MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
01 Oct 2014, 14:45#2
Hahaha Sapp you have worked in a "high pressure environment with lots of stakeholders". This is a pretty simple case....you can't have two top men. Any time the players had an issue, Smit was there to listen to their woes. Jake had no problem with the players at the Brumbies....in fact they still talk about how much he taught them.
Typical losers delighting in the troubles of a winner. Truly pathetic.
RORooinek
Captain18,117 posts
RORooinekCaptain18,117 posts
01 Oct 2014, 15:32#3
No surprises that the players didn't like the pompous and overbearing Joke White. His supercilious and smarmy attitude alone would be enough to alienate the players . . . let alone his completely overrated rugby brain or his boring, predictable and sterile tactics.
I hope Joke goes off to join the equally inept Eddie Jones in Japan or wherever and people can finally see for themselves that both are actually very ordinary coaches who made their reputations on one RWC where a few surprise results and the vagaries of the draw worked out almost miraculously for the Springboks who sailed through an entire RWC without having to play either of their traditional Southern Hemisphere rivals or the hosts France.
I know there are some who will continue reminding me that the likes of New Zealand and Australia didn't play well enough to get to the semis and the final but you're going to struggle to convince me that the likes of Scotland and Argentina have been stronger opponents than the Wallabies or the All Blacks any time in the last 50 years. We were incredibly lucky and the fact remains, we only had to beat a pretty poor England team twice at a neutral venue to win that RWC . . . and during that tournament we came as close as we've ever come in our history to losing to minnows like Fiji and Tonga.
Joke only ever did one thing of note for the Springboks and that was re-introducing the old and abandoned rush defence which gave us a surprise 3N victory in 2004 but once that novelty wore off, Joke was exposed as a one-trick pony with nothing else to offer.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
01 Oct 2014, 15:54#4
Ah yes but what have you done of note RooiAAS....a loser yapping at a winner.
AJArthur John
Pro1,748 posts
AJArthur JohnPro1,748 posts
01 Oct 2014, 16:01#5
Dave in the article (Mercury) a suggestion is that Gold and/or Mitchell are in the running.
I hope that the reporter was referring to the Comrades and not the Sharks.
Gold was hired by de Villiers and both knew squat about rugby.
Mitchell has the distinction of running for last place in the S15, fortunately for him the Queens were not playing.
The Sharks need a coach from RSA and a guy who understands and believes in running and winning rugby.
Out with the skop and lose possession old style game.
The Sharks have the most talented squad in SA rugby, now all they require is a coach who can coral that talent into a winning squad.
Lets hope and pray John Smit and his board now make the right choice.
Not just for the Sharks but for the sake of SA rugby.
SASaffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SASaffolk Captain30,741 posts
01 Oct 2014, 20:34#6
Agreed AJ they need to find a coach who will embrace the expansive game. They might just promote Henderson.
Difficult to say who they should target - Venter, Mallet or Rassie
SASaffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SASaffolk Captain30,741 posts
01 Oct 2014, 20:38#7
Agreed Rooi you are spot on. Joke leaves a sour taste wherever he goes.
Look no further than his Bok record in the two years leading up to the WC, where he came damn close to getting the sack.
An easy WC draw, a great squad of players and the help of Jones got him a WC. It had very little to do with Jake.
01 Oct 2014, 21:22#8
Venter is not going to get actively involved in coaching. He has said already that he has to start paying more attention to his medical practice.
Rassie has already landed himself a nice cosy job at SARU and he seems to be enjoying himself a lot. Why would he demote himself down to a normal coach again with all the stress, uncertainty and other BS that goes with the job?
Mallett has already said that he is not at all interested in a coaching job. He was not even interested in the Sharks job before Jake was in the picture. Why would he be now?
My guess is that they would go after John Mitchel. Only problem is that he was involved in the same kind of sh!t, at the Lions, that Jake just had at the Sharks.
The only hope for the Sharks is to look abroad, which I doubt will happen. That leaves two options, IMO. Jimmy Stonehouse or Johan Ackermann.
Stonehouse has a massive loyalty to the Pumas, having played for them himself, and it would take one hell of a financial offer to get him away from the Pumas. Never say never, though. Jimmy had overseas opportunities. He has coached in Russia, amongst others, but he returned to the Pumas. The fact that it is an upwards move for him might sway it, if he does get approached. Question is whether it would be healthy for the Sharks to have an outsider jump their own current internal coaches? Particularly when it is someone who has had no exposure to S15 rugby.
Johan Ackermann seems to have quite a nicely settled position with the Lions and he and everybody seems to be in a happy place with things looking much more rosy than what it did two years ago. A move to the Sharks would be a lateral move and unless there is a hell of a lot of financial advantages, there is nothing that would be of a huge benefit to them.
All in all, things doesn't look great for the Sharks.
PS. My rabbit out of the hat instead of the above two...................? For some reason Carlos Spencer of the Kings just popped up in my mind. He also seems like another possibility. Best of both worlds. He is "someone from abroad" . He is also very familiar with South Africa, the customs and the issues and he has worked at S15 level.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
01 Oct 2014, 21:56#9
Oh sure the Sapp you and the joke RooiAAS come up with the standard RWC winning diminution....your only choice after deriding the team you are now praising and after the AAs said our chances were slim to none. Bitter and twisted after he didn't pick the failure Watson...bitter and twisted after he won the RWC.
