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Hallelujah...

Started by Denny20 REPLIES542 VIEWS· 23 Jan 2016, 02:39
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DennyCaptain12,893 posts
23 Jan 2016, 02:39
#1
23 Jan 2016, 02:39#1
the experiment which miserably failed by playing a middle order batsman as an opener is over. I cannot help but feel for Stiaan Van Wyk. The selectors must have an enormous amount of respect for the lad to have tried him in a specialist role and I hope he hasn't been discarded as I'm convinced the lad has a role to play. Barry Richards has to be applauded for nominating Stephen Cook awhile back as the solution to the opening woes, it's only now the clowns who run Protea cricket have caught up but all too late. It's a shame that Richards cannot be utilized in a leading role within the setup, he has a lot to offer in that he has a cricketing brain which is sadly lacking by the pretenders who now run the show. The day belongs to Stephen Cook, he should have been in the side 2 years ago and yesterday he made that perfectly clear. My faith in Protea cricket has been partially restored for now we have an opening pair, specialist in their role and adding much needed confidence for the rest of the team. I like what I see in Bavuma and a new look QDK.....AB though is a concern, the shot that got him out tells me his head is in the wrong place. Duminy has to go....no team can feed off past history alone. Runs on the board is always an advantage but my thinking is that the wicket is worth between 450 to 500 runs....perhaps even a bit more so on that basis we needed to be 4 down not 5 if we were to close out England. To get on top the two at the crease must hang around and one of them has to score a ton.For now I'm glad that in Cook, Elgar, Amla, AB and Bavuma we have a nucleus of test batsmen and hopefully QDK will add to the list. The grass is starting to green.
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bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
23 Jan 2016, 03:02
#2
23 Jan 2016, 03:02#2
 

Race is killing South African cricket - Politicsweb


www.politicsweb.co.za/news-and.../race-is-killing-south-african-cricket3 days ago - RW Johnson says the crushing defeat of the Proteas in the current test ... Cricket, however, has been South Africa's top sport for some time now ...

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PlumCaptain21,007 posts
23 Jan 2016, 03:12
#3
23 Jan 2016, 03:12#3
If I were to guess which woupd die more quickly, I would say rugby. The reason being that cricket is more racially popular. Many more black kids play cricket than do rugby. In years to come I forsee some legendary black cricketers coming out of SA. We've had a few, but always bowlers. Maybe Bavuma will inspire a bit more wood wielders...since batting is certainly the classier of the two disciplines :)
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DennyCaptain12,893 posts
23 Jan 2016, 03:42
#4
23 Jan 2016, 03:42#4
 It's a numbers game......and it's a good thing that in time there'll be unexposed and untapped numbers available. I just wish they'd piss off their obsession with race and do some grassroot building, let's see some meaningful structures put in place. That will effectively give new meaning to transformation, a transformation which provides coaching clinics and facilities and effectively maintain those structures not the cheap politico demand to have X amount of Pink, green and whatsoever coloured numbers in the national team.
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DennyCaptain12,893 posts
23 Jan 2016, 04:01
#5
23 Jan 2016, 04:01#5
 Great article Blob....I'm in total agreement. I like the bit about how there's more political interference in Cricket because cricket was a success. I guess the politico's were hoping to fly on the back of cricket.
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bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
23 Jan 2016, 05:17
#6
23 Jan 2016, 05:17#6
RW Johnson | 20 January 2016 RW Johnson says the crushing defeat of the Proteas in the current test series is a portent of things to come

Beyond a Boundary

South African cricket since re-admission in 1990 has been mainly a joy. With the dreadful exception of the Hansie Cronje affair, the team has been consistently magnificent and has produced some of the most memorable names in the game – Jacques Kallis, Graeme Smith, Allan Donald, Jonty Rhodes, Makhaya Ntini, Shaun Pollock, Dale Steyn, Herschelle Gibbs, A.B. de Villiers and Hashim Amla, to name but a few.

In this new era the team was at last open to players of all races and its tremendous successes were also hailed by all races for the first time. South Africans love a winning team and that was mainly what they got. It was striking that a large number of Coloured cricketers quickly rose to the top, showing that Basil d'Oliveira had been no flash in the pan. Less expected was the arrival in force of many hugely talented white Afrikaans cricketers.

Black Africans were far fewer – Ntini, of course, and but for terrible luck with injuries, Mfuneko Ngam – one of the best natural fast bowlers that the country has ever produced. But cricket-lovers were happy as long as they felt the team was picked on merit and provided it kept on winning.

