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FORUM / RUGBY /  Has the Game changed since 2009?

Has the Game changed since 2009?

Started by Mozart41 REPLIES799 VIEWS· 16 Dec 2014, 15:41
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MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
16 Dec 2014, 15:41
#1
16 Dec 2014, 15:41#1

I think not. The Bools were using the U&U approach 50 years ago when WP could rely on the glorious running of Gainsford, Jannie Engelbrecht, BP van Zyl, Gert Muller and HO de Villiers. And they were effective. This kind of game has been declared dead many times.....but in the 2009 RC it was dominant.

 

I don't believe all the talk of our opponents learning how to counter the kicking game. I think our execution has declined. Time and again on the YE tour we would loft the ball without any credible chase.

 

 

Don't get me wrong.....there was always room for more strings in our bow. But without a credible kick and chase game, we are less dangerous than Ireland, Wales....maybe the Bargies..... and certainly Oz and NZ.

 

Fix kicking, fix and supercharge the defence, anticipate and revel in the counter attack.....and kick a few drops. Don't fumble at scrummie, kick over the dead ball line, collapse in the scrums and play the man in the air.

 

Old School.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
16 Dec 2014, 17:11
#2
16 Dec 2014, 17:11#2
 Mozart
All the experts and coaches agreed that there were serious changes made since 2009 to make the game a more ball-in-hand game.   
The emphasis now is different from what it was a decade ago.   
However, you were right about the fifites to early eighties - when the backline of the Stormers was superior to the other privnces and they played a more varied game as a result.   However, that style of play died in the 1980's with Naas Botha coming on the scene and although the other teams started making some changes in approach and style of play earliy - the game changes of 2008 and subsequently wasintroduced by virtuallt all teams - also NH teams - while we remained stuck in the rut.
"I don't believe all the talk of our opponents learning how to counter the kicking game. I think our execution has declined. Time and again on the YE tour we would loft the ball without any credible chase."
The above statement is correct - but the problem was never confimed to the EOYT - it was central to the kicking game by virtually all our kickers  since 2009.   The issueis that too many players make aimless and inaccurate kicks and then the chaisers are blamed for not chasing after the ball.
Don't make kicking the only game in town - use i as a variation - scrummies and lflyhalfs read the game properly and take proper decisions - make sure that whichever decision is taken in properly executed -   enhance the Tight 5 so as to at least be on par up front - strengthen the scrumming- recover tackle ball or make turnovers effectively - make sure the players have proper ball skills.
Drop  players not effective in the above requiremeents. 
New School    
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,286 posts
16 Dec 2014, 17:32
#3
16 Dec 2014, 17:32#3
The laws of the game have changed to favour a running game more. This has been an ongoing process. It is one of the reasons that the All Blacks have had their best winning streak in the history of the game- the laws suit their style of play more than the Boks. 
Sometimes it seems as soon as SA start to get the upper hand in an area their is a change of rules. (just after the 2007 world cup the rules changed). Didnt the same thing happen after 2009? 
In 2013 the South African teams did pretty well, even the Kings did well. Most of the tries scored were from driving mauls. The next year surprise surprise, the driving maul laws changed to favour the defending team.
If the laws were made the same as they were in the 70's, South Africa and England would win many more games. Teams with strong ball carriers in the forwards would dominate more. 
Does anyone have a list of all t he rules changes since 1995? 
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
16 Dec 2014, 17:40
#4
16 Dec 2014, 17:40#4

Moz: the game (rules) have changed but some teams have not adapted their game to the new rules .

Incidently, when are you going to upgrade to a colour photo for your avatar picture

BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
16 Dec 2014, 17:48
#5
16 Dec 2014, 17:48#5

There are two aspects to the question, yes the laws have changed and in particularly at the contact area for the up and under.


The receiver is now protected by the law and the chaser must take due care of the safety of the receiver, two yellow cards and two penalties against Habana this November is ample proof of that.


The law at the breakdown has changed in regards to the rights of the tackler and no longer benefits the defensive team.


So there goes your up and under tactics.


Then teams have adapted to the Up and under game, NZ who is our biggest rival dropped Sivivatu and Rococko because they didn't have the necessary aerial skills and now employ three players in the back who are adept at handling the high ball, at least two of them can kick to exit and if the opportunity arises counter from deep.


So yes, a kickathon and defensive gameplan has seen it's arse.

sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,286 posts
16 Dec 2014, 18:06
#6
16 Dec 2014, 18:06#6
I ment to also include what BB has said about the kick and chase. 
This "change" of laws will have a further negative effect on the kicking game. 
It is funny that no one bothered to publish the changes of the rules, and South Africa had to learn by getting penalised out of the game. It is poor that a team has to learn the laws during the match. 
The kick and chase was a 50/50 ball- if the chase was good. However with these changes to favour the defending team, the odds of winning the ball back are much less now. 
The benefactor of the ongoing changes in the rules is NewZealand. The less effective kicking becomes, the less effective ball carrying forwards are. I doubt that England or South Africa would want the recent changes to driving mauls, because they are the best at it.