As for his players not supporting him, Bakkies said he was playing in the subsequent Barbarians game, only to honor Jake
Stick that up your fat aas loser.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
01 Oct 2014, 22:49#10
Mozart
The rebellion among the players certainly started with Francois Steyn being excused by White from training exercises and White blaming other players for deficiencies and praising a fumbling Steyn (his stats proved that beyond a shadow of doubt) - despite his defensive and attacking flaws. Any coach who shows obvious favouritism is bound to cause divisions in the team enevironment and it is indeed surprising it took so long to boil over.
As stated previously - his involvement in flawed Sharks selections that resulted in two losses to minnow teams and a draw against the Cheetahs - must have been the final straw.
SASaffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SASaffolk Captain30,741 posts
01 Oct 2014, 22:51#11
Moffie go check Jakes overall Bok record it's shit.....nothing more needs to be said. Jake was an ordinary coach with an ego.....no wonder you rate the disloyal wanker.
The man leaves a sour taste wherever he goes much like you do
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
01 Oct 2014, 23:06#12
Dave the only sour taste is your bitterness as I whip your fat butt all over the Board. Or perhaps you are thinking about a sour smell, like the one that wafted out when you took off your jacket. How's the hygie ne these days?
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
01 Oct 2014, 23:10#13
Mozart lost the argument and is getting personal again. That is reserved for the extremely ignorant as well.
SASaffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SASaffolk Captain30,741 posts
01 Oct 2014, 23:29#14
Moffie you could not whip my arse even if you had double the brain capacity you have now.
My hygiene is as good as it has always been
Do you still dislike black people so intensely as you did when we met. I could not believe your racism. Has age dimmed your ra scist flame?
SASaffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SASaffolk Captain30,741 posts
02 Oct 2014, 00:03#16
Moffie just because you are a racist does not mean I would disregard you. Each to their own as they say. I judged you on the man I met not your convictions. We were hardly going to strike up a lasting friendship. It was a once off, the fact that you are a racist is of no consequence to me.
You must be pleased you brought up the lies about my hygiene....so much for whipping my arse. I have your number old man. Two can play your fucking game
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
02 Oct 2014, 00:11#18
So you just sat there through this alleged racial diatribe. I guess the chance for a free drink and some food must have been pretty important to you.
SASaffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SASaffolk Captain30,741 posts
02 Oct 2014, 00:16#19
Yes I sat through it, shaking my head in disbelief inside.
SASaffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SASaffolk Captain30,741 posts
02 Oct 2014, 00:24#21
Yeah we have the old man lying again....my guess is that dementia has set in and that he can't differentiate between the lies and truth anymore.....It all just morphs into one for the old timer
02 Oct 2014, 00:41#22
Ah well, I know what I know and that has always been good enough for me !
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
02 Oct 2014, 00:48#23
Ceradyne
Just comment on the following:-
My guess is that they would go after John Mitchel. Only problem is that he was involved in the same kind of sh!t, at the Lions, that Jake just had at the Sharks."
You have lost it again here - and badly so. Mitchell was taking the captain and Earl Silky Hands to task for inadequate performances - and ightly so. They then concocted a letterof cpmplaint to the Lions Board about Mitchell as coach - and the Board was follish enough to beleive the hogwash and they suspended Mitchell as coach. When a hearing was held about the issue only Strauss and Jantjies turned up at the hearing and a fter eharing evidence Mitchell was exonerated.
In the case of White the problem started with his handling of players and showing favouritsm to one player in particular - Francois Steyn. Steyn was controversial from the time of his returm to the Sharks in 2012. In 2013 there were serious indications that he was trying to undermine Keegan Daneel as captain by the so-called Afrikaans episode. However - he was so poor that he was dropped to the ebnch and the reason for his behaviour can at best be described as totally unacceptable - it obviously did cause division in the camp.
When White was appointedf as coach - Steyn was his favourite and Daneel was worked out of the team. Steyn was even excused from training exercises and some of the abckline selections ebcame a lotter - with Steyn either at flyhalf or center with the other players being pushed around. Steyn was bad in both defense and attacking play and the backline play was effectively sabotaged by him. Steyn could even stay away from training - and when there was a flop in the results - other players were blamed and Steyn exonerated.
When White took over as coach there was already divisions in the team - and all he did was to make it worse.
Do you now understnd - it was not the "same sh!t"
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
02 Oct 2014, 01:02#24
So a good canapé is more important to the Vetsak than standing up against racism....for shame.
02 Oct 2014, 01:08#25
On the flip side, if you found him to be so distasteful, why did you spend the evening with him, Mozart ? ??
02 Oct 2014, 01:20#26
Jaaaaa ou Maaikie. Why did I just know that you would find a way of throwing in your own bullsh!t again.
