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FORUM / RUGBY /  Duanne as an option at 7

Duanne as an option at 7

Started by Beeno18 REPLIES206 VIEWS· 19 Apr 2013, 12:10
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BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
19 Apr 2013, 12:10
#1
19 Apr 2013, 12:10#1

Ex Sport 24

Cape Town - The arm-wrestle between Duane Vermeulen and Pierre Spies for the No 8 jersey could be one of the most intriguing for the Springboks in 2013.

Both are fairly appealing candidates, with certain obvious strengths but also one or two areas of their game where they fall a little short of a renowned, “complete” character in the position like the All Blacks’ Kieran Read.(Hahahahahahaha  we are talking about the show pony read oak!!)

Indeed, perhaps the ideal counter to Read would be a formidable mix between the two: Vermeulen’s rugged energy at close quarters (Which Read does NOT possess OAK) and more consistently sound defence, allied to Spies’s rare, explosive athletic abilities (Which are rarely on display) oak.

It would be interesting to establish just which of the two seasoned professionals Bok coach Heyneke Meyer regards as the incumbent: is it Vermeulen because he did the job extremely competently on the unbeaten end-of-year tour in 2012?

Or is it the 50-cap Spies, on the grounds that he had been the preferred choice until a finger fracture severely curtailed his year, ruling him out of both the Castle Rugby Championship and the northern hemisphere visit?

It was during the newly-constituted four-nation tournament that Vermeulen first got some regular starts for the Boks, although he was in injury recovery mode of his own at the time and wasn’t at his sharpest until the three-game tour of Ireland the UK.(Correct)

The Stormers stalwart finished 2012 with a bit of a flourish, earning rave reviews in the London press for his contribution to the desperately narrow 16-15 triumph over England at Twickenham to complete the Bok mini-sweep
.

Ever-present at the breakdown ... a huge reason why South Africa won,” enthused The Guardian, for instance.

But now Bulls captain Spies is back, seemingly refreshed at Super Rugby level in 2013, and both players were part of the enlarged Bok group which took part in a short camp in Cape Town earlier this week.

Meyer was naturally inundated with questions on a variety of Bok players - particularly some of the newer faces - when he conducted a brief media session during the exercise, so the Spies v Vermeulen quandary did not have an opportunity to be
raised.

But it would be fascinating to establish at some point whether the coach has contemplated yet the possibility of fielding both in the start-out loose trio.

For that to happen, Vermeulen’s qualities as a blindside flank could be chewed on: he is a perfectly versatile customer, like many modern loosies, and it was at No 7 where he made many successful appearances for the Stormers or Western Province in his earliest days since signing at Newlands from Free State in 2009.

Schalk Burger was the settled open-sider at the time, with Luke Watson commonly occupying the No 8 berth.

At 116kg and 1.95m, Vermeulen has all the physical attributes to be a forceful international blindsider, and if fielded alongside Spies would offer two really good lineout options at the tail.

There would also probably be plenty of scope for the latter to be more of a free-ranging, potentially game-breaking player away from the tighter exchanges, where Vermeulen and likely open-sider
Francois Louw - Meyer again enthused about the Bath-based player this week - would be strong, industrious figures at the breakdown. (I agree that if Spies is to add value this is the role he should have) - leave the hard stuff to the hardmen, Louw and Vermuelen)

Keep in mind that that is an area where Meyer has revealed he will place an aggressive focus this year, as he feels the South African game has fallen just a little off the pace there.

Of course switching Vermeulen to No 7 would put him in conflict with a certain Willem Alberts, who has ongoing qualities and Bok aspirations of his own but is sometimes worryingly injury-prone - shoulder issues seem to resurface a lot - and may be best employed a little more sparingly. 9Vermulen when compared t oAlberts is the better palyer and only 2 kgs lighter)

You’d be brave to whisper it too loudly in the vicinity of the Sharks-based “Bone Collector”, but is he perhaps best used for second-half impact purposes off a Bok bench?

Not for one second am I suggesting a Louw-Vermeulen-Spies loose trio is the route Meyer will, or even should, take when South Africa kick off their Test season against Italy in Durban in early June: the country is, as always, blessed with an abundance of candidates in the department
.

But it is one option worth debating.

Fair enough and it is a possibility as I too would like Spies to play a more roving number 8 role. He has been better also this year although doubts stilll linger on the mongrel factor and his tackling bi sno twha ti tshould be in intensity.

