Greatest Bok vs All Black Team - Post 1996

ex-sport24

Greatest Springbok XV from 1996 to date

15 Percy Montgomery, 

14 JP Pietersen, 

13 Jaque Fourie, 

12 Jean de Villiers, 

11 Bryan Habana, 

10 Handre Pollard, 

9 Fourie du Preez, 

8 Duane Vermeulen, 

7 Pieter-Steph du Toit, 

6 Schalk Burger, 

5 Victor Matfield, 

4 Eben Etzebeth, 

3 Cobus Visagie, 

2 Bismarck du Plessis, 

1 Os du Randt

Greatest All Blacks XV from 1996 to date (tweaked)

15 Christian Cullen, 

14 Doug Howlett, 

13 Conrad Smith, 

12 Ma'a Nonu, 

11. Jonah Lomu, 

10 Dan Carter

9 Aaron Smith

8 Zinzan Brooke

7 Richie McCaw

6 Michael Jones

5 Sam Whitelock

4 Brodie Retallick

3 Olo Brown

2 Sean Fitzpatrick

1 Tony Woodcock

bubbling under -

15 Percy Montgomery- (bubbling under -Andre Joubert)

14 JP Pietersen-  (bubbling under - Paulse, Kolbe)

13 Jaque Fourie, 

12 Jean de Villiers (bubbling under -Franco Smith, )

11 Bryan Habana (bubbling under -Chester Williams, Mapimpi)

10 Handre Pollard - (2nd place is far behind, and NO it is not Morne Shit Stain. Probably Butch James and Honnibal). 

9 Fourie du Preez- (bubbling under -Joost was amazing, but FDP was the master tactician that commanded the game from his chariot. 

8 Duane Vermeulen - an all-round player that can cover any position in the backrow, and adapt his game based on the situation 

7 Pieter-Steph du Toit (bubbling under - Juan Smith)

6 Schalk Burger (bubbling under Brussouw. Before Schalks neck injury he was good on the openside) 

5 Victor Matfield ( bubbling under -Mark Andrews)

4 Eben Etzebeth (bubbling under -Bakkies)

3 Cobus Visagie (bubbling under - Frans Malherbe) 

2 Bismarck du Plessis, (bubbling under - Marx- although Marx has been better, albeit he has lost some form recently)

1 Os du Randt (bubbling under -Beast)

That team was in the media and the period covered was from 1995 to 2019 and they asked that readers send in their own assessments by e-mail and I sent them the following:-

 15  Andre Joubert

14  Breyton Paulse

13  Jacque Fourie

12   Jean de Villiers

11  Bryan Habana

10  Handre Pollard

  9   Joost van der  Westhuizen

  8   Duane Vermeulen

  7   Pieter-Steff du Toit

  6   Schalk Burger

  5   Mark Andrews

  4   Eben  Etzebeth

3        Cobus Visagie

  2     Bismarck du Plessis

  1    Tendai Mtawarira  

Replacements 

16   Malcol m Marx

17   Os du Randt

18   Frans Malherbe

19   Bakkies Botha

20   Bobby Skinstad

21   Fourie du Preez

22   Henry Honiball

23    Percy Montgomery

I  omitted Matfield and Steyn because they ruined their playing reputations after 2011 and Steyn in the recent WC was nothing more than a very average dirt tracker

Der Springbock:

1. Mtawarira, Du Randt
2. Smit, Marx
3. Visagie, du Plessis
4. Botha, Van der Merwe
5. Matfield, Snyman
6. Brussow, Louw
7. Smith, Burger
8. Vermeulen, Van Niekerk
9. Du Preez, Joost
10. James, Steyn
11. Habana, Mapimpi
12. Steyn, De Villiers
13. Fourie, Joubert
14. Paulse; Pietersen
15. Le Roux; Montgomery

1. Woodcock, 
2. Fitzpatrick, Coles
3. Brown, Hayman
4. Williams, Jack
5. Retallick, 
6. Jones, Collins
7. McCaw, Kronfeld
8. Read, Brooke
9. Marshall, Smith
10. Carter, Mehrtens
11. Rocokoco, Savea
12. Nonu, Mauger
13. Smith, Umaga
14. Howlett, Smith
15. Dagg, Muliaina

The idea is one team - not two and the unthinking BS you included is notorious - sad to say.  As bad as you are on the Springboks so bad are you on the All Blacks,  Your forte is definitely not player identification and performance assessment dimness,    

The idea is one team - not two and the unthinking BS you included is notorious - sad to say.  As bad as you are on the Springboks so bad are you on the All Blacks,  Your forte is definitely not player identification and performance assessment dimness,    

9 Boks from our great 2007 team in the article.....4 from the 2018 team. Sounds about right.

Actually 10 from 2007, if I'm not mistaken, but I would pick Cheslin ahead of JP Pietersen...and 2019 Beast ahead of 2007 Os...in fact on average, beast walks the Bok 3 OAT.

