Eish, The most expensive quota Captain in history, Kolisi

I don't know if anyone has been noticing what has been going on recently with Kolisi's back and forth between clubs, but he is costing the Saarks and SA rugby a lot of money. 

It has been reported that Kolisi has now stated that he wants to go back to the Stormers to be with his family and kids. 

On that side, a farther needing to be near his children I can fully support and I really feel sorry for the guy. But he is not unique as many parents, married or not has to spent months away from their children. The only good thing is that he is back in SA and easier to see them if he stayed in France. 

There are service men that serve their country and spent months away in a war zone and these men put their lives on the line for their country. Then their are hard working mothers, that leaves their children to be raised by their grandmothers while they work as domestic servants in South Africa, or those fathers that has to do very risky and dangerous work in oil fields or even mines. 

All of the above people earn far less than what Kolisi has earned. 

This guy really work on my tits. He has become another black person that thinks he is God and people should just bow to his demands. Everyone is so sensitive around him and nobody wants to upset him. Vincent Mai, an SA millionaire has been helping children to go to expensive schools to get a better start in life. 

The media and SA Rugby has turned him to a poster child of rugby transformation when he has been average for the boks with a few cameos where he excelled. But he was never really the captain of SA and we saw the real leaders such as Eben and Vermeulen working with the team. Then, in the last World Cup campaign, we saw that Bongi was the captain against England. Rassie chopped both Eben and Kolisi because they were so self involved. There even was an incident where Duanne got pushed out by Kolisi in the leadership cricle because of his own ego. 

Rassie and SARU as well as his millionaire benefactor, Vincent Mai, that gave him a scholarship and helped him from a teenager to excel. 

No other black or white sports person ever received so much support. 

One thing that is obvious to me is that Kolisi is spoiled. The fact that he cheated on his wife, allegedly, he dropped the Stormers for big bucks to go to the Saarks. Then only a year into lucrative 5 year contract he decided to pack it in and go to France. Racing club owner quickly saw who is and when he gave him a little bit of criticism to say that this guy is invisible on the field, which is true, when you watch him, he always jumps away at the ruck instead of putting his head down and get over the ball. 

On top of that, he landed a huge brand contract with, Pedo File JZs , allegedly, Roc nation. 

This guy has become so rich by being an average player and yet, now he wants to ditch the Saarks and want to head back down to Cape Town. 

He should have taken ownership of his mistakes, same as Jantjies who cheated on his wife, if he Kolisi cheated on his wife then this the price he should pay. 

He should stop expecting the clubs to bail him out. Jantjies is now stripped of being a bok, the management was patient with him, but he just made so many bad choices. Yes, Kolisi transgressions may be less, but ultimately, you signed a contract with your club, but he seems to be able to get away with anything at the moment. 

This to me is not a leader, it is a child who never learned to stand up to the world. 

I remember how Rassie was running the touchline as water boy and the big noise he made because Kolisi couldn't talk to the referee and he felt the reff ignored Kolisi. Rassie nearly called the ref racist and Mark Kohane definitely call the reff racist, but it is just Kolisi not being able to show his leadership qualities. If anything, he is more of cheerleader and likes to sing, really badly, clap his hands and jump around. He likes to be on the side of the filed and pose with fans while they take photos. He likes to show off. But in the change room, you never see him talk nor do you ever see him talk to the players on the field. Who is talking to the players under the post, it was Duane or Eben. Who is the guy that speaks up in the change room, it was PSDT, that really told the guys to pick their heads up. I have not once seen Kolisi inspire any of the players. 

The guy doesn't even play more than 40 min and yet he is captain. 

So far his cost Rugby R50 million to the Springboks, the Saarks and Racing just to try and get him for 40 minutes on the field. 

Is he the best player in the world, no, is he the best leader in the world no. He is just the poster boy that has so many people behind him to put him in that position. 

I hope that he gets dropped before the World Cup because all of those issues will come to the World Cup. 

He is 33, playing some good rugby now, but I don't want to see a 36 year old invisible flanker on the field or him with his problems being dragged into the boks. 

Rassie will need to find a proper leadership group and fast, but it is not Moerat and it is not Kolisi.

