For the All Blacks 30 is the new 25....

......brags a NZ journalist. Supposedly these ABs are  like teenagers out there. They can't wait for the next game. Let's take a look at some of the oldies:

Oldest All Blacks starting XV, v Australia at Auckland, August 6, 2011
Mils Muliaina (31), Sitiveni Sivivatu (29), Conrad Smith (29), Ma'a Nonu (29), Hosea Gear (27), Dan Carter (29), Piri Weepu (27), Kieran Read (25), Richie McCaw (30), Jerome Kaino (28), Ali Williams (30), Brad Thorn (36), Owen Franks (23), Keven Mealamu (32), Wyatt Crockett (28).

 

Last year some these players were already ancient and while there's no denying the ABs have able replacements eg Dagg who supplanted Mils before the RWC.....some of these guys are still key to the effort.

Can Smith, Nonu, Gear, Carter, McCaw and Kaino make the next RWC?  And if not, can NZ win without them, are fair questions. We could make a few points.

South Africa's equally experienced team probably peaked in 2009 and then started to show wear and tear in the 2009 YE tour, followed by a clear decline. Players like Victor were still our best, just not at their best. Can NZ's medical system accomplish what SA's didn't? I doubt it.....after all the first heart transplant was in Cape Town not Christchurch.

Secondly this NZ team may , like SA,  be at it's best in the aftermath of a RWC win (the Boks should also have dominated 2008 but that was the year PdV was allowed to try his ideas). Which masks the fact that they were not that convincing under pressure, when guys like Carter and McCaw were considerably younger eg the 2007 RWC. So one has to ask, even if they find stellar replacements for the Old Guard, will they be ready for RWC pressure in 2015?

To me it's seems likely NZ will experience exactly what the Boks did....a very competent old guard, still the best available, but just not "what they once were" to misquote Tennyson.

Into that breach may ride the renewed Boks......not yet fully experienced.....but benefitting from 4 years as an essentially new team. I like what we did on this YE tour. Add just a whiff of backline software and this team could be very dynamic.

Meantime it's going to be fun watching NZ fans and NZ journalists denying the obvious....the ABs are dying on their feet.

Here we go again! How long have you Yarpies been trying to convince yourselves that the All Blacks are too old and will be useless by "next year"? Two decades and counting?

What a load of shite! Here's the AB side that took the field against Wales last weekend:

15 Israel Dagg 24

14 Cory Jane 29

13 Conrad Smith 31

12 Ma'a Nonu 30

11 Julian Savea 22

10 Aaron Cruden 23

9 Aaron Smith 23

8 Kieran Read 27

7 Richie McCaw 31

6 Liam Messam 28

5 Sam Whitelock 24

4 Luke Romano 26

3 Owen Franks 24

2 Andrew Hore 34

1 Tony Woodcock 31

Only one player over 31 years old. Doesn't look too old to me. Youngsters like Beauden Barrett (21), Dane Coles (25), Tarewa Kerr-Barlow (22), Brodie Retallick (21); Sam Cane (20) and Charlie Faumaina (25) have all been capped this year. All looks in good shape for the future if you ask me.

You Yarpies should wait until you actually beat the All Blacks before you start bragging about how you're going to beat them "next year" . . . because you say that every year!

Actually I'm only a former Yarpie. Since then I have been a Greek,  twice a Pom and three times a Yank. And so on the substance I'd say....you are Whistling Dixie. But being from Missouri on this I think the proof of the pudding lies with your geriatrics.

Moz I think the abs will last longer than the Boks. Its very simple - they manage their players and we dont - hence 30 is the new 25 etc. However we may have started a new ball game with the central contracting of 12 Boks etc.

Personall I believe the abs will make their repalcements pretty seemlessy as they normally do but it is of course open to question whether the new talent will be as good or better than the old - we shall see. I cant see cruden being better than Carter for example but time will tell.

The salient point to me is that we have superb talent at present and coming through as well. We also have a very low skills base re attack so we can improve a  heck of a lot.  We are a raw side with little finesse.

