Best 12 in the game
Best 12 in the game
Nope Ahki was the best 12 in that game.
What is worrying, is that some of our top Boks are not really inform at the moment....kwagga, Willie and PieterStef are in Japan and no news of how they actually doing....rest of the Squad is actually very dormant and not performing as they should....what we are seeing though, is our Young guns and ex Boks out performing the incumbents....this should be a wake up call for R&N to get there selections correct before season starts.
Disagree all the way
Here’s another better 12 than Dud as he proved in the Lions’s series:
A human torpedo who kept holing Leicester amidships from start to finish. A destructive force in attack and defence, he started the try with a trademark blast over the gainline, then finished it off a few rucks later with another.
A sad indictment on the game if DDA is the best 12 in it…..
Bullshit de Allende was better than Henshaw who could not even get into the Irish starting side this past 6N
HIGE fan of de Allende and we will really miss him in Munster. Watched him live against Leinster and Henshaw and I bite my tongue here and agree with Mozart. They have totally different strengths but I think Henshaw is a more complete player. de Allende can be a bit weak in defence some times.
However, it is easy to look good when you have dominence all over the park. Put de Allende in leinster and he would be running in trys for fun. They are both quality quality players and deserve to represent their country. We are splitting hairs here on who is the best. It really depends on your game plan.
Wonder if DDA will come back to SA? Maybe Stormers again or the Sharks will grab him with there deep pockets.
Boorad…Dud plays for the Boks with huge amounts of good ball and he rarely registers a try or an assist. His game is pounding out 2 metres a carry in midfield. You can get your eighth man to do that. Real centres do make breaks, they do create opportunities, they do score tries.
I’m guessing that brilliant break de Allende made over here was not a break
de Allende is the best 12 in the game because he is so effective at what he does
Centres DO NOT spend the game making line breaks or beating defenders at will - those days are long gone
DA is a physical freak - he has the strength of a forward and the obvious skill of a back. He creates havoc by physically dominating the opposition and creating forward momentum
He is one of the major reasons the Boks are number one and win the series they do
Moz your rugby ignorance is alarming. The fact that you don’t see this when our results keep us at number one and we win WC and Lions series
Stick a less physical player at 12 and see what happens to the Boks
If De Allende storms forward like you suggested he should he would have created a major gap in defense that you would blame on him. Your version of what happens in games is totally garbled and total make-believe BS in which you specializes in creating as well.
Lies, damn lies and statistics.
Leinster play at an really fast pace. Quick clean outs and move the ball out. The same way Ireland played this year. (well 13 of the Irish starting 15 are playing so no surprise).
Henshaw suits Irish new style of play because he has a better set of hands than Aki. He would have started this year for Ireland but for his injuries just before the 6 nations.
Munster played more like SA where we used a lot more one out runners. The ball coming out was just a little bit slower. It is much harder for a center to make line breaks because defence has time to get set. DDA has made a lot of breaks for Munster not just through bullying over the line but through silky moves. If he was with Leinster he would face a lot more mis matches and gaps in the line. The Munster game is slowly evolving to the Leinster / Irish way.
This is not to say that SA cannot and do not move the ball around quickly, they do but their go to move is to bully up front because they have such dominence.
Lies, damn lies and statistics.
Leinster play at an really fast pace. Quick clean outs and move the ball out. The same way Ireland played this year. (well 13 of the Irish starting 15 are playing so no surprise).
Henshaw suits Irish new style of play because he has a better set of hands than Aki. He would have started this year for Ireland but for his injuries just before the 6 nations.
Munster played more like SA where we used a lot more one out runners. The ball coming out was just a little bit slower. It is much harder for a center to make line breaks because defence has time to get set. DDA has made a lot of breaks for Munster not just through bullying over the line but through silky moves. If he was with Leinster he would face a lot more mis matches and gaps in the line. The Munster game is slowly evolving to the Leinster / Irish way.
This is not to say that SA cannot and do not move the ball around quickly, they do but their go to move is to bully up front because they have such dominence. Unfortunately Munster no longer have dominence up front so we have to change our style. I miss the old days
Here’s another damn statistic:
Jean de Villiers, Dud’s predecessor, played in 107 tests and scored 27 tries…a try every 3.96 tests.
