Ethan Hooker Springbok Material... What Position?

Our Hooker is a beast of a man at 118kg, twice the size of Karl Marx, but less of a philosopher

Dave - You noobs don't understand that the modern test 12 has no space to make magic. Everything is so tight and so difficult and so terrible...and that why we have to play DDA at 12 and it is also why DDA never creates anything at 12.

Also Dave - I want Willemse to play 12 for the Boks because he can sidestep and I want razzle dazzle at 12 and magic and rainbows and unicorns.

So, Dawid...is there or is there not space in the modern game for a 12 that can create to create?

Plum

I do know some people do not see what they do not want to see. T be guite frank I have seen on even the above video posted by Draad making line breaks leading to scoring of tries and score tries beating defenders himself. So he does see opportunities that Esterhuizen enver see and uses, De Allende alwaysseems to be in the right place at the right time - for exampe in the Aussie test last year Where Sacha made a clean line reak against the Aussies and we know he is a fast runner - where he passed the ball to De Allende who drew the defenders in and passed the ball to Reinach ho scored under the post. The same type of thing happened in 3 matches against the AB's where he himself scored tries by being in the right place at the right time.

That comes down to reading of the flow f the game and that is where Esterhuizen always failed and that is the reason why in 22 tests he .scored no tries, The abiliy to forse ee the ball went and what opportunities comes from two things - the first one being shpown by Sacha as being a natural instincted player and through experience and good coaching. Hoker is young and n ot a natural like Scha and woih good coaching he wuld learn if coached properly and end up in the ssame scenario where De Allende is at present, Matter of fact in most matches this yer he as played on the wing and not at center - so it is not clea whether he would learn anything nearly good enough to play at 12. Dave calls it the X factor - I call it poor selecion and coaching. If Hooker has a decent coach he would play at 12 enoughtime to learn what is best for a 12 to use to maximum advantage. The lattger is what Estehuien has not been able to do after 22 tests and accounts for his inability to score tries himself and his inability to effectively made triescoring inevitable. AIso it does ot mean passing or even kicing the ball - it requires the need to make a more positive contibution.than Esterhuizen has not done.

I saw it clealy on aturday - in the first hal the Sharks backline struggled to make an impact on a substadard opposition backline. and it as lear that while Masuku kicke balls away and Esterhuizen crshballed ineffecively - the Sharks backline was not functioning effectiely. In fact the Backline was functionng better in the secnd half of he match while Esterhuizen was playing at 7.

It would be in the interest of Hooker to learn the real trade of playing at 12 - something he dooes not get enugh opportunities at the Sharks to do, I would like to see him play at 12 - but the Sgharks have a problem - they ahve Eserhuizen on their books and needs to use him - and that negatively impact on the development of Hooker at 12,

I see a situation where i time the wings and full back willin the main be players of color and Sachas helps for Wite players in that backline - Rassie has the predicament of playing the right players in the right positions. Where there are two or more competitors in place that shows ability of equal value the position would always go to playes of Color and not the White players, I also think that if Hooker playing most of his matches forthe Sharks on the wing would be a good 13 and even at 12 - but he did not play in the 12 positon enough times to really stake his claim n the no 12 positio. Willemse on the other hand has similar attributes to acha as an instinctive player - and that resents a problem for Hooker.as to development as a player.

So in sumamry there is no way Esterhuizen at 31 years of age after years playing for the Springboks will develop further than he is at present and that is I believe Erasmus and his coahing members will not select Estehuizen to play at 12 for the Spngboks im future, i think that as proved in the past tere is no way Estehuizen will develop furthe as a test player. Hookers' development ould be much improved f he played at center and not on the wing. - but Esterhuzien is in his way as t center play n franchise level and that is where Hooker's development at 12 would eb ejpardised, That is why I thougt he would make a good 13 - but that is being jeopardized in the case of the Sharks with playing JJ at 13.

To summarize - Hooker des not play enough at 12 on franchise level t grointo a really good 12 and while Esterhuizen is around he would not get such an oppotunities inm eh Shark to develop as a 12 and that could impact on his future development as a player in the 12 position.

. , . . . . ,

Mozart

As far as I know - most of the site members were kids or not even borne when The Sting came out as a movie 50 years ago, So it is qute unlikely for them to have seen The Sting when it came out, However, it betraye your age if you saw it in the 170's. It further bertayed or rather confirm your age by claiming everybdy saw it. LOL

for exampe in the Aussie test last year Where Sacha made a clean line reak against the Aussies and we know he is a fast runner - where he passed the ball to De Allende who drew the defenders in and passed the ball to Reinach ho scored under the post

Against Australia? In 2024? Reinach didn't score against Australia last year.

All these players mentioned but vokall about the almighty new game-plan which now must surely revolve around our Zuluman at 10 .. our new sangoma. Who knows, 12 might hardly see the ball, instead there'll be more running , kicking, skip passes, bollamakiesies or chips.