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
16 Dec 2014, 18:37
#7
16 Dec 2014, 18:37#7
 You make it sound as if the laws of the game and the changes thereof are done by some secret clan and then dump onto us (SA) and that we have to learn them the hard way. 
It does not quite work like that. We have almost always been part and parcel of the mechanism responsible for those changes. At the moment, Nick Mallet is a member of the committee responsible for looking at the laws. Before him, it was Jake White, until he joined the Brumbies.
The law changes always go through an experimental phase. That is when one of the hemispheres normally "try out" the proposed changes. That is when we have the so-called ELVs (Experimental Law Variations). In fact, some of the laws were even tried out in SA before it even reached the ELV stage. The current scrum protocol of crouch, bind, set was first tried in SA Schools competitions, if I am not mistaken.
The changes of the laws can be seen on the IRB laws website. The changes are explained by year, as well as the law clarifications.  I will have a look and get all the links later, and post them for you.
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,286 posts
16 Dec 2014, 19:14
#8
16 Dec 2014, 19:14#8
 Ceradyne
 
Status: Senior player 
Posts: 3754RE: Has the Game changed since 2009?
December 16, 2014, 18:37:05We have "almost always" been part and parcel of the mechanism responsible for those changes. 
(I suppose it was Heineke Meyer who recommended that if the chaser competes in the air it is an penalty. (any contact is an instant penalty). 
The law changes always go through an experimental phase. 
"Really, When did the kick and chase law change go into experimental phase, and when did it become an official law change? "

It was clear that Meyer and the team thought they could complete in the air. 
Most of the changes are driven to keep the ball in play more often and making the game a better spectacle. I would not go as far as say it is a conspiracy but certain law changes will favor some teams more than others. It is not favouring a team with forwards that are strong ball carriers. France, England and South Africa have traditionally had the strongest packs in dominating the advantage line. 
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
16 Dec 2014, 19:27
#9
16 Dec 2014, 19:27#9
 OK Sharkbok, here is some info on the laws and how they are changed and by who.
When it comes to the laws and how the game is played, there are two important committees. 
The first is the the Regulations Committee:The Regulations Committee is responsible for advising the Council on all matters regarding the Regulations Relating to the Game and, in particular:

The second is the Rugby Committee. They are the guys who are responsible for the laws and the changes. There responsibilities are described in the following:
TERMS OF REFERENCE

( i ) To Monitor the Laws of the Game and their effectiveness

( ii ) To Recommend to Council updates and changes to the Laws of the Games as necessary

( iii ) To Recommend to Council the three designated members who will be responsible for determining rulings in law when asked to do so by a Union

( iv ) To Track playing trends in world Rugby and monitoring the Laws and their effectiveness ensuring that the Game continues to be played according to the principles outlined in the Playing Charter

( v ) To Monitor Strategic Initiatives to ensure that the three main strands of the playing of the Game (playing, coaching and officiating) are considered in a holistic and integrated manner

( vi ) To Recommend to Council the membership of the World Rugby Referee Selection Panel

( vii ) To Monitor Strategic Initiatives to assist with the recruitment, training and development of match officials

( viii ) To Consider medical and safety issues related to the playing of the Game

( ix ) To Receive reports from advisory groups and / or working groups (for example in the areas of: Laws, Age Grade, Medical, Womens) on specific issues as requested by itself or the Executive Committee

( x ) To Determine the criteria for international matches

( xi ) To Determine the international matches and tours schedule and playing structure

( xii ) To Debate player welfare issues at high performance level and propose World Rugby policies in this area

( xiii ) To Liaise as necessary with other stakeholders within the Game

( xiv ) To Determine the International Tours Agreement

( xv ) To Deal with other relevant matters which may be referred to it by Council or the Executive Committee


