……for Dud Allende:
‘It’s like playing Manu [Tuilagi] this weekend. He probably does exactly the same. You never know when he is going to put the ball out the back or carry, what he is going to do. You are always thinking about two or three things instead of just knowing this guy is coming hard and straight. Then it is easy, you can just man up and tackle him. But as soon as a player has that skill set and ability to do more than one thing, that is when it gets tough.’
You can be predictable if you're good enough at something. A genuine powerback, like Nonu and Kerevi, can beat your defensive line and wear it down if it doesn't crumble immediately. But, the ability to get the ball out, to change the point of attack, that's what separates an average team from a great one. Our team on attack and defence is very solid when things are predictable, but not so much when facing something with any level of dynamism. Our defence against offloads and line breaches looks tier 3, like schoolboys shell-shocked in the face of a level if play they've never seen before. On attack, Josè doesn't like anything unpredictable. The blueprint is all about putting the ball at x through y and so on. Ball control. Our phase play is exceedingly static. Esterhuizen himself offers us that dynamism. Immense power with subtle skill. This omission, as well as the reluctance to elevate RG, it really exposes Josè. Damian is as he always has been, but I can't blame him for being called up. He isn't an unknown quantity.
I must also reference Spies on this topic. A very solid overall player, but lacked the Big Joe pass that frees himself up. One of Joubert's tries in his All Black hat trick was the result of Big Joe causing havoc off the back if an attacking scrum. It's no coincidence that Nonu became more effective and solidified when he sharpened up his passing game.
It’s quite a commentary on our rugby that a forward like RG is a better offloader than any current Bok back.
The ban on offloading started under Meyer already...it's not the ability of the players, they're being dissuaded to do it for some reason. DdA had a good enough offload before he started playing for the Bokke...
Meyer actually built the most fluid and dynamic attack of the professional era. There was no ban on offloads. He just wasn't stupid enough to have us play recklessly against the best defence in the world, which was Wales. Many Saffers, who quite commonly know nothing about rugby, prescribed getting the ball out wide and offloading, even after witnessing Wales shut down Australia, which was the most explosive offence in world rugby at that time! Low andd behold, the very first wide play was through Damian, he gets turned over and Wales run it back a long way to about an inch of the try line.
Look at the numbers (I've already posted them countless times). The ban on offloading began under Josè. I still laugh at the imbeciles who thought Schalk was playing flyhalf. They will never be able to grasp how embarassing that is.
Come now Draad, Vermeulen got us into the WC semi’s with an offload against Wales. Francois Louw released Habana in the 2013 super match against the ABs with a brilliant offload. Schalk was offloading big time under HM.
This is where it gets embarrassing: We offloaded 27 times in the abridged 2015 RC, but only 14 times in a full tournament this year. Defenders beaten? 65 in 2015, 75 this year; Clean breaks: 19 in 2015 and 10 this year.
"Come now Draad, Vermeulen got us into the WC semi’s with an offload against Wales. "
And he said on the live post match interview that he knew he would be in trouble for it...go and watch the post Japan matches again...most one dimensional the Boks ever played...less kicking but it was ruck pass ruck, 2 passes ruck, one pass ruck....effective but ugly as League.
I am not a Meyer basher, but he definitely didn't live up to expectations...following in Snôr's foot steps might have made him look a bit better than he actually was...Alistair was better than his results...his poor selections sinked him, but we are way better now than we've been in a long while and it took Rassie one season to fix things...and he didn't change much, just the important stuff, just enough...Covid set us back a bit, but we'll get there...go ask the Allblacks.
"This is where it gets embarrassing: We offloaded 27 times in the abridged 2015 RC, but only 14 times in a full tournament this year. Defenders beaten? 65 in 2015, 75 this year; Clean breaks: 19 in 2015 and 10 this year. "
Indeed, but we lost against the Allblacks, Australia and Argentina...25-37 against the Argies in our back yard...the stats that actually count.
The stats that actually count?
"The ban on offloading started under Meyer already."
Why can't you Plastiks ever stay on point? You want to discuss performance and when beaten, avoid the information by any means possible. New Zealand were stronger, Australia were stronger, Argentina were stronger in 2015. Yet, we would have beaten Australia were it not for Damian. Singlehandedly lost that game. New Zealand? It came down to a controversial lineout play. The performances were better. That's the bottom line. Those were teams who could handle the high ball. Not post-lockdown jitters. This is the worst iteration of the Boks in all the years that I have been alive. Even with obscene ref bias, they still come out losers.
