Erasmus.....the mystique is gone

"clevermike

31390 posts

Listen Dofdoos - when an employee applies for retention after completion of his contract and that is refused he is effectively fired. I worked for many years as an HR specialist and that is the fact insofar as contract employees are concerned."

Oh wait. Now he has become an HR specialist as well. I too happen to have dabble into HR a bit and specifically contract administration but that is of no importance in this matter. You are clearly trying to wriggle yourself out of this one again but it is not that easy. What you are trying to say is that either HM was told, by SARU, to piss off before the end of his contract or that he asked them for an extension/renewal of his contract and they told him to piss of. Is that correct?

Now, instead of waiting for your reply, let me cut to the chase and say that neither of the above happened. Basically, all I'm asking for, is for you to show me some evidence that either of the above happened. If neither of the above happened then feel free to help me out, with the necessary evidence, of what else happened. How exactly did HM and SARU part ways?

Dofdoos

When did Erasmus "pissed off" without completing his contracts?  That is malicious indeed - you have no insight in his contracts,  He never breached his contract with SARU - the contract period expired  in 2016 and he then joined Munster,

The latter contract is the only one - which  had  a clause in it that was made public,    The clause provide for Munster releasing him from his contract if he is needed by SARU as Director of Rugby or SA coach,  Both parties agreed to that condition and it was not a contract breach at all.

The other two contracts were  not released.   Erasmus left the Cheetahs and joined the Stormers in 2008 - how was that a proven contract breach - no it can only be one if you have the contract and even in the one with the Stormers to prove such a breach.   What was the contract period with the Stormers?   We do not know.   What we know is that he moved from the Stormers to SARU in 2010.   Nobody knows whether SARU did not put pressure on the Stormers to allow for the change.   Erasmus was the Director of Rugby of the Stormers and became Director of Rugby of SARU  where he remained for 6 years.  

The only proven contract breach by any SA coach in recent years was by White.   He was mad about not getting the Aussie coaching job and gave a false reason for the breach.           

Did he see out all of his contracts, yes or no? Easy peasy.

He saw out the contract with SARU and very likely his contracts with the Cheetahs and Stormers as well.  

The contract with Munster had a specific clause allowing for his release if SARU needs him and that is what happened - not a contract breach at all.

As to Meyer he applied for extension of contract and it was refused and effectively he was fired,   You are absolutely clueless - don't prove it in public.    

A man once told us at a conference an amazing but simple thing...a truth that always works. It works in everything, business, professions, sport and virtually all else.

He said the trouble with us, is that we are RESULT orientated...we AIM at achieving results, points, scores, sums of money etc. We are taught to do this from an early age. This is seen by most as a good thing...it seems right.

BUT he went on to say...try to get rid of this thought

RATHER, JUST do the RIGHT THINGS and RESULTS AUTOMATICALLY FOLLOW.

In other words play good rugby and concentrate on playing the best you can then the results automatically will follow.

I believe this is powerful when used in the right context. It's often when we look at the results when they are not good, they can intimidate us and kill the fight to conquer but if continue giving our best the results will automatically pursue us. It appears a subtle difference but in reality vastly different.

I think that is the real secret of successful sportsmen and women...take that young Japanese lady who beat Serena Williams a few days ago, take Gary Player, take Danie Gerber.

Fear of results is negative and is like a gun held to our heads.

.

The Bokkies are now living in fear of results...if they go out on Saturday, play their very best and enjoy the game there will be less errors and more positive moves...the results will come.

(PS This is not saying that goal setting is bad ... it should be done to be successful but it SHOULD NOT BE THE DRIVING FORCE ....DOING THE RIGHT THINGS SHOULD BE THE PRIORITY and the RESULT and eventually Goal/s will automatically come.)

Seb

What you write s common sense and is 100% correct

In this case we are dealing with Erasmus here.   I believe Erasmus is an honest person who says what he thinks and that is what is expected from a coach.

Unfortunately some of our members h ates the truth - hence their attacks on him.    

That is true Seb, to an extent. I  S outh Africa we are told to ignore results for a process that may never work. We waste time. 

@Lügnerin: You and truth go together like a pack of dingos and children in a nursery. 