You have no basis of the BS you have posted about the story behind Jake White. The Steyn story is just your own imagination running wild again.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
02 Oct 2014, 01:21#27
Actually becs I don't have a problem with fat people, as for his BO, once the jacket was on it was hardly a big factor. Nothing you don't have to deal with in any Pom crowd.
But I think you are confusing a supposed incident which called for a principled response with a a minor inconvenience. Once again Dave has put his foot in his mouth.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
02 Oct 2014, 02:10#28
Becs to put the whole thing in a nut shell, it seems to me we have three options. Either Sapp didn't think standing up against racism was important, or he did but was so intimidated by me he couldn't challenge the alleged racism or its all just a lie.
Take your pick a closet racist, a coward or a liar.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
02 Oct 2014, 07:05#29
Ceradyne
It really is no BS neiter is it my interpretation. First of all there was a serious breakdown in relationships between Plumntree and Steyn last year. After Steyn was made interim captain - with Daneel being injured - Steyn buggered up so badly in the Kings game that he was replaced at minute 55. Daneel was supposed to be off for another week - but was brought back the following week in the game against the brumbies to captain the side. Steyn was a disaster against the Brumbies - and was then dropped from the starting line up with Plumtree stating that he was not going toplay Steyn again at center - because he really is no center.
Steyn himself admits he is not an easy person to get along with - since he refuses to take advice from anyone. What is amazing is that shortly after the Brumbies match runours started to circulate about Daneel being anti-Afrikaans and that story ended up in Die Burger - causing a storm afterwards. Steyn had it in for both Plumtree and Daneel and itis virtually 100% sure he was the origin of the Afrikaans language story.
The situation with Steyn this year was widely recorded and stated by White himself. because of the wacky knee situation - Steyn was excempted from training on Mondays and Tuesdays. If that does not show favouritsm - what does it show? It was evident that Steyn was a negativein the Skharks backline - he was every effective i sabotaging the Sharks backline. That was proven statistically and evident on the field of play. He rarely pased balls to players outside of him and his passing was more pften than not inaccurate - so was his kicking game. The situation was so bad that the team lost possession and was penalized so often because of Steyn lapses - that the average ball losses as a result of Steyn was nearly 3 losses per match. If inaccurate passes are included it would be more. Yet - Steyn got praised by White after each match and it was clear - while others were pushed around to accommodate him in the team.
Those are facts - not guessing - and the obvious reason for player dissatisfaction can be traced to Steyn. He himslef is a person whose self-image is so exxalted - he never takes advoice from anyone and his latest outburst in the Springbok setup confirms that perception. In fact he admitted the problem in a recent interview. A team playe he is not - a disruptive element he is. When the coach supports that kind of player - then the result would be a player revolt.
SASaffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SASaffolk Captain30,741 posts
02 Oct 2014, 11:44#34
Dumb Ass my guess is that you don't even know what bipolar is......did you google that word?
02 Oct 2014, 11:46#35
There is also the fact that you keep saying you found Mr S so distasteful yet you spent the evening with him too.Why was that, Mozart ? What were your reasons ? A man such as yourself doesn't need to lower himself to spend time with the hoi polloi, now does he ?
So why did you stay and risk being seen in public with such a man ?
PAPakie
Captain17,321 posts
02 Oct 2014, 12:23#36
Maybe it was supposed to be an episode of Undercover Millionaire but the camera crew went to the wrong club?
02 Oct 2014, 12:41#37
Good point, Pakie.
That always happens to me
RORooinek
Captain18,117 posts
RORooinekCaptain18,117 posts
02 Oct 2014, 13:08#39
The real question that needs to be asked here is what kind of person would meet up with a fellow poster and then spend the rest of his life slagging that person off?
The hate-campaign that Moffie has been waging against Saffex since their meeting is the kind of spiteful and vitriolic diatribe one would expect from a spoilt little child. Seriously, imagine meeting a fellow poster for a drink only to find the next day this same fair-weather "friend" is slagging you off in front of everyone because you're an inch shorter than him? Then the next day he's having a pop at you because you weren't wearing a jacket . . . and then he goes on about your alleged body odour . . . and then it's your hair . . . and then it's another month of banging on about the height again.
Even if Moffie was right about Dave . . . and I know he's lying through his rotting yellow teeth because I've met Dave in person . . . what kind of person would carry on about it the way Moffie has? And, while we're at it, what kind of person boasts and brags about himself in the crass and vulgar manner that Moffie does, all the while belittling and insulting others?
I know there are some posters who haven't seen through Moffie yet . . . notably his Servile Gimps like Baboon-ou and Dense . . . but just take a look at the way this self-important old fool conducts himself and the sneering contempt he has for anyone who doesn't inflate his bloated ego. Just ask yourself . . . for those of you who followed his obsessive campaign against Saffex on several message boards for about a decade . . . what kind of deeply unpleasant person would go to those lengths . . . and keep it up for so long?
02 Oct 2014, 13:12#40
LOL @ Becs.
Moz and Saff, you two had a semi-truce a while back which resulted in some good old fashioned banter, but not direct insults. Apparently the truce has ended and the pair of you are headed straight back into that dark place again. Come on guys keep it above the nut sack!