Now if you considr we chomped up the abs in Dunedin with all these deficiencies one begins to realise that the future belongs to the Boks or really it should. The crux of the matter is will we manage our player properly, select on merit and have the right coaches looking after the Boks. Also extremely important with the Super 15 franchise sneeds be subservient t othe needs of the Boks. The top priority for NZ is the abs - everything is geared to seeing they perform optimally. 

NZ are right - we are WRONG. We must face the FACTS. As it stands we are battling on a loosing ticket.

All this is NOT rocket science its so obvious that it is painful to see how wrong we are getting it. However it appears the wind sof chang emay just be starting to blow. Rassie raised the whole issue of central contracting. Meyer backed him up. Now I hear 12 core Boks will be on central contract. GREAT NEWS. It will be grea tnews the day Meyer announces the appointment of a top attack coach.

Hasbeen the theory is sound....but I'm just not sure that we play more rugby.....do you have any numbers?

I also think the Abs have a shot at doing this better, but mostly because I think they have greater success ratios with their new talent. And don't rush their players. Compare Cruden to Goosen, who I think has already been damaged.

LOL!

Moffie gets pwned by ka Mate so then he tries to turn it into a discussion about nationality.

This kind of humiliation is what happens when someone with a very superficial knowledge about a subject tries to sound like an expert on a global platform like the internet.

 Would that be pawned or owned......man you must have fat fingers......bwaaaahaha.

Problem is that the list provided left out some older players like Dan Carter - really the regukar and pput in cCruden for instance.  Problem is that you must actually add nearly three years to the ages of the players and then the result does not look so good.   McCaw turns 32 on 21 December 2012 - but the others were all borne earlier in the year,  

In general I think the prime playing ages for rugby players are between 25 and 30 years of age.   Thereafter decline sets in and decline levels increase virtually by the month.   Injuries become more frequent and recovery periods take longer.  

Hore weill be 37 - Smith, McCaw and Woodcock will be 34 - Nonu 33 - Carter and Jane 32 - Messam 31 

That means that all of 8 current All Blacks would be 31+ years bythe time the WC come around.   That is exactly what happened to SA after the 2007 WC - the core of the team got past their sell-by date.   The following made up the core of the team that fives them a winning edge:-

   *    Smith, McCaw. Woodcock, Nonu, Carter

The other two are really not up to standard

  *  Hore is not a key player - but is still ahead of the next one in line for hooker - they really are thin in that position

  *   Messam is a very average loosie - and erains his place because of a dearth in other candidates   

It is likely that all of the above will have to be replaced by 2015 - irreaspective of ho carefully they are managed.

Now look at he remainder of the players in the team:-

  *  Dagg - the top full back in the world at present

  *  Savea - Blows hot and cold - scorres many tries - but messes up an equal number 

  *  Cruden - good flyhalf - but easily rattled - against good opposition not really star quality

  *  A Smith - very solid and will not ler his team down

  *   Reid    Very good - but can be a penalty machine

  *   Whitelock and Romero - Good locks in the Mattield style - run like centers - but cannot take the strain in tight games and in tight situations.   Reason  - for instance resistance in driving mauls.

  *  Barrett - the All Black equivalent of Earl Jantjies 

None of the above are really matchwinners - they rely very much on the older players to pull them through.    Without the older core players the team will still be a good team - but I believe no world beaters 

The young crop of players coming through are there - but the question remains - how good are they?   If we take the past Super 15 series - there are indeed signs that the New Zealand teams are not what they used to be.   They managed to get two teams in the top 6 on the  log  - a decline in whay they used to be on the log.

I am not saying it would be impossible for the All Blacks to win in 2015  - I am saying it would be very - very difficult for them to win the next WC

Whoa, looks like someone isn't up on his jargon. I thought a pre-teen like you would have known the word "pwned", Moffie. Type it into Google and you'll get over 11 million hits.

I'm guessing the spellchecker is feeling pretty stupid now?

ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!

Jalap

For your information - this is a rugby forum, not a typing class, dumb bunny  

"Clever" Mike, would you like to go over this thread again and see who was turning it into a typing class?