You must eb seerius living  in the past referring to Kolisi as a quota captain.   I t hought we passed the tage wher non-white players are re=garded as quota players.     Start thinking about wht players in fact produce irrespective of  their age or race and think about players be selected on merit in accodrdance of their performances,     

When a younger player being given enough opportiunities but still produce nothing - sucha  plaer should  be off  the option list - esecially when they are already 30or will be over 30.    .         

Kolisi a quota captain?

Fuck off King.

He has led us to 2 world cup titles.

He has represented our country on and off the field with so much pride.

He has played out his socks on so many occasions.

How can you call him a quota player?

Not to make this in to a big comparison post, but Pierre Spies got so much rave, yet he was half the player Kolisi is.

Spies was built like Tarzan but played like Jane.

Agreed Chip...the flack Kolisi take is just as much horse shyte as the nonsense against PSDT and DdA...not the best 6 in the world, but better than any other Saffa hopeful.

Which is why the team trusted him to run with the ball, the only thing he is good at, once in the WC knockouts.

For a black South African to be capped as a Springbok in a predominantly white Afrikaans-speaking sport, he needs to be a pretty good player.

For a black South African to captain the Springboks in over 60 tests, he need to be a world class player and an inspirational leader.

When that same black South African captains the Springboks to two successive RWCs and to have dull-witted couch-potatoes still grumbling about him being a quota, you just have to accept that some people are never going to see past the colour of his skin.

Siya, you are a Springbok legend and a nation-builder and your critics are just going to have to deal with the fact that you have carved your name in Springbok history. Your achievements speak for themselves and no amount of derogatory name-calling by small-minded and ignorant haters is ever going to cjhange that.

I say stick around and win us another one!

Rooinek Hall Of Famer
14,900 posts Sep 17, 2023, 17:55

 

I think this is a mistake but we'll see. Whatever else, Bongi becomes our most important player.

 

…..hahaha. Most important player who was gone in the first 10minutes of the final and the most important person turned out to be the man you called a  mistake.

Lots of wrapping in flag by Time Stamp, but who takes this pompous noob seriously.

 

 

 

Agreed Rooi he is a class act both as player and captain 

I’d take Siya over say a player like  Schalk as a player all day long 

Sorry what?

You’d take siya over schalk on playing ability?

hmmm David you just went down a bunch of notches son. That’s appalling. 

Yes better with ball in hand and as good defensively 

Siya all day long 

As good defensively?  After Jerry Collins ran over Corne Krige for the much of the WC QF in 2003, 20 year old Schalk came on and stopped him in his tracks. And his brilliance on the deck led to his World Player of the Year award in 2004.

Better than Kolisi at everything except open field running. Comparing the great Schalk with Kolisi is almost, but not quite as silly as comparing him with Luke Watson.

Well considering that competing for the ball on the ground was an unknown discipline back then I’m not sure how he could have been so good at it.

Schalk was a predictable crash baller, it was only once he moved and played for Sarries that we saw a more all round game 

Kolisi is without doubt as good defensively and far better with ball in hand 

Kolisi is better than Schalk who to be fair was never really equipped for openside 

Luke was a far better linking and attacking 6 than Schalk ever was 

Schalk was a hard man who played it hard, but Kolisi is more skilful 

Kolisi all day long for me and I rated Schalk 

Schalk was a great player in his time.

No need to compare the two.

But I agree the money laid out for Kaptein to return to RSA was way to high and paid out for what reason I might ask.

He could not make it in France according to reports and the Sharks laid out a fortune to get him back.............way , way out of line.

Kolisi is definitely not better than Schalk….he is a good runner and does make the necessary tackles, but overall he is overrated.

Kwagga or Van Staden can do the same job….

Young guys like Marcel Theunissen, Cameron Hanekom can surely do the same and better.

Kollisi is there as Erasmus favour’s him from the beginning already…..

He was groomed for this role as Captain and his image is more important, than his actual Rugby skill set.

We had John Smit with his glorious Bok career who at the time undoubtedly wasn't our best hooker (or prop) he he, but like Kolisi, he was a great captain. Chemistry.

John Smit was a Damm good hooker and a Captain that led by example.

John also managed mostly to play much longer than just 40 min.

Another comparison that is off…..

Complete and utter bullshit re Kolisi as per usual 

Could not make it in France - what utter crap

This board is a laugh a minute!