PS: Damian's squirts were far from excellent. The comparison to Sonny Bill is rather stupid considering the vast difference in technique and application. One a pretender and the other effective. For all of Damian's squirts out wide in space, the Stompie attack was still bottom of the pile on attack. How can that be if he is creating opportunities via offloads, putting runners into space and getting over the gainline as a premier powerback? The questions that the Plastiks can never never see much less answer. All revealed by the film. It begins and ends there. I try to encourage it, but the Plastiks never listen. So falleth bitter tears as the veil of Dumkopfery is torn.
Go watch the post match interview with Vermeulen after the Welsh match before you chalenge my statement...
And I said it started under Meyer, I didn't say it was worse under him. I said Damien had a proper offload before he played for the Boks...which of these facts are you disputing?
We lost at home against the Argies and we lost to Japan in the same year...was Japan also better in 2019 ? How did they do against Scotty and Ire back then?
"The stats that actually count? "
The most important stats are "the points for" vs "the points against", not so?
"And I said it started under Meyer, I didn't say it was worse under him."
It started under him, yet was higher than that of both of his predecessors? In fact, you have to go back to Mallett's disastrous second half of his Boks tenure to find a time where the Boks were offloading at the same rate or higher. You clearly don't do any research.
"I said Damien had a proper offload before he played for the Boks..."
No he didn't. He was actually technically raw. He was an inferior player in his earlier years, until Meyer carved out a role for him as a subpar basher in 2015. That became the model of utilizing him ever since after Damian failed to excel in the sophisticated attacking model Meyer implemented in the RC (note who followed who; José following Meyer and not the other way around).
"which of these facts are you disputing?"
You haven't produced any facts as of yet.
"The most important stats are "the points for" vs "the points against", not so?"
You cannot stay on the subject you injected into this thread. You want to talk performance to assess the value of a coach, but then you stray from it. Is that because when the facts are laid on the table, they don't support your position? I can already see that there is very little research in your thinking and a lot of opinions peddled by the media. If you follow the media, you'll continue to lose these exchanges.
"You want to talk performance to assess the value of a coach"
No, I don't. I merely made an observation about the tendency of the Bok couches to dissuade the offload...and you are correct, that I didn't do research, but my opinions aren't shaped by the medea, it's from my own observations...and you can ignore the facts you don't like just as much as you want, it won't make them go away.
Have you watched the post match interview with Thor yet? The one after the Wales scrape through win in 2015? At your earliest convenience.
Yes some ofoads are great when done well and intelligently. Nothing Allende can't do.
I note though that the wee abs, great at offloads, lost their last test to the non offloading Boks.
Mozzzzz tries to blow this up out of all proportion to get a dig in against Rassie it seems.
Hahahahaha Moz reminds me of the terminator who grinds on against all obstacles.
Amazing game Xavi, Bristol 21 points to Harlequins zero at half time and then in second Quins turned it around and thumped them... thanks to yes Andre Esterhuizen, Tyrone Green and Marcus Smith.
Smith is incredible and there will be an outcry if he is not in England squad.
The ‘direction is to set up phases’…..raaaaaight! And what comes after the 3 or 4 phases, Raaaaaaaaight….da box kick.
You offload because timed well it breaks up the defensive line, it’s not something dictated to you….it’s part of your rugby DNA.
Having offloading as part of your skill set doesn’t mean other skills have to be eliminated. It just gives you more weapons.
Erasmus coaches offloading out of the game….but a few players still have the instinct and produce it when it’s called for, Am for example.
Our attack very, very rarely goes beyond 2 phases. And when it does it is very static. Width without gaining ground punctuated by a kick, turnover or penalty.
There is plenty of footage of our backs like DA, Am etc offloading
From 2015?
The Boks have never been expansive or particularly effective attacking under Josè. Pick any test and it can exposed for the same underlying flaws. The only thing that changes is the opposition and how well they exploit it. From game 1 to the present. Don't kid yourselves that this Bok team has been anything but a limping mess.
That is the ceiling of what they can do. 4 wins against top 5 opposition in 36 tests, bottom of the pile for production in every tour/tournament under José. The laboured "attacking" game against Australia was all this team had to give. That's why they went straight back to the boot and set pieces against New Zealand. Beating an errant All Black side by the skin of their backsides who played an uncharacteristically inaccurate game is hardly something to brag about. New Zealand will improve, they have a high ceiling; we do not. As always, the Plastiks can't defend their assertions. It's too easy too often.