The Boks will have to shift their game if someone like Willemse gets 12. We've been using our 12 exclusively as a battering ram since 2015. Willemse will be wasted as a battering ram. So it's DDA and Esterhuizen going forward unless there comes a shift towards employing a distributing, playmaking 12 in the Jordie Barrett mold. Even Hooker will fit the current style better than Willemse - big, strong, direct.

Or Roos.

Ye he did - Sacha made the intitial break and De Allende got the ball from him and passed it to Rinach who scored the try. Go back and checked your facts in that case. it was also featured n the video posted abut the b tries scored last year, It happened after Reinach came from the ebnch last year.

S as I stated beore - some people do not an to see positicves in players - so you did nt ant to see what ahppened in the case of scoring of that try.

Hpoker filing that n 12 role will nly happen if he gets ore games at 12 than he got more pporuniieds to play at 12 for the Sharks in future and that would not happenm with dumbbe preferred by the Sharks in that position,

Here are Reinach's test tries since 2021:

2021

Georgia - 1

Argentina - 1

2022

Italy - 1

2023

Romania - 3

Tonga -1

2024

Argentina - 1

I've checked my facts. Now go check yours. Otherwise give me a time stamp for this try and the game in which it happened so I can look at it.

Well of course we will have to change the way we play with Willemse at 12

We can’t rely on DA and AE for much longer given their ages especially DA

Hooker is all of 2kg heavier than Willemse so can’t see him making that much difference physically

Not that easy, Dawid

You said that no 12s in modern Test rugby are flair type players because the game doesn't allow for it any longer.

So, is modern test rugby too tight or is it not too tight?

Don't chicken out now.

See the following video on the potential team selection for the match at the end of June match a gainst the Barbarians:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMr9rC9kgOk

Some vey bvious and realisitc selections so what shoul look like, In essene I agree with the discussed team.= bar for Etzebeth who due ti his inury probles and wi;ll be used in the Barbaras game add Moerat - dumb as he is - as captain of the team,

"Ye he did - Sacha made the intitial break and De Allende got the ball from him and passed it to Rinach who scored the try. Go back and checked your facts in that case. it was also featured n the video posted abut the b tries scored last year, It happened after Reinach came from the ebnch last year."

Ou Maaik is talking crap again. I can confirm that Cobus Reinach did not score against the Wallabies last year, nor did he come off the bench in a test match against Australia.

We played 2 tests against the Wallabies in 2024. The first was on 10 August in Brisbane where Cobus Reinach started the game but didn't score. The second was on 17 August in Perth where Cobus Reinach didn't play at all.

The only test try Cobus Reinach scored in 2024 was against the Pumas and Sacha didn't play in that game so goodness alone knows what the stubborn old fool is babbling on about.

I love how ou Maaik tells others to "go back and checked their facts" when - even after being corrected - he hasn't got the respect for his fellow posters to bother checking his own "facts".

Ou Maaik is wrong yet again . . . but we know that neither of the Grumpy Old Men can ever admit they made a mistake . . . even when everyone else can see what dicks they're making of themselves.

I’ve said all along that if any player might be able to implement a different approach at test level at 12 it’s Willemse

Its a tough call given the lack of space and that the default test 12’s are built like tanks for a reason but Willemse might just be able to do it given his attacking flair and robust nature

He is gifted and likes to throw his body about

Will he succeed who knows but he is the player to give it a go

Jordie Barrett for NZ is not your crash ball type, more of a creator and it’s that lack of physicality which might account for him being very effective but not the finished article

Willemse is more in your face and robust plus individually more creative

I hope we get to see him given a crack at 12 as the other options we have coming through would give us solid - I want more

I see now Dawid..

So you're saying that you were wrong previously when you said everybody else was rugby ignorant for thinking that crash ball isn't the only way to play at 12?

Meaning 12s can create, there is space, and having a 12 like DDA that never creates, hardly ever passes and basically just runs straight into the first defender isn't what we should have been doing?

Or are you just, yet again, making up "facts" as you go?

Fuck me Plum are you really this stupid?

Where did I say that creativity at 12 works and that playing it directly like DA does so effectively is not the default huh?

Geez man wake up - read what a said again

But here is a repeat in short - I said if any player might be able to deviate from the default then it is Willemse. Why him - because he is both creative and physical, but ascribes to creativity ahead of crashing it up.

I said it would be worth giving him a shot - will it work - who knows

So yes damn right posters are ignorant as fuck if they think space is aplenty at test level and that most 12’s are the creative type, attacking space at will and that I was completely wrong saying that the likes of DA, AE, Tuilagi , Kerevi, Aki, Tuipolotu, Danty or Lawrence are all built like tanks and are selected for a reason

Soooo bloody obvious