Dud Allende has played in 58 tests and scored 7 tries….a try every 8.38 tests.
Jean was twice as productive as Dud. And if you look at who Dud scored his tries against, you get Italy, Canada and the USA among his victims. He has scored 4 tries in 38 tests against top 8 opposition….a try every 9.5 tests.
Contrast Jean….he scored 21 tries against top 8 opponents…vastly more productive. The reason is de Villiers was primed to score tries and set up tries…..Dud is primed to charge into the first opponent and reset the ball
Process player vs instinctive player.
Am 5 tries in 26 tests
Kolbe 9 tries in 18 tests
Pollard 6 tries in 60 tests
Kerevi 8 tries in 38 matches
Tuilagi 18 tries in 45 matches
All significantly more productive than Dud except for Pollard a flyhalf, who trails by one try. It’s crystal clear Dud may do other things but he doesn’t score or create tries.
As I said Lies, damn lies and statistics.
What has the number of trys got to do with how effective DDA is. Rugby is a team sport. It doesn't matter a damn who scores the try just as long it is scored.
The question has whether he added to the team or not. Have they been successful. Well he didnt do too bad in the world cup!
Of course tries are a key responsibility for centres, probably second only to wings. But even more key are try assists where Dud also ranks very low….he hardly ever helps create a try.
Here’s Esterhuizen’s take on what makes a centre dangerous:
It’s like playing Manu [Tuilagi] this weekend. He probably does exactly the same. You never know when he is going to put the ball out the back or carry, what he is going to do. You are always thinking about two or three things instead of just knowing this guy is coming hard and straight. Then it is easy, you can just man up and tackle him. But as soon as a player has that skill set and ability to do more than one thing, that is when it gets tough.’
Contrary to Dave’s view the great centres do beat tackles and make clean breaks. Farrell for example recognized he was being marked by a forward on Saturday and easily beat him to split the defence. Dud would have run straight into the forward.
But great centres also create gaps for their comerades…by skillful passing and offloading….Esterhozen makes the point and lives by it in every match.
They make their tackles and aren’t gassed by a scrummie as Du Pont gassed Dud on Saturday . And they don’t blow their defensive assignments gifting the Poms the YE test.
Dud is a very limited blunt instrument….not a joy to watch, and really dumb, so likely to do something really stupid when it counts.
The obsession with Damian de Allende on this forum has started reaching worrying proportions. I think the "debate" has been raging for about 5 years now . . . if one can call an endless repetition of "he's the best", "no, you're stupid, he's the worst", "no, you're the one who'se stupid, he's the best", "no he's the worst" etc etc an actual "debate". More like little kids sticking their tongues out at each other . . . and it seems to be escalating yet again!
Peeper nobody takes your rugby views seriously….that Notsche was a future Bok captain….that Watson was better than Schalk, that Deysel was better than Juan Smith and that Etzebeth is a useless lock. Just a few of your many hilarious rugby calls.
Mozart if ever hee uses statistics he messed up sine he does not make statistics comparable. In this case decided not to give the number of tests played and jhow many of those tests were played against teams graded below 10, ie and how many against weaker teams. So the comparison Mozart try to make is worthless. .
". . . you are just aping my points . . ."
Me copy your insults which focus on the male member and plumbing the posterior? Nope, I don’t do crude. As for schplottt…..standard comic book terminology.
Mostly I remember you for your view that the Boks had literally no chance in 2007 after Spies was injured. One of the classics. Keep them coming. Oops I forgot, you can’t help yourself.
LMAOFY&Y!
I don't think anything in this world will change people's views on DDA. To call him a dud is nonsence and very disrespectful. He is a great player for Munster and SA. He may not be the best in the world but he is certainly in the top 5.
Great, I'll take that guy's opinion...or simply review the video footage and see that RJVR is a better runner on attack and in support, defender, reader the game and scores more tries.
versus this...
DDA barely makes the top five among SA players.
How could one even come close to calling him top five in the world?
DDA barely makes the top five among SA players.DD"Who are the four SA pla12s better than him...Pokkel isn't bad but DdA is the better playerA DDA barely makes the top five among SA players.
How could one even come close to calling him top five in the world? makes the top five among SA players. .DDA barely makes the top five among SA players.
How could one even come close to calling him top five in How could one even come close to calling him top five in the world?