Mozart

I am so glad that we have a  mutual acquaintance in Gary Player

Player had a booked table in the restaurant at the Durban Race course,   We had a booked table about 3 tables away and I spoke to him a few times about raising.   He was joined a couple of times by Harry and Bridget Oppenheimer  at his table.

However, I do not know him well enough to make a character evaluation of him,   But then I am an honest guy and do not write tripe on sites like this

You played golf with him - were you a professional golfer too or just an arsereeper? 

Snarktwat you are too thick and shallow to understand this so do us all a favour and shut up and besides I was not addressing you...you miss the point and I never said that targets, goals and benchmark etc were not important.

You have a strong tendancy to read and quote things out of context and only see things you want to see and miss the point.

The Fantasy World of Mike Again

"Dofdoos

Meyer clearly indicated his intention to renew his contract and it was NOT renewed.  Are you going gaga and not recognizing these facts dunce? "

The press release from SARU

"Heyneke Meyer has advised SARU that he no longer wished to be considered as a candidate to coach the Springboks."

From press reports

"Heyneke Meyer will not seek a renewal of his contract to coach South Africa when his current deal expires on 31 December, the South African Rugby Union has confirmed."

"Heyneke Meyer has announced that he is not interested in having his contract renewed"

"Heynene Meyer will not seek to renew his Springbok coaching contract beyond its current period, meaning he has effectively resigned as Bok coach."

SPOT THE DIFFERENCE!

No Bullshit at best - Meyer came back form the world cup and said in public that it was a wonderful opportunity for the younger players he would like to coach in future.   He repeated that statement after he submitted his report on the WC early in December 2015.

 He submitted his report on the WC and when it was clear he would never be considered for an extension of contract he never aid anything more than the two statements he made about the future coaching shortly after his return to SA. 

You are so dim you grabbed unto an issue which SARU issued to allow Meyer to  save his face a bit,   If they said anything else - and confirm that Meyer failed as coach - his future coaching role would be in jeopardy - nobody would want an incompetent coach.  Everyone - but the most stupid dunces on site realized that.   Meyer realized like virtually everyone else that his days as coach would be short and he had no chance of getting a contract renewal.  He had no job lined up and was unemployed for months thereafter.   If he did not himself think he would remain at SARU would that be the case?   No stupid dunces Meyer was firmly set on remaining as Springbok coach and that turned out to be not to the liking of SARU,

But the incompetent Meyer  is not the real issue here - the slandering of Erasmus by the gang led by Mozart is the issue.   The dofdoos Ceradunce is the main one.  He has zero proof of any contract breaches by Erasmus - yet he continued with the stories the lying Mozart manufactured,   He was even worse in his statements than those of the habitual liar.         

No Bullshit at best - Meyer came back form the world cup and said in public that it was a wonderful opportunity for the younger players he would like to coach in future.   He repeated that statement after he submitted his report on the WC early in December 2015.

 He submitted his report on the WC and when it was clear he would never be considered for an extension of contract he never aid anything more than the two statements he made about the future coaching shortly after his return to SA. 

You are so dim you grabbed unto an issue which SARU issued to allow Meyer to  save his face a bit,   If they said anything else - and confirm that Meyer failed as coach - his future coaching role would be in jeopardy - nobody would want an incompetent coach.  Everyone - but the most stupid dunces on site realized that.   Meyer realized like virtually everyone else that his days as coach would be short and he had no chance of getting a contract renewal.  He had no job lined up and was unemployed for months thereafter.   If he did not himself think he would remain at SARU would that be the case?   No stupid dunces Meyer was firmly set on remaining as Springbok coach and that turned out to be not to the liking of SARU,

But the incompetent Meyer  is not the real issue here - the slandering of Erasmus by the gang led by Mozart is the issue.   The dofdoos Ceradunce is the main one.  He has zero proof of any contract breaches by Erasmus - yet he continued with the stories the lying Mozart manufactured,   He was even worse in his statements than those of the habitual liar.         

The only truth that we all know is that we all know actually zero...the only "truth" is what sports reporters spew out...have we seen the contracts?, do we know the people involved? do we trust reporters, no not really at best they use only half truths?

