - and is now a book-keeping clerk.

You still lie about Erasmus's coaching career - a story which was totally proved to be BS anyway.   Rassie coached the Cheetahs for 2 years - during which the team beat the Meyer coached Bulls - and then went to WP after his contract with the Cheetahs expired.   He then became the Head Coach serving for two years and then was appointed as Director of Rugby of Western Province and in 2012 as Director of SA Rugby.   It was supposed to be a partnership position - but Meyer was total amateur and did not even know how to deal the comprehensive rugby evaluation system indicating the activities of all players when on the field of play.   In fact Meyer ignored the system totally.    Meyer in fact was so bad that he selected a 31 man WC squad of which 8 players were unplayable on test level.   The 8 ws so bad they played one starting match or never again as starting players in the WC.    .                                          

Pollard has never reached the level he was at under Meyer since. I see how the orks get worked up. The truth hurts, like rubbing salt into a wound. No matter what drivel cascades down your crooked face, Meyer and Jake both outclass each and every thing that Erasputin has ever tried to pass himself off as. I have an abundance of facts that you can never lie away, and I have openly challenged you on any game, player, or facet of the game. I see what Erasputing really is... he was supposed to be the anti-Jake/Meyer. But, the tragedy is that he was everything the pseudo-fans claimed to hate, and those they hated were everything they claimed to have wanted. Game over Mr Clever. I hope the spectacle was worth the loss of whatever credibility you had left. 

So Pollard never reached the level he reached under Meyer.     Meyer used him four times in 2014 and then he dropped out of sight and Lambie was mostly used with Pollard on the bench.   That went on till the Japan Disaster in 2015    After that disaster Pollard for the rest of the tournament played at flyhalf - but he was not a house on fire against stronger teams.   How the hell was he better under Meyer than under Erasmus?    He was 10 times a better player in 2019 than he was in 2014 and 2015. 

This is why you cannot ever be taken seriously as a member of this site.   In your case shit reigns supreme.               

In the new today. There is a rumour that Rassie may stay on after the World Cup. I’m not sure if I like the idea. Watching the games this year and towards the end of last year was painful. 

Do we have to endure another 4 years if we are building towards the World Cup?

I would say the boks must reach the final, minimum if not with the bloody thing. 

As I said before. There’s no easy matches in pool A or B. 

I can maybe see us beat Ireland. NZ always have been 50/50, so not sure if we’ll get past them. Australia is our bogey team and we also drop a game against them. England, don’t know which team will show up and then either France or who ever in the final. 

I would definitely not shed a tear if we get knocked in quarters for Rassie, 

Erasmus is 1:2 in World Cups. The last time we played Australia we were toothless, and Lambie blew the one shot we had by mistiming his run off a Jean pass. The defining moment of his senior career. Nienaber sorted the Snor defence, but cutting edge in our last golden era was poor. As Eddie Jones stated: Morné played flat, but there was no movement around him. A hallmark of Erasputin ball. This is likely to be one of the hardest schedules we've had. Unless of course France, Ireland, New Zealand et al have a mare, which is rather unlikely. 

What is 1:2 in WC Rugby?     Youa re talking total shot again - and that is a fact.    He was involved in only 1 WC and that one was won by the Springboks.   In that series the Springboks played  real 15 man rugby and in the end beat England by 20 points - the second largest margin in RWC series.

The difference was in the 2007 WC the Springboks never played against the AB's and the Ausies - both of which teams would have destroyed the bumbling Springboks - especially bearing in mind the disastrous record of the Springboks in 2006 and 2007 in the Tri-Nartions.

You lied about what happened in the coaching appointment of De Villiers to succeed White.   The real problem was that the Bulls and Cheetahs caused the smaller unions in wanting to get rid of White and replace him by Meyer,    Meyer was nt a CC winner for two years running and the WP and Sharks representatives knew he was BS and refused to support his appointment.  That was the reason why Meyer was NOT appointed in 2008.   They probably was right - Meyer in the end was a disaster for Springbok rugby equal to De Villiers and Coetzee as coaches.  

KC

If you think the matches in 2022 was painful to watch I assume you did not watch the matches played under White in 2006 and 2007 - as well as Meyer  in 2014 and 2015, as well as the Springboks in 2016 and 2017.   Those were all painful to watch.