South Africa's crushing defeat in the current series against England highlights what is happening to the only sport in which South Africa is rated as No.1 in the world. It is a tragic situation. Simply because South African cricket was so good it has been a major target for transformation capture. Who cares about soccer when the country's team became the first in World Cup history not to progress beyond the first round as the host team? But in cricket and rugby South Africa has conquered the world and this means that these are the two commanding heights selected for particularly strong political interference.

In rugby, South Afica were usually No2 to New Zealand. Cricket, however, has been South Africa's top sport for some time now, its team No.1 in the world for years on end. But this has simply meant that the political pressures on the game have increased.

One could start some years ago when Shaun Pollock attempted to persuade Ali Bacher that if something was not done to keep him, South Africa would lose the services of Kevin Pietersen. Bacher, who has much to live down from his role in the pirate tours era of busting sports sanctions, was adamant that nothing extra should be done to keep Pietersen. So Pietersen became England's top-scoring batsman instead. He was part of a trend.

Since then one has found an increasing number of young South Africans emigrating to countries where their white skins will not be a handicap. Even Roelof van der Merwe has decided to become a Dutchman while Johan Botha, now an emigre to Australia, has insisted that if South Africa wants him it will have to pick him from there. One old Springbok player of great distinction told the author that when asked to advise on the careers of promising young white cricketers, he usually counselled emigration to New Zealand.

This situation has now caught up with the country's Test team. As always, one has to start with the administrators. The chairman of Cricket South Africa, Haroon Lorgat, is the man who forced the selection of an unfit Vernon Philander (a Coloured) onto the South African team in the ODI World Cup, when Kyle Abbot (a white) was the obvious form pick. This cost South Africa a place in the final and the decision has weighed on the shoulders of South Africa's cricketers ever since. A.B. de Villiers, the captain, was reportedly so discouraged that he didn't want to play in the match at all and one can only sympathise. By selecting an unfit player South Africa was made, effectively, to play with only ten men. Philander bowled a few overs, took no wickets and wasn't even fit enough to field. In a closely fought game that is too much of a handicap for any team to overcome.

The Proteas had longed to win the World Cup, knew that no other team would be forced to pick an unfit player and realised that, in effect, they had been made to lose by their own administrators. For most of the players this summed the situation up all too well: if their own administrators were out to undermine them, how could they ever win ? The decision was, of course, equally devastating for Philander. Until then no one had doubted that he was one of the world's top bowlers in the team on merit. Now, however, by picking him when he was obviously unfit, it was made clear that ultimately he was just a quota player. Philander has never come back from that awful incident.

Spare a thought for what it must feel like to South Africa's cricketers. First, they had the repeated experience of being put to the sword by Kevin Pietersen, knowing all the time that he might have been playing on their side. Then at the World Cup the New Zealander who hit the winning six against them was Grant Elliot, yet another emigre South African. Wherever they go they are in effect mocked by the sight of ex-South Africans turning out for the opposition. This can hardly be fun.

Then came the tour of India. Prior to this the experienced Gary Kirsten had been succeeded as team coach by Russell Domingo, a man of colour, but with virtually no experience of top level cricket. This in itself was fantastic: plenty of experienced internationals were available for the job and no other top Test team would have dreamt of making the perilous tour to India without a coach able to prepare the team for the unique challenges they would face there.

The new chairman of selectors, Linda Zondi, had played only three first class matches in his life and his fellow selectors were also lacking in any experience of international cricket. The result was that the selection of the team for the Indian tour was botched. Above all, they failed even to select two opening batsmen. The team was also completely under-prepared for what they might face. Domingo was unable to anticipate the problems they would confront there because he had never been to India before in his life and cheerfully (though absurdly) talked of leading an expedition up the Himalayas.

On top of that, Hashim Amla had been chosen as the new captain despite his own reluctance to fill that role. Everyone agreed that Amla was a wonderful batsman, a highly intelligent and a very nice man. But a captain? He had none of Graeme Smith's bulldog breed leadership qualities. His field placings were often naive. He seemed completely unsuited to the role. Indeed, that is what he had repeatedly said himself. But, of course, the aim was to have a captain of colour. Again, it was a considerable insult to Amla: despite his wonderful achievements for his country, in the crunch all that mattered was the colour of his skin.

The result was, of course, catastrophe. The team only tied with Bangladesh and then lost 3-0 to India and its younger batsmen came back with their confidence crushed. A clear sign of the sheer amateurism of the situation was the way in which a decision about whether to include the injured Dale Steyn was taken only at the last moment before any given match. It was as if they were ready at the drop of a hat to play a semi-fit Steyn.