We have Rassie Erasmus winning back-to-back RWCs . . . but he's a crap coach.

We have Pieter-Steph du Toit winning two World Player of the Year awards . . . but he's a crap player.

Now we have Siya Kolisi captaining us to consecutive RWC victories . . . but he's a crap player and captain.

One wonders what the rugby noobs on here use to measure performance?

Liberals and their denial. Before the world cup, it was written on this board that would be no good outcome for SA rugby, if they lose, they lose, if they win, they win under the captaincy of a quota captain.

See how liberals are predictable. The guy is a legend, an outstanding player by the mere fact he is the first captain in rugby history to manage to lead a team in a back to back world cup history. The very fact he is quota in a rugby like SA rugby adds to his legend. He is taking advantage of his legend status as any liberal would do. Actually, maybe it could be questioned to know if a white player would not take more advantage of the status.

Were the Boks not losing all the knockout games when Kolisi left the field?

That's a pretty interesting stat.

He's been good for our game and has gotten some WCs in the bag, so it's difficult to fault the overall picture. In ten years' time, when we have another and even bigger wave of talent hitting the scene, it'll be the Kolisi's and Bongis of the world that we have to thank. I don't think he's ever been the best in his position, but you can't fault silverware. And honestly, he seems like a genuine guy too....granted there have been side chicks.

We could have done far worse than Kolisi. 

I drift between captains I'd like to see into the next WC, but Marx is always in the conversation for me. Perhaps Willemse, though I prefer the skipper to be a forward.

‘Well considering that competing for the ball on the ground was an unknown discipline back then I’m not sure how he could have been so good at it‘

What? You have never heard of George Smith or Neil Back.  If anything fetching was more focused in a few players in those days. Team wide fetching came later. In 2004 and 2005 before he hurt his neck Schalk was as good as any player on the deck.

Kolisi is probably playing his best rugby of his life right now for the boks, except for the sharks. He seems to like hitting players hard these days rather than when he needed to have people to tackle assist him. 

He still never puts his head down and get over the ball and always jumps away form the ruck.

He is not a bad player, his been good and some games, but not that many great. His best game probably was in the 2019 World Cup. 

But yes, every time he goes of the field, the boks seem to find their rhythm. That is because we actually have a proper fetcher coming onto the field in Marx, Kwagga and Deon Fourie and before that it was Francious Louw. 

Someone wrote on here that we are lacking a fetcher, that is true. If we don't have players that can get over the ball to slow down our win penalties we are in trouble. 

The boks were amazing when Heinrich Brussouw played. Probably the most under rated and under used player. He made 2009 happen for the boks. 

Kolisi also likes standing in the tram lines to run with the ball. Not a role for your opensider that should be hitting rucks and cleaning up. That is normally your number 7 which he is. He always played at 7 for the Stormers but was not physical enough to make Meyers squad and even Rassie use a big bruising 7 which he is not. 

You have to love Rooi Time Stamp. Before the RWC final in 2023 he shredded Eluckmiss. That was after the Boks had  already won a WC with him as coach  and the Boks were in the next final.

At that point he was awful….if we won the final it would be in spite of him rather than because of him.

Then with Pollard’s boot we defeat 14 man NZ without coming close to scoring a try and suddenly he is the man. And anybody who doesn’t see that is a ‘rugby noob’

Can anybody spot a shred of logic in his hissyfits?

Smith and Back did not compete on the ground - it was not a thing back then 

We never saw the jackal

Dave stop wasting my time…here’s Chat’s verdict:

’‘

Yes, George Smith was exceptional at fetching (now commonly referred to as "jackaling") during his illustrious career with the Brumbies and the Australian Wallabies. Smith was renowned for his breakdown skills, especially his ability to win turnovers by securing the ball at the ruck. He had an uncanny ability to anticipate play, get into strong body positions, and pilfer the ball from opposition players, often under intense pressure.

His low center of gravity, immense strength, and technique made him a nightmare for opposing teams trying to secure clean ruck ball. Smith's breakdown prowess earned him a reputation as one of the best openside flankers of his era, often mentioned alongside Richie McCaw and David Pocock when discussing all-time greats in the position.

Beyond just jackaling, Smith was a complete player—he had outstanding ball-handling skills, leadership qualities, and tactical awareness, which helped elevate his game far beyond just being a breakdown specialist.