"DDA barely makes the top five among SA players."
Who are the four SA 12s better than him?...Pokkel isn't bad but DdA is the better player...IMO Esterhuizen is the only 12 in a position to challenge.
You jarpies have crappy standards. Such funny. A jarpie in the top 5 in the world... at center? You have got to be having a laugh! Eveyebody knows you don't have good centers. The best that ever you had were fat fransie and beanstalk jean and that is saying something! fuck me, the peasants fighting over crumbs.
Danie Gerber...nuff said...doffel.
Draad
Pokkies and Esterhuizen, as a start.
They're both better defenders, runners, supporters, distributors as well as being able to better read the game.
In which categories, if any, would you score DDA higher than either of the above two guys?
To me, all I can think of is his ability to stay on his feet. At least that's where he has the best chance of scoring higher ratings than RJVR or Esterhuizen...and I'm not sure that I would actually score him higher in the end. The rest of the categories, for me anyway, are a wash.
I've always heard how good DDA is but, apart from a few rare occasions, never really seen it.
That's the only reason that I don't rate him. Had I seen him perform better, or steal the show once in a while, I'd have had reason to change my mind.
We haven't really seen RJvR in tests. I liked what I've seen from Esterhuizen and rate him. DdA is the incumbent, with loads of experience. If we are worried about his form, we should be playing someone from the bench...
I really liked the way DdA played for the Stormers before he became a Springbok. I remember him making loads of offloads and breaks...it might be only perception, but I think a lot of his "deficiencies" are deliberately coached out of his game by the Bok management AND it started under Meyer.
I think his biggest weakness is is his positioning on defence, but his strength is saying on his feet while carrying and tractoring on.
your dreaming draad. damian was always shit but you lot beat your chest. the big boer who is so tough but a lardy fatty that cannot compete. get with the times. you don't have one good centre and we made your stupid springblocks look like cavemen every time they have to make any kind of the decision making. stupid fat and slow proteas. you greatest strength is carthorsing and kicking. maybe your team emblem should be a cross eyed donkey kicking its back legs out.
Agreed, Draad.
He did look good prior to being picked for the Boks.
We also continuously hear about his skill on the training field.
But training field goals don't count for anything on match day.
mozart
Hall Of Fame
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Dud Allende got middling ratings, because he is supposed to be good. One standard tractor which beat no tackles, one useless kick and two missed tackles….gassed by Du Pont and horribly stepped by the left wing. That was his contribution in the first 20.
The Toulouse try at minute 26 wasn’t his fault. But watch his reactions. He is standing on the goal line, but as the ball comes out he takes a step back instead of sprinting to the defense and then he ambles across and gives up. Probably wouldn’t have got to the wing, but one would like to see some effort.
Finally at minute 28 Dud makes a routine tackle. Then with lots of space Dud kicks directly into touch…obviously somebody told him to watch Esterhozen. Except Esterhozen has some skill.
At minute 38 Dud takes the space but beats no tackles, doesn’t offload…still it’s probably his best moment in the game, and Farrell provides the innovation, Munster score.
Brilliant break by Farrell sets up the Munster try at minute 43. Where is Dud? Move after move he’s nowhere to be seen.
Ntamack totally bamboozles Dud at minute 45 but the cover saves the day. At minute 48 the prop replacement bounces off Dud.
Minute 52 with lots of space Dud tractors and dies with the ball… the next phase a Toulouse penalty. Minute 54 with lots of space he tractors again…next 5 they kick away the ball. The yellow advantage is being wasted.
Minute 67 Toulouse show the value of the offload vs the tractor…try time.
Minute 4 of extra time Dud kicks the ball away we’ll inside Toulouse half with plenty of space and support. Even the fauning commentator says that ball has to stay in hand,
Thirteen minutes into the extra time…he tractors over the 22.Next up another forward tractors just as effectively. Next Toulouse gets the penalty….so many chances for Dud in the 22, but he can make nothing happen. Minutes later Aki does a better tractor. But there’s time for one last Dud tractor.
The best centre in the world according to Dave contributed nothing, except 5tractors which hardly beat a tackle, a few awful kicks and quite a few missed tackles. Game after game this is what we see, a player who literally contributes nothing. On the day Farrell and Ahki were much better.
Brilliant game by O’Mahoney though.