Let me know when you've worked it out!

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!! Another idiot gets pwned!!!

"Would that be pawned or owned......man you must have fat fingers......bwaaaahaha."

Jalap Moffie

For your information - this is a rugby forum, not a typing class, dumb bunny .

Too funny!!!!!! LMAO!!!!!!!

A long and stony silence followed.......

ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I actually agree with Beeno. The ab's can play players till their early to mid 30's and still have them contribute because of the management of them. Nonu is 30 but is still one of the best 12's out there. Smith does not play like he's 31, and the pace and energy that Mccaw plays the game at makes me wonder if he's even 31 years old.

I think The style of play they have also is a direct result of this. Passing and running is a lot less harder on the body then making one pass, and then running into the first tackler you see.

been away too long only to come back and find a feast of things for me to comment on, but i almost shit a brick in shock after reading my brus ben10s comments, brycy did u discover ben10s password and comment under his name, a bit too much sense was made in that post and the last time i checked, ben10s one logic comment per year had already been used up, something is a foot, o_O

and i couldnt help laughing at pwanged comments, very similar to chips olympic comments which i bungeld up and had flashdakota correct, :oP

anyway in regards to mozzie thread, beeno pretty much summed it up, but if u take a look at 2012, All Black players had played just as many games the Bok players up to the end of the IRC, the only time the Boks started to play more games was when they were released back into the CC, but before all that the time players played was neck and neck between the two coutries.

it might be hard to accept for the hardcore Bok supporters, but the All Black older players are a lot better then the saffa players who lasted that long, all this talk about McCaw being old, well dont make me post up his stats, cos its only going to cause resentment that the wrolds greatest rugby player is still the worlds greatest player, :oP

i think hansen has been devloping the future really well, a lot better then meyer has done for the Boks, especially in the first two games on their EOYT, where meyer wasted the opportunity to try new things against scotland, instead he chose to field his best team possible.
All Blacks on the other hand debuted two new players and gave a lot of 2012 debutants more gametime, plus experimented with a midfiled against scotland & loose forwards for the azzuri.

All Blacks transition will be a smooth transition, as we have the petrfect balance of new players, experienced player, fringe players with plenty of game experience, veterans and more importantly, quality and in form players.

All Blacks might not have as many old players as many think come the RWC, but the will have enough to prove that theory about older players dead wrong.


 

"NZ are right - we are WRONG. We must face the FACTS." never thought I'd hear those words coming  from Beeno's own mouth hahahahahahahahaha LOL - quick someone/anyone give him his missed medications and call the ambulance!

"Supposedly these ABs are  like teenagers out there. They can't wait for the next game. Let's take a look at some of the oldies:"

ok mozzie, but lets start by taking a look at McCaw and carter, two players on the2012 IRB player of the year nomination list, :oD

Clevermike, I think you hope age slows the AB's down.  Agree with comments regarding core 5 and Hore. Disagree with comment regarding Messam, not average merely in developmental stage for what AB selectors want according to game plan ala Jerry Collins and Jerome Kaino, competition with Vito ensures another AB world class 6. Savea is coming on, Habana even at his prime was prone to errors, remember the USA winger who went around him or going for intercepts and leaving gaps.  Aaron Smith is well above solid as a halfback, he currently must be considered in top 2-3 in world, Keiran Read should be included in core players as is the best #8 in the world, totally disagree with comments reagrding the locks, they  both are able to play tight and loose roles effectively which is what the AB;s want for their game style, Cruden as flakey as he can be I rate above Goosen at the moment, Barrett again a player in development.  I don't take much stock in the number of NZ teams that make the Super 15 top 4 or 6. I would be more worried that statistically SA had more teams but NZ won the final and then carrried that over to winning the Rugby Championship, and winning in Europe. If anything it's an indication that what NZ rugby is doing right is producing winning rugby teams. Predictions for winning the RWC is always up in the air, wouldn't be so arrogant to say AB's will win it, any of SH teams and France are always in it,  Argentina though a dark horse.