Playing more amongst the backs ala Keegan Daniel style would perhaps suit Pierre. However one concedes there are a number of possibilities. But Meyer please tweak the loose trio according to conditions and opponents - that could be very important againt top sides.(Against weaker sides obvioulsy it wouldnt matter too much)

Given the power of the rest of the Bok pack Spies could model himself on Keegan and Read. Reads problem is he cant play the tighter role when the wee ab packs get klapped - eg Dunedin and Twicks. Then he disapears. Pierre is not as bad as wee Read in that regard. Of course read looks spectaular running like a back and show boater fans hype the guy to unrealistic hights. Note how the oak writing this article gets it totally wrong.

sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,298 posts
19 Apr 2013, 12:40
#2
19 Apr 2013, 12:40#2

 Spies makes no contribution to ruck play, and this is where Vermuelen is a much better allround player. 

Vermuelen is a strong carrier in the tight and also a fetcher. Spies is better in the loose with his pace but relies on his other 7 forwards to set the platform.

Meyer will however choose Spies due to the Bulls Broeder Bond connection.

BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
19 Apr 2013, 13:07
#3
19 Apr 2013, 13:07#3

I reckon Spies will start, with Duane on the bench. I'd do it the other way around, cos Spies would be more effective as an impact player, but I very much doubt that Meyer will see it that way. Still, I hope that sanity prevails and Duane starts.

sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,298 posts
19 Apr 2013, 13:11
#4
19 Apr 2013, 13:11#4

 agreed that Spies is a better impact player.

However he would not have much of a positive impact in many of the games last year.

The reason being is that the bok forwards typically had the advantage in the first 50-60 minutes and the opposition usually dominated possesion in the last 20-30 minutes of the game.

Typically the big bok forwards tire towards the end of the game.

This is where Coetzee from the Sharks made a major impact.

His tackle count was higher than most players even though he was on the pitch for 25 minutes or so.

If our forwards are being dominated Spies will be a pedestrian. 

The All Blacks are good at exploiting our big forwards tiring towards the end of the game and this is usually when they score most of their points. 

So perhaps Spies would have more impact as a first half player with Vermuelen off the bench in the2nd half. Although I would rather start with Vermuelen.

CA
CaponeClub Pro176 posts
19 Apr 2013, 16:51
#5
19 Apr 2013, 16:51#5

You guys are obviously joking … right??

 

Spies is a coward. He tends to shy away from contact. He should rather take up ballet. No way I would give him any Bok jersey ... especially not the Bok 8 jersey. .

 

Vermeulen is disappointing. It seems test rugby is a little too much for the man to bear. You should never see him challenging Alberts for the 7 jersey.  It absurd. Vermeulen should rather stick to super rugby. The test arena is not for him.

 

Bring Jacques Engelbrecht in at 8 … leave Alberts at 7 and chalk Louw up at 6.

 

Spies at 8 …. Pfffffffffffffffffffffffffhahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!

 

What next … Hougat at 9????

 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
19 Apr 2013, 17:06
#6
19 Apr 2013, 17:06#6

You can say whatever you like - the following bulls players are certain of selection to the Sptingbok team:-

  *    Kirchner

  *    Morne Steyn

  *    Hougaard

  *    Spies

  *    Kruger

We would also for sure have at leat three bulls players on the bench.  

Whatever we may say or think - Meyers first priroty will always be to pick Bulls players and then add other to make up the team.   He is unlikely to pick Bekker in view of his dparture after Super 15.

The other 13 players will probably be from KwaZulu-Natal, with a springkling of Stormers players and one Cheetahs player.

MEYER CHANTS - THE BULLS FOREVER !!!!

CA
CaponeClub Pro176 posts
19 Apr 2013, 17:30
#7
19 Apr 2013, 17:30#7

Yeah I reckon your right.

 

If his first Bok camp picks are anything to go by I'd say we're in for another frustrating year.

 

Truly amazes me at time how the national coach can be so blind.

 

The rest of the planet can see exactly who's hot and who's not ... except him.

 

 

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
19 Apr 2013, 18:34
#8
19 Apr 2013, 18:34#8

Ou Maaikie you are loosing it.

Vermuelen if very well suited to test rugby as the accolades coming his way on the NH tour show. Definitely well suited to NH conditions. Alberts does not work as hard as Vermuelen who adds more value.

sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,298 posts
19 Apr 2013, 20:13
#9
19 Apr 2013, 20:13#9

 Capone, I am not sure what you are smoking but man please stop it because your view of reality is destorted.

Vermuelen won man of the Match against England in the last test of the year. #

I think it was the English whom awarded him.

He is physical and a proven bok candidate. Engelbreght looks good, but he has to produce that form from a longer period of time to make the boks- in fact he is not even starting for the Kings.

I am talking about number 8, not even remotely considering either Spies or Vermuelen for 7

— END OF THREAD —

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