The answers are all negative...so why the issues...much ado about nothing...and yet we have the audacity to call each other liars...very funny indeed ! Bahahaha hahahahahahahaha

"You are so dim you grabbed unto an issue which SARU issued to allow Meyer to  save his face a bit,   If they said anything else - and confirm that Meyer failed as coach - his future coaching role would be in jeopardy - nobody would want an incompetent coach.  Everyone - but the most stupid dunces on site realized that."

FFS, ou Maaikie. Have you ever considered stand-up comedy? You should give it a go. Really.

No Ceradunce 

I am not a top world rugby analyst - as Mozart claims \he and his gang members are.   The fact is the type of clip  you posted above is so stupid - you should have realized that.

One must realize that some members dragged down the site to an unbelievable level of stupidity and you are one of the main ones at that,

Haha chaps!... have you seen yourselves on screen???

https://youtu.be/_9_Nw72ZpqU

Ja...Hahaha Cera that's exactly what happens here...the issues obviously are different but little issues start smoldering until a gust of hot wind blows over and the little smolderings turn into a blazing fire that nobody can put out...sometimes it's better to sit back and let it burn out...it does very occasionally but there are always a few coals glowing and then it just takes a little gust of wind (hot air...aka bullshit) and it turns into a blazing inferno...it's like the grass fires we have on the farm...a little spark sets alight again. LOL .

Mozart, Rassie is utilising a very similar system to Coetzee. There are some differences in the implementation, but from what I can see, Coetzee was the better attacking coach. I'm starting to think we were a bit hasty ditching Coetzee. 

Mozart

You are always saying you are so clever, but now you wrote the worst example of total ignorance ever.

*    All coaches are appointed on contract; and

*    Failure "to see things through" will always be a breach of the employment contract with serious legal implications  

There can never be a different legal interpretation on this aspect about the relationship between the employers and Erasmus.

For the world expert story under a previous thread you wrote that there are now a number of members who are such good rugby analysis experts that they can see things during games not seen by experts in the rugby world.   

I really find it difficult to believe that you do not realize the implications of what you write on site.

Listen  Mozart

The biggest idiot ever is spinning out of logic totally,    The above is absolute BS writing since he has no idea about on what basis Erasmus was appointed by the various employers,

The only one where there was clarity in the contract was totally disregarded by him trying once again to spin out of  the hole he created for himself and the hole is getting bigger.

I do understand the position you are in here - you routinely write .unproven BS on site and the present one is really no different from normal in your case.   Without knowing what really was the conditions of employment how can you write "A series of half fulfilled assignments....none of which ended with him in breach. All of which he ended early"?

If ever there were total contradiction  in one paragraph the above is it,   He did not breach any contract - but he ended employment early.   How the hell can those two statements be reconciled,   It is either a contract breach - or it is not,   If his contracts have run out and he decided not to renew such a contract, does Erasnus not have the right to leave employment and go to another employer?  That would set a new principle in motion insofar as contracts of employment are concerned - no coach is allowed to leave a job he has been contracted to do - he must renew the contract or if he leaves he is deserting!!!!!!!!

For a change please stop writing BS on site.     

O hell - Mozart and co wanted Erasmus fired and now he has done something Meyer has never  achieved - his team beating NZ for the first time since 2008 in NZ.  

And what happened with their doom forecast and the total attack on Malherbe, Du Toit and De Allende as well?   I am still waiting for Mozart to find something he can blame\the three players have done wrong.  

I have to wait for a longer time - since the script Mozart and co always wrote in advance now needed review.   Obviously Malherbe was belly-flopping all the time - so he should  have a start here as well!!!!!

Moz just got the ti tle wrong. see my correction on another thread.

Lügnerin, Damian was smoked on defence. He had one or two standard carries and held up an All Black - Whiteley provided the stopping power. He was one of the worst player on the field. 

Listen dim fool

I rated him honestly in this case.  Your misleading comments will not help since you are too much blinded by prejudice.

I gave him exactly the rating of Houwing - so I would rather go on fact than BS fiction created by you and your fellow idiots.    

Listen dim fool

I rated him honestly in this case.  Your misleading comments will not help since you are too much blinded by prejudice.

I gave him exactly the rating of Houwing - so I would rather go on fact than BS fiction created by you and your fellow idiots.    

It's a fact. He got beaten so badly he was almost parallel to the ground. He looked like a banner attached to that All Black. You can notch that try up to him, as he was the entry point. Yet again. He was hopeless.