Chat is speaking shit Moz - jackaling was not a thing back then 

This is it  folks….the battle at the end of all things. In the blue corner we have ChatGTP with access to every article or opinion on rugby ever written. In the pink corner, occupying the whole corner we have Dave, otherwise known as Listless.

Who is right…anybody remember George pulling off a turnover?

Openside Flanker: George Smith Tribute | Conversational Rugby

I remember Smith being such a menace opponents stopped running in his vicinity. These early fetchers Smith, McCaw, Back, Brussouw, Schalk were brilliant at the turnover. Centers that fetched would fit Dave’s hypothesis that it’s a more recent phenomenon.

I don’t give a fuck about Chat what I do know is that the art of effecting turnovers via the jackal is a very modern thing 

We certainly did not see the likes of Smith and Back jackaling in their day and that’s a fact 

Yes there would be the odd turnover effected but it was a very rare thing 

Dave this absolute nonsense….not even worth debating 

Unrelated but I just want to say, I love that you've become a Chat fan, Moz.

I hope you don't see this as some kind of subtle aggression, but it's actually inspiring to see an older guy take to a new technology like this so easily, and more so, to fully understand it and what its strengths and weaknesses are.

Plum it’s so much more accessible than the old days on the mainframe. Take your 50 punch card program to the data center….there are 50 jobs ahead of you. So you go away, come back 4 hours later and go to your assigned box.

There should be 100 pages of print out….but there’s nothing, just your punch cards. Your ‘do loop’ was incorrectly constructed.

One things for sure Chat knows a lot more about fetching history than Dave.

The last RWC was won with a Pollard's kick in the dying minutes of the final and not by  Erasmus or Kolisi.

In fact Pollard saved the Boks on more than one occasion with his kicking ability in this last RWC.

I am not knocking Kolisi, but at this stage of his playing career is not worth 17 million Rand.

He signed for the French club and benefited financially from the move to France but did meet the expectations of the club's management.

He made the final call to sign the contract not the Sharks,

There you go Dave….go to minute 6.48 and you will hear a description of Smith as a pioneer in turning ball over, and just for you, pictures of him (and others from the same period) actually making turnovers.

We certainly did not see the likes of Smith and Back jackaling in their day and that’s a fact 

Jeez Dave, that's what made Smith famous.

Smith was one of the hardest players to play against. I remember AJ Venter and the other flankers really got frustrated with him that resorted to betting one another who can get a piece of his dreadlocks. In the change room, AJ Venter reach for his pocket and pulls a big piece of dreadlock. 

The guy was machine and played the level of rugby for many years. He was part of that successful ACT brumbies team with Larkham and Mortlock to name a few. 

The wobblies would also beat the boks often. 

Look, Kolisi got mega rich with all of his sponsorship and signing up to ROC nation. He is the poster kid for AA or BEE, but does he bring real value? 

At 33 80+ test caps and the backing of Rassie that made sure he is protected.

The guy came off after 30 min with Eben because he was so kak that Rassie just went, I have to rescue the team and can't wait until half time. He then got yellow carded in the Final and also only played for 50 min. When he does play a full game the boks normally lose. Check out his stats minutes played and games won and lost.

He is so over rated in my book. 

But what irks me is that he has now become a moaning brat that has no shred of professionalism and always waiting for Rassie to bail him out or someone else. 

Now he wants to dump the sharks and go back to the Stormers with the same pay cheque. 

No thanks, let a younger guy get that chance and not some invisible fetcher 

Yes he turned the odd ball over for sure, I never said he did’nt but the art was nowhere near a prolific as today and the point was about Schalk who was certainly no turnover king 

I actually cannot believe the horseshit that some of you produce.

At least when i talk shit, it's humorous or at leasrt tongue in cheek. But most of you actually believe the shit you speak.

Kolisi has been amazing in so many ways! Just because he is black, it has left the debate open. He 200% deserves his place on merit. His captaincy has been superb! I can hardly fault him over his tenure.

MY OPINION... I think Schalk Burger is one of the best opensiders of all time. I do not want to compare Kolisi to him right now as Kolisi has not retired yet. 

Why can we not just say that they have both been amazing assets to Springbok rugby over the past 2 decades?