The members of the Rugby Committee are:Stephen Jeffrey (Scotland), Bill Beaumont (England), Giancarlo Dondi (Italy), Michael Hawker (Australia), Chris Le Fevre (Canada), Agustin Pichot (Argentina), Koji Tokumaso (Asia), Pat Whelan (Ireland) and Nick Mallett (South Africa).
Everything about the laws can be found on http://www.irblaws.com/index.php?language=EN The latest law book can also be downloaded from this page. You will note, on the left hand side of the page, that you can view the laws by section or by number. 
If you go to "Law Application Guidelines", you will see the major changes as the came into force from 2009. This is actually the outcome of the work group discussions and how it panned out into law and law applications.
In addition to this, there are also the "Law Clarifications". This happens when a union have a question about the interpretation of a law or a set of laws during a rugby year. The Rugby Committee is responsible to appoint members of a small committee to investigate the enquiry and give a clarification. If the law needs to be amended or changed to accommodate such clarification, it normally gets written into the law book that comes out annually at around the end of May.
You will note that SARU asked for a clarification on the knock-on in May this year and a clarification was given. 
We also asked for a clarification in Oct 2009 and the clarification was then incorporated in the law book.  http://www.irblaws.com/index.php? domain=10&union=SARU&clarification=17






sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,286 posts
16 Dec 2014, 19:32
#10
16 Dec 2014, 19:32#10
Look at SuperXV teams like the Highlanders and Hurricanes. Most of the forward pack are fetchers.  They move the ball away from the first phase contact point as quick as possible  and just run the ball from side to side of the field with their back-line players. 
Often  the contact is on the wing which is miles away from the set piece. Their small moile fetcher forwards just run from side to side of the field to be the first at the ruck. 
The Sharks pack destroyed both of these teams packs in the SuperXV, but their backs could have won all the games with 30% possession. 
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,286 posts
16 Dec 2014, 19:42
#11
16 Dec 2014, 19:42#11
No offence but that is just a copy and paste by searching on Google. 
What I would like is specific details on this law change of not being able to compete in the air- that any contact by the chaser is an instant penalty. 
If the IRB have not followed their own due process, surely then their should be some grievance process that the Boks can follow. 
(It is a bit like an employer changing the work hours from 9-5, to 7-5 without consulting anyone). 
How can a team that is ranked number 2 in the world not be aware of this law change? It is clearly part of the game plan to compete in the air. The one on Hendriks was a a joke. It actually looked like he was in a better position to catch the ball, and the defending jumper made contact with him. If it does turn out that everything is legit- i.e. that the laws were implemented following a transparent and consistent process, then surely Hieneke Meyer has some answering to do.

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
16 Dec 2014, 19:52
#12
16 Dec 2014, 19:52#12
 It is not a copy and paste job from Google, poepol. I have always had a keen interest in the workings of the laws and have my copies of all the law books over the last four or five years as I downloaded them. The only reason why I said that I would come back with the links and info was because the IRB website saw major changes when the changed to World Rugby. It is only the law book and the Sevens sites that are still essentially "IRB" sites.. The rest are now all "World Rugby" sites.
Go to the website and do your own f'ng research yourself. I have already told you where to look and how the site works, FFS. 
HTF can you say that we were not aware of the law changes? Surely you are taking the p!ss, or are you smoking something? I have just showed you how we, and all the other rugby playing nations are in some way or another involved in the law and the changes thereof. 
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
16 Dec 2014, 20:17
#13
16 Dec 2014, 20:17#13
Gosh JW even you NZ chappies should know there was no colour photography when Mozart was around. 
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,286 posts
16 Dec 2014, 20:21
#14
16 Dec 2014, 20:21#14
If this became a formal law, it should be available on their website, and the date the law came into effect after the ELF trial. (if this is the process they allways follow). 

It seems black and white. No competing in the air or an instant penalty awarded to the defending team when their is contact between the 2 jumpers. 
One of Meyers first comments on the match day was that they may as well as not compete in the air if they keep getting penalised. Either he is lying which i doubt, or he was not aware of these law changes. 
Habana is now playing in Europe and he does not appear to be aware of any law changes because he continues to compete in the air. Either the laws have not changed in Europe club competition. Something that stood out this year is that the Boks seemed to get penalised more on this "law". It could just be that the Boks employ kick and chase more in their game plan or that the particular competitions seemed more dangerous. This would be down to individual referee interpretation and not black and white. 
It seems that the law until only during this year that a player can make contact as long as he is going for the ball. Leading with the k nees and elbows was outlawed ages ago. 



CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
16 Dec 2014, 20:24
#15
16 Dec 2014, 20:24#15
 The problem is that the coaches ignored the laws and kept coaching the players in terms of how they used to play 10 years ago.   Reasonable people was aware of the laws - the coacjhes too - but th ey were so bad-arsed - they kept on playing th game as it was played years ago.   
The Aussies and AB's took the lead in adjusting their game first, folloqed by the NH countrie - leaving SA 5 years behind.   Then Meyer waked up to the fact and start to make adjustments - but with Meyer it is always one step forward - three steps backwards.   
One of the fundamentals is that the team has to be competitive up front - but dear Meyer decidd that we can afford losing our competitiveness by selecting has-beens like Gurthro Steenkmp, Bakkies Botha and Victor Matfield.   So good balls is becoming a a rarity and our backline players are constantly under pressure.      
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
16 Dec 2014, 21:12
#16
16 Dec 2014, 21:12#16
 Sharkbok, the laws are clear and everybody knows the laws. It is however possible that it is not all that clear or that there is a possibility of misinterpretation. It is for that reason that there is the possibility of asking for clarification, as I have already pointed out. I have given you two examples where SA has asked for clarification. In one example a decision was made and we were notified. In another there appeared to have been a need for a law change. In that case they gave a clarification, which was communicated to all the unions with an effective date until the clarification was written into law.
As for the Hendricks issue, it was clearly an interpretation of the incident by the referee that was particularly harsh. The problem is that, even if you amend the laws to be purely black or white, you would always have a situation where you will have a human who has to make the decision. In another game, Hendricks would probably not even have been penalised. Sh!t happens.
The law about competing in the air is clear and has been for some time. It is one of the most simple laws in the law book but it always causes a lot of crap. This is the law (Law 10 - Foul Play) as it stands:
10.4 Dangerous play and misconduct
(e) Dangerous tackling. 
A player must not tackle an opponent early, late or dangerously.Sanction: Penalty kick
A player must not tackle (or try to tackle) an opponent above the line of the shoulders even if the tackle starts below the line of the shoulders. A tackle around the opponent’s neck or head is dangerous play.Sanction: Penalty kick
A ‘stiff-arm tackle’ is dangerous play. A player makes a stiff-arm tackle when using a stiff arm to strike an opponent.Sanction: Penalty kick
Playing a player without the ball is dangerous play.Sanction: Penalty kick
A player must not tackle an opponent whose feet are off the ground.Sanction: Penalty kick
You can compete for the ball in the air but you are not allowed to tackle another player in the air. It is up to the ref to decide when it was a matter of competing or tackling. 
It has been like that for ages. Unfortunately my older law books are on another laptop, and I would have confirmed it directly from the law books if you wanted, but I am very sure that that law has not changed in ages.


10.4 Dangerous play and misconduct





DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
16 Dec 2014, 21:16
#17
16 Dec 2014, 21:16#17
 The margins are fcked, please restart the thread.
Interesting but too much PT to read.
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
16 Dec 2014, 21:18
#18
16 Dec 2014, 21:18#18
 No problem this side, Draad.
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
16 Dec 2014, 21:20
#19
16 Dec 2014, 21:20#19
 This is strange, Draad. I just checked. The margins on my laptop are fine, but on my phone, they are stuffed.
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,286 posts
16 Dec 2014, 21:43
#20
16 Dec 2014, 21:43#20
How could any of these competitions in the air be deemed as tackles? Do players now use their backs to make tackles. If it was an intentional shoulder/body charge to put the player off, then perhaps it could be deemed a tackle. However I think most would agree these were all legitimate competitions in the air, and therefore not tackles. (All the Sky presentators during the Wales match said it was a legit competition in the air for the ball).  Even the Australian media commented during the match and afterwards that they all though the Habana competition was legit (ie. not a tackle in the air). 
As it happened more throughout the year, then finally in the Wales game it prompted Meyer to say that they would rather not compete in the air due to the risk of giving away penalties. If it is not a tackle, then how can it be a penalty for a tackle in the air.



CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
16 Dec 2014, 22:01
#21
16 Dec 2014, 22:01#21
 I understand your anger, SB, and I was just as p!ssed of as you, if not more.  Fact is that it is not the law that is the problem here. It is clear as daylight. It is one of those things where a ref made a mistake. Fact is that players make mistakes all the time as well. We have also had advantages due to refs' mistakes at times. Remember the try last year when Jaque Fourie was miles off-side?
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,286 posts
16 Dec 2014, 22:28
#22
16 Dec 2014, 22:28#22
I think the referees are using their own discretion as to when a contest is dangerous. South Africa seems to have gotten more bad calls than the other teams put together.It has become fashionable to penalise the Boks for competing in the air, but allowing the home team to compete in the air 
If it is not the written "formal law" then the Boks should feel aggrieved because it is not the law, it is an interpretation by the referee on the day that the competition was dangerous. 
The precedent of the law is that contact is allowed, if competing for the ball- "then it is not a tackle". It is competing for the ball, which neither teams has, so their can be no tackle. Why has this suddenly changed? (I do remember an article by the IRB after the match in Australia where they were criticising their own referees. 
The ref can make mistakes if they did not see something, but surely if they have the big screen they can check if the competition is dangerous.
It could be, of has been decided that any contact is dangerous. So the law should state that a player can only compete if their is no contact. 