In Durban it seemed that the team was close to just folding up. Once again, the selectors refused to pick a proper opening batsman to accompany Elgar. A high price was paid for this. Then again, despite De Villiers' known frailties and his publicly stated wish not to be over-burdened, he was pressed into service as a wicket-keeper: he ended up keeping for over 202 overs. Essentially he was put under that absurd load because if de Kock had been picked to keep wicket, Bavuma would probably have had to make way for him. And that couldn't be allowed on obvious racial grounds.

All of this was allowed to happen with no serious discussion on either TV or radio because all sports commentary and particularly cricket commentary in South Africa is now subject to strong political censorship. No one may even discuss on air the calamities being inflicted on the game by racial politics. This is, of course, exactly the same as happened under apartheid when there could be no discussion on SABC of the horrific damage done to the game by the Vorster government's bone-headed attitude to the d'Oliveira affair.

The result, then as now, is that if one wants to have any notion as to what is going on one has to read what foreign commentators are saying. Thus, for example, the seasoned BBC commentator, Jonathan Agnew, questioned whether South Africa was being properly captained at all - “Amla just stands at mid-off polishing the ball”, he wrote, adding “Quite simply the Proteas look as though they are hating their cricket. There was no leadership from Hashim Amla – when things are going badly, the captain has to galvanise the team to inject some spirit and fight. There was none at all.”

In addition, of course, the coaching scene was a pure mess. Batting coaches came and went in swift succession. Allan Donald left as bowling coach and there too there has been too much coming and going. In the end Graeme Smith erupted on air and was immediately approached about being drafted into the Proteas' dressing room (though this reportedly did not come to pass) Everything was ad hoc. Contrast that with England who have an Australian coach, Trevor Bayliss, and a West Indian bowling coach, Ottis Gibson. They have been selected purely on merit. But one could not imagine South Africa asking foreigners to step in and, truth to tell, none of the good ones could possibly stomach the continual political interference in the game.

This dismal process ended with another thrashing at the Wanderers and the loss of South Africa's No.1 status. But the real drama is this: South Africa are now No.3 in the ICC rankings but England are No.5 and coming up fast, while Pakistan (no.4) have just beaten England. In other words, South Africa could sink to 6th place relatively soon. Indeed, beneath that neither New Zealand nor Sri Lanka are pushovers, so it is quite conceivable that within a few years from now South Africa will have mirrored the collapse of the mighty West Indian teams of yore and sunk down near the bottom of the heap.

The reason why this is so is the new CSA rule, requiring all provincial sides to play six players of colour of whom three must be black African. The fact that this is being enforced is itself testament to the fact that teams chosen strictly on merit would not look like that. Which is to say, CSA have decided deliberately to degrade the standard of provincial cricket and with it the standard of the national side too. No other cricket board in the world would take a decision deliberately to undermine the standard of its own national side for political reasons. How different, indeed, is the CSA from the old apartheid cricket regime? Both of them enforce selection based on race.

There was a time when South African provincial cricket was as strong as Sheffield Shield cricket in Australia. No more. The standard has already been degraded and will now be lowered further. There is no doubt at all that this rule will see more and more cricket refugees leaving South Africa in order to qualify for other countries. Already this has reached embarrassing proportions: at a World Cup nowadays there is hardly any team without an emigre South African member or two. Both of New Zealand's two most recent wicket-keepers, B.J. Watling and Kruger van Wyk, are South African, as are their team mates Neil Wagner and Grant Elliot.

Kyle Coetzer is Scotland's vice-captain, Wesley Barresi and Ryan ten Doeschate star for Holland, as will Roelof Van dr Merwe in future. Michael Vaughan, the former England captain, has spoken out against the fact that ten South Africans have now played for England and in some cases, like Trott or Kieswetter, this was after they had already played for representative South African sides. In the current English team, one might note, Nick Compton used to play his cricket with Hashim Amla at Durban High School. In effect, South Africa is becoming for cricket what Cuba is for baseball, with more and more talented Cubans defecting from their country in order to play for foreign baseball teams.

Already, the signs are clear. The stars of the current team all came up through a provincial structure based largely on merit. It is unclear whether they would have managed that under the new structure. As they age it is harder and harder to see any realistic replacements. As the team begin to realise how precarious their position is, morale has collapsed. As De Villiers puts it “all hope has gone”. This was already evident in this year's matches when a South African Invitation XI and an “A” team played England: both were thoroughly thrashed – yet they are supposed to represent the future. Players begin to envy men like Ashwell Prince and Alviro Peterson who have done so well by leaving this troubled scene for the calmer world of English county cricket.

