Elton Jantjies Rubicon moment this weekend

Okay, so Elton has been around the block a few times and by now should be peaking in terms of experience and ability. The one thing that keeps blogging him down is that he is choker and have showed time and again that he simply can't handle the pressure. If you look at his physical abilities, he is the same size as most kiwi 10's. Cruden, Carter, Mo'ugho etc. So he is not to small. He has the same ball skills. However, last weekend the flappable Jantjies returned. He was all over the place, kicking, passing etc. This weekend he we face the same Hurricanes team and pretty much 70% of the all black team. Jantjies has a chance to make a pointed once and for get his BMT sorted. This is Jantjies moment to prove that he has the goods to face the best and boss the game. I would not even bother investing in him at all either the lions nor the springboks if he fails. He simply have to prove himself. I would liken him to JP Duminy.

 Agree 100% with you here.   Would like to see what he produces - but am not confident at all.   Under pressure Jantjies virtually always looks ugly.   I am not goig to back the Lions this game and the reason is Jantjies and Mapoe.    

 Thanks Mike, I think that Johan Ackerman might have to make a brace choice and have am emergency training sessions this week to find alternative 10. Faf did well to break the game open agains the bum wolves but he is simply not a 10. Van der walt can do the job, but I think that they are a bit short in this department. 
Janjties can single handedly lose the game and he is simply a player I won't bet my life on. 
Mapoe is good in fits, but would like to see the like of Rohan and Vorster combine. 
The matchup would be interesting as I think that their are only 3 players in the lions squad the equals Hurricanes. Marx, Kriel and Rohan. 

My solution...have Combrink do the initial kicking....my bet is Jantjies' mental problems start with the place kicking. But either way I'd back him, the Lions rise or fall with Jantjies.

 kingcorn
 
Status: Bok regular 
Posts: 636Elton Jantjies Rubicon moment this weekend 
July 25, 2017, 18:43:50

Okay, so Elton has been around the block a few times and by now should be peaking in terms of experience and ability. The one thing that keeps blogging him down is that he is choker and have showed time and again that he simply can't handle the pressure. 

I agree blogging him down as a choker is one thing

 
We don't really have a choice but to play him.

Coach Ackerman has been a little short sighted in his selections at 10. It's not as though anyone else has been given sufficient game time to stake a claim for the Lions 10 jersey.

Jantjies is a constant in the team. Come rain or shine ... Jantjies is there ... no matter his mental state or run of form.

No proper thought was put in as a possible replacement. Who would replace him if he were to suffer a long term injury ... or a loss of form ... and how would that effect our expansive game style?

Where is Marnitz Boshoff?

Why haven't the Lions brought in someone to pressure Jantjies for his jersey?

Does he fill their quota requirements? Is that it?

This has come back to bite us on the ass.

 Indeed CC.
An injury to Jantjies would be an issue. MAybe they're comfortable that Coetzee, Combrink or Cronje could cover him. None of those are outright 10s though.
Any idea if new signings for 2018 have been made?

 
I'm not sure.

I'll bang on their door and try to find out.

'Where is Maakniks Boshoff'.........waaaaaaaaaaaahhahha!

Same place as Useless Morne and Fat Fransie is.  

 And what about Fat Alberts mike?
Is he off your hate-list now?

I'd back Jantjies.
I tend to agree with Moz.... let Combrink  start as kicker.
I feel that may be where Jantjies may have lost his confidence on Saturday.

 
His confidence went first ... and with it everything else including his kicking.

 Boshoff was actually quite decent last season when stepped into cover Janjties. Lions lost nothing when he was injured. 
Jantjies has always been frail on defence, but he also doesn't like to get tackled either. You just have to look at last years final when I think Ben Franks was running at him on his own goal line to put pressure on the his clearing kick, he looked up and simple lost all sense. He gets flustered really easy. 
The minute he senses that somebody is 10 meters away from he loses all control and starts to cower. 
A good example of a smallish 10 not taking a step back is Johnny Wilkonson. That guy use to put his body on the line and wasn't afraid of anything. 
He needs to man up e 

 kingcorn
 
Status: Bok regular 
Posts: 637RE: Elton Jantjies Rubicon moment this weekend 
July 26, 2017, 17:16:59

The minute he senses that somebody is 10 meters away from he loses all control and starts to cower. 
A good example of a smallish 10 not taking a step back is Johnny Wilkonson. That guy use to put his body on the line and wasn't afraid of anything. 
Ay. Juan Smith got a lot of accolades for the try in this clip but how important was the pass that Wilkinson got away in the face of being on the verge of being tackled into the ground?:
https://youtu.be/P3KoSSrzseU

And then to put the cherry on the cake, he got up after that tackle and cool and calmly landed the very difficult conversion kick.

 Thanks Ceradyne, great clip. yep. The guys was complete under pressure but manage to get a long crisp pass out. None of this, oh Sh*T time to bail nonsense. Jantjies can be the best atccking player in the world but he is not worth it. Simply doesn't like to be tackled. 
We have to ask ourselves question of players. Is this the best 10 in the world or one of the best. Then the simple answer is no. 
Lets stop comparing our own players against one another but rather look at what other teams have and whether our player is the best. 
I know that we are a bit in short supply right now with all the injuries. But lets look at the following players and ask if Jajtines is better than them or at least their equal
Bauden BarrettAaron CrudenFordFarrelCooperBernard FoleyKurtley BealSexton

Not even close to any of those, kingcorn.

Elton is at least as good as George Ford. He's not far off Quade Cooper (in his current form) either.

When last did anyone see Kurtley Beale at flyhalf?