10 - 4 turns to 8 - 6 which is a much better reflection...just goes to show how much more crucial the coaching staff of 2019 were.

I counted Bismarck for the 2007 team, but he wasn't a starter for the final...so it's actually 7-6?

Actually I would choose Cheslin and the Beast as well....but there is that tackle JP made against Fiji that may have saved our WC.

JP was no slouch but IMO Cheslin has an added touch of magic. What a pity rugby just stopped...would have loved to see the side evolving on the back of the RWC conference boost...we never get the momentum after a RWC win. The previous 2 times we lost the coaching teams and no the bloody virus desaster. 

JP was a better all round wing in my opinion. A rock under the high ball, superb defence and skills. A tremendous servant of Bok rugby. 

Size does not equal strength. I do have old games going back to the late 90s, but I can't say that I have a vivid recollection of Franco outside of a few plays. I'll say that I wasn't at all impressed by Muller. Muller and Fleck has to rank as the most skilless combo we've ever fielded. Fleck stated that he first learnt to offload when in Wales. 

I am afraid that like Frans Steyn JP peaked early with a rather drastic decline afterwards.  He was by 2015 at the age of 29 he was a passenger.   I cannot remember a single test after 2012 when eh really was good enough,   Maybe it was the playing style of the team or perhaps the fact that he did not look for work that caused the decline.  I was hesitating between Kolbe and Paulse - and anyone of the two could make it,  There was not a single player listed that was not a food servant of SA Rugby in that list,        

Frans remained elite until 2019, when he mopped up after the pretender that is Dud1. How embarrassing for you; a hasbeen showing up a five year veteran! 

Damian is fundamentally flawed in every way. He makes mistakes as a six year veteran that I've never seen 23 year old makes. Maybe your school had lesser standards than mine. That's a possibility, and would explain the disparity in expectations and evaluation. 

Gosh Mike I thought you had Alberts pegged as the ‘food servant’ of South African rugby.

Sorry about the typing error,   Neither Alberts and Steyn was food  servants - they tried to disrupt the food supply chain in France  - and were grossly overweight with fat tears always  problematic .    

What did Steyn do about mopping up dimness?    

This was the replay I received about the team I sent in to News24L-

Thanks so much for your reply!

Not a bad team at all.

Mark Andrews certainly a name worth pondering over. He was hard as nails and also a lineout kingpin

I must admit their are better options, when looking through this list. Some of these players are much bigger ball carriers for the current era. 

Frans Steyn- Probably second to Jean Devilliers. 

Esterhuizen - A big unit. More consistent in SuperRugby than Delande. Has been ok at test level, not great. 

JVR  - average catch and pass, a bit clumsy. Getting more lean might help his game. 

Vorster - Not a test standard player. Slow with pins in his legs

Pieter Muller- A powerhouse, but not a play maker, especially when he moved from 13 to 12.

Wynand Olivier- failed at test level. Good SuperRugby player. 

Danie v Schalkwyk- Not a test standard player. 

Christiaan Scholtz- I forgot about this player, he was very good. Physical with a good draw and pass

Trevor Halstead- Utter crap, totally one dimension. May as well play Willem Alberts at 12. The worst Sharks centre ever. I was so happy when he went overseas. 

Wayne Julies-  decent. Lacked pace, but a solid play maker. Good runner. 

De Wet Barry- Strong ball carrier, ok pop pass for outside runners. Good defence. 

Dick Muir - Very good play maker. Good tackler. Good at getting his outside backs into the game. 

Joe Gillingham - Can barely remember him. Did he play for the Sharks

Peter Muller - One of the most physical 12's to have played for the Boks. Limited on attack, but a ferocious defender. 

Damian's defence hasn't turned a corner. It's quite bizarre how everyone's perception of him has fluctuated considering that he is still the same player he was in 2014. It truly boggles the mind. In fact, he is less effective now than the progression of 2015, which was his peak, particularly under Meyer, who changed the way he was utilised.

Esterhuizen: We've never had a 12 who could defend like him. Esterhuizen is by far the most impactful and skillful 12 of the Rassie reign by far. The poor analytics of SA os his undoing, that and dishonesty. He changes the way teams play the game. Singlehandedly, he forces opponents to unfold their attacks on the back foot and shuts down their outlets on attack. His long dart is good, amd his close quarter passing andd offload is without equal in the game at 12. If he were a Kiwi he'd have been a well established senior by now.

To any who disagree, I challenge you to whip out film and prove it! 

PS - Frans was only second to Jean in terms of year's of service. Otherwise he was the better 12. Jean had a very good 2013, in which he exceeded his limitations, otherwise running lines and distribution was not his forte, and this limited the Bok game for many years. Barry's 2004 was better than Jean's 2013. Barry was unfortunate enough to play during the worst portion of SA rugby, and his potential was only truly realised by Jake, and a little too late. He was a core piece in that devastating Bok attack. 

A player who could not make the starting test side for 6 years because of playing sub-standard rugby and since then had two starting games again st minions  in that period is AO's choice ahead of De Villiers.