The reasons why the Windies imploded are various and are still debated. Undoubtedly part of the problem was the greater financial appeal of basketball and baseball in the US and the consequent loss of talent to cricket, but poor administration also played a part. The extraordinary thing about South Africa's implosion is that it has thus far been engineered entirely by appallingly bad administration. Of one thing there is no doubt: there is no shortage of talent. In addition to the many good Afrikaans and Coloured cricketers we now have great black prospects like Rabada and Bavuma. It is, though, a sad story of how racial politicking can destroy even the best.

RW Johnson

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MozartCaptain49,914 posts
23 Jan 2016, 06:11
#7
23 Jan 2016, 06:11#7
I forgot about Ngam....what a prospect when we first saw him. On the bigger point that political interference has destroyed our cricket, certainly  at the CWC. But in general the talent simply isn't there to replace the giants who have retired. The same is true in rugby.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
23 Jan 2016, 07:43
#8
23 Jan 2016, 07:43#8
 The real situation is that the "greats" in rugby was far from great last year and should have been replaced or never brought back into the Springbok team by Meyer.  They - and in particular Matfield - ultimately cost Meyer his job.   
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DennyCaptain12,893 posts
23 Jan 2016, 07:56
#9
23 Jan 2016, 07:56#9
 Oh dear...thought we're talking cricket with one small comparison to rugby. But hey don't let me stop you, I know where this is going.....
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PlumCaptain21,007 posts
23 Jan 2016, 09:40
#10
23 Jan 2016, 09:40#10
Totally agree Denny. We do have a massive untapped human resource. I doubt we'll see it properly utilised in our lifetimes. Sucks! Haha Moz. I still disagree. We think have got talent.
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clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
23 Jan 2016, 12:44
#11
23 Jan 2016, 12:44#11
 OK
Back to cricket then - how did De Kock really make Mozart look like the fool he is when it comes to SA sport?  The man normally stew in his own juice because he is so stupid.   
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DennyCaptain12,893 posts
23 Jan 2016, 12:52
#12
23 Jan 2016, 12:52#12
 Oh shutup.....you're talking crap man. QDK is playing a far more responsibly innings than in any other test I've seen him play. Like I've said in a previous post, someone needs to sit this boy down and get into his head the difference between ram slam 20/20 and test cricket. Obviously it's been done. I just knew it that if one day the kid came good you'and ou Dawie would be pulling your pants down and shrieking " I told you so".....what exactly has he been doing prior to this?  Geez you're predictable. Don't let your hate blind your rationale!
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clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
23 Jan 2016, 16:42
#13
23 Jan 2016, 16:42#13
 De Kock still scpred at a rate of a run a ball - his s natural game.   Mozart came with a story he cannot bat against spin.  
No hate here - just realism.   The only hate is that of Mozart against De Kock - nothing else.  A guy who made 8 centuries in ODI's can according to Mozart not bat.       
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Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
23 Jan 2016, 18:47
#14
23 Jan 2016, 18:47#14
Cook looks as average as they come and after witnessing that innings I can see why he only has a first class average of 41 as a 33 year old.
What's the point in investing in an average 33 year old....short sighted as it comes.
I can see why Cook has never been picked at test level until we reached desperation stakes aged 33.
v/Zyl is a gifted bat and no doubt long term investment would have seen him come good. 
It's not like he is alone when it comes to SA bats struggling for form.
We need to move on from Faf and JP now....time to invest in Rossouw. Bavuma looks a quality bat and de Kock always had it.