 Jantjes has had a good season. The coach potatoes here don't seem to understand that sports people  have off days. The proof of what I am saying is where has the criticism of Jantjes been this year? All the coach potatoes have been very quiet. In fact the comments have been how much steadier jantjes has been. Hisd goal kicking has been pretty good from what I can recall. Now suddenly he is useless.
Give the guy a break and lets see how he goes on Saturday. The Lions cant change 10 now in any case.
I would like to see Rohan and Vorster at center and Faf at scrummie. 

Jantjies always has a good season with little or no critique.......until the crunch times arrive. During the rounds he does fine because there is time to rectify slip-ups but when it comes to make or break tokens and the pressure is on then that is exactly the point where the wheels start falling off. The times when a loss means the end of the road, that is.

 Ceradyne
As bad as Jantjies was on Saturday - even if he tried desperately he could never be as bad as Morne Steyn was. 

 How Jantjes plays depends to an important degree on his pack. The Lions are not a big pack and need to up their anti against the blowhard canes.

 Maybe so Mike... but we will have to wail till Jantjies has won THREE Super Rugby titles before we can accurately judge.

Very well said BokBF  

And then, BF, there is also the little matter of MS putting all of 30 odd points on the board to beat the ABs. Any chance of Jantjies emulating that?

No Ceradyne not in our lifetime.
For the record how many tests did Jantjies played in against the All Blacks and the Springboks have won?
CM or mozart perhaps you guys can update me....appreciated.

Elton has never paricipated in a win over NZ. He was in a winning team over Oz in Pretoria, but only came on as a last 10 minute sub. .. He was also in the Italian test as a sub for Lambie at minute 52, when we were leading by 5 points. .. Elton's best moments were in the home Super playoff games last year.

 In fairness to Jantjies he has not been playing on the strongest Bok teams so it would be harsh to make him accountable for the poor record of the Boks. As the team improves so will he.

@JW. This is the deal with Mike and MS. Every test involving MS was either lost because of MS or won despite MS. Any draws was also always a win that ended up in a draw because of MS. Even the one against the ABs where he was responsible for all the points, including the try, was despite him playing.

 Yes, CleverMike is remarkably consistent in his assessment of certain players

 

Ceradyne

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 6109 RE: Elton Jantjies Rubicon moment this weekend
July 27, 2017, 16:16:20

@JW. This is the deal with Mike and MS. Every test involving MS was either lost because of MS or won despite MS. Any draws was also always a win that ended up in a draw because of MS. Even the one against the ABs where he was responsible for all the points, including the try, was despite him playing.

This just about really puts it all into a nutshell

Mike is about as bad about MS as Beeno / Mike is about Matfield

Face it Mike's string of picks have been a series of damp squibs.....Goosen retired, Liggies somewhere on the planet, Stephanie on the bench, Lomp not even on the bench, Reinach a serial fumbler, Lambie a dead end, Jordaan still trying to put on weight.......none of them relevant. I guess that's why he is Middle of the Pack Mike.......waahahaha!

 Thank u mozart.

 And Morne - dropped in 2012, twice in 2014 and once in 2016 was a shining example that he was a success at flyhalf.   What a collection of dunces at on this site.  
Mozart's great support for De Jongh - going so far as to falsify statistical information  on him - is  legendary.  Every tome Jordaan played against De Jongh he made mince meat of the latter.
Goosen was last year the Player of the Year in France - Morne Steyn was the regular bench player of Stade  Francais.  So which of the two players are better?   

You are welcome Arthur.

 
The best chance so far for Jantjies to win a SR title is at hand.

We'll see if he's up to it.

Morne may have won a SR title ... but to be fair he had an amazing team around him.

Even an off form, panic striken, disbelieving Jantjies could have done that.

It in no way turns Morne "one dimensional" Steyn into a rugby great.

He is in the end still only a sharp shooter. That is all he'll ever be. 

CC as a lions fan I would love him to step up and shake the monkey off his back. As you say the title is theirs to loose this year. It is however well documented that when we get to the sharp end he becomes fragile. To say that he would have won those SR titles with the Bulls is a huge assumption and one that I do not agree with. in the 2007/9/10/ years the bulls scored 142 5 pointers which if Fkuing amazing if their 10 was one dimensional. It is however pretty handy to have a sharpshooter to convert all of those tries to get you to the final. This almost cost the Lions last weekend   
I am 100% not saying that MS is or has been the answer since 2013/14 but the amount flack he cops from the likes of m ike our resident rugby 'expert' is quite childish.  

@BokBf, in addition the figures you have mentioned, there is also the matter of the Bulls almost always having one of their outside backs as one of the top SR try scorers.

Tries are a product of territory.....nobody worked the sidelines better than Morne and with Victor dominating the lineouts it was a good formula. Morne wasn't an offloader....but his pass was long and crisp.

Morne was very good at his peak. The rules of the game did change, and the change did not suite his style of play. But as a tactical, reliable kicking 10 he was very effective. Much of the success of the Bulls and the Boks between 2008-2010 was due to him executing what was required of him perfectly. 
He is not a great, but what he did, he did brilliantly. 

@Bluebok. Which changes did not suit Morne? Ou Maaikie always harps on about the law changes in 2008 which, supposedly sunk Morne, The Bulls and ultimately SA. The reality, like you say, is that The Bulls played some of their best rugby post 2008 and they won two of their SR titles in that period. SA also won a TN title and beat the B&IL in that period. Many would argue that he is/was not great but many a critic outside of SA rated him very highly. Despite what his distracters might say, his records place him at the top end of the scale. As they say, a prophet is never honoured in his own country, or something to that effect.