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DennyCaptain12,893 posts
23 Jan 2016, 23:20
#15
23 Jan 2016, 23:20#15
 Mike.....do you understand the difference between taking ownership of your wicket as opposed to playing high risk careless shots? I don't think you have a damn clue because you have Mozart on your brain. I'll say it again QDK up until this innings has been a failure at test cricket and what we witnessed yesterday was a player showing a different and much better application. Apart from one careless stroke he had a measured approach to his strokes, he didn't just rely on hand/eye co-ordination, as a matter of fact he moved well and stroked the ball. Spot the difference?
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DennyCaptain12,893 posts
23 Jan 2016, 23:38
#16
23 Jan 2016, 23:38#16
 PlumYou are hopelessly wrong if you think we have a decent amount of talent. I see talent in Rillee Rossouw and Stiaan Van Zyl......period.
Allrounders...we haven't found one since the departure of Lance Klusener and no-one is tearing down the front door. It's a major concern for a cricketing nation that's produced world class allrounders in the past.Specialist Openers - there's no-one other than Stephen Cook and  before him there was the average Alviro Pieterson.So apart from RR who should replace Duminy there is only Van Zyl Dale Steyn and Morkel are coming to the end of their cycle ....Abbott is not in the same class. I don't know of any suitable replacements.
What talent do you speak of?
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PlumCaptain21,007 posts
24 Jan 2016, 09:52
#17
24 Jan 2016, 09:52#17
@Saffex. Dude I agree 100%. @Denny. The article Blobok put up there says exactly what I did a few post ago. About how the teams morale could have been seriously screwed over by the WC semi. And how it might be possible that some players are still not over it. Hehe you labeled my opinion "A load of crock". Seems I'm not the only who thinks so. As for talented youth coming through. We do have a lot of young guys with talent. Currently, De C0ck, Bavuma, Rossouw, Van Zyl, De Lange, Radaba, Reeza Hendricks and a few others. As far as quality all-rounders. We might not have guys like Kallis, Big Mac or Klusner to pick from right now. But then we have guys that top the world batting and bowling rankings. We never had that back in those days. That's why we relied so heavily on all-rounders. So as much as I'd like to agree with you, i cant. Let's also remember that those great teams of the past that everyone talks about. Did they win in Oz? Did they win in England? Did they win in India? So, how great were they really? If you ask me, Smith, who everybody hates so much, had the best ever(since re-admission) team. A team he helped and a team he was on of the best of players in. And the best all-rounder in that team was Pollock. And for some reason peoppe were always negative about Smith. It's disgraceful how we treat our legends really. Let's try be positive Denny. We have a great new young bowler in Radaba. A couple of world class young batters coming in and our very own Gilchrist too. I worry much more about the administration than I do about the talent. So again, i'm with Saffex on this one.
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DennyCaptain12,893 posts
24 Jan 2016, 13:34
#18
24 Jan 2016, 13:34#18
Your post appeared as an excuse for the loss , mine was based on reasons. Here AB in the  postmatch conference..."The wicket had 400 runs in it"
Kinda seals it.
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PlumCaptain21,007 posts
24 Jan 2016, 15:15
#19
24 Jan 2016, 15:15#19
@Denny. No, my post wasn't excusing anything. My post addressed the possible morale issue in the team. It said that it seems one can track the decline in performances back to the WC semi. And it questioned how ticked off the players must have been...consideting how annoyed us coach commentators were. Similar to what the post above said. Anyway, doesn't matter. How bloody good is Radaba looking? Abbot has been unlucky not to get more.
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DennyCaptain12,893 posts
25 Jan 2016, 03:23
#20
25 Jan 2016, 03:23#20
 "Anyway, doesn't matter." Exactly right. Point is and we would agree that Haroon Lorgat fooked up our WC chances with a selection based on race. From thereon in we differ on why the test team imploded at the Wanderers. You're saying it's a "possible moral" issue and I'm saying that  a"possible moral" issue does not cover things like a middle order batsman being converted into a specialist opener as a proven disaster, a lack of form by the senior players and carrying deadwood like Vilas, Faf and Duminy and that's not including the loss of Dale Steyn through injury.
How now do you justify a "possible moral" issue with the current reversal in form? Going back to the current team there has noticeably been 5 changes which addresses almost all of the problems I've highlighted.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
25 Jan 2016, 08:40
#21
25 Jan 2016, 08:40#21
 Excellent article and hats off to the Johnston. we need more journalists to follow suite. A he mentions ists not only quota players but quota coaches.The racist anc need to be challenged every time. Their racists policies need constant exposing.Time really to boycott racist sport and have SA kicked out of international sport. 
What happens in the workplace is even worse.
The hapless kiwis are only number 1 for one single reason we will not get our house in order. They are thereby default. We should be beating them regularly as they are very pap at forward. Even when we play a tight 4 we have the better of them!!!
Cook at 33 is an emergency choice. Duminy has failed too often. Piedt looks promising and time will tell. Bavuma still has a lot to prove. A test average of 30 is nothing to shout about and a first class average of 38 is really no great shakes. Again time will tell.Abbot lacks wicket taking ability. Morris has talent and should be persevered with. Morkel needs to learn to get the ball in the right spot more often, His control is poor.
Bright spot is Radaba. Bowls good line and length and moves the ball enough to get the edge, Speed is good and should improve further.
All the De kock knockers have been silenced. The lad has always been class and it was inevitable he would come right.
— END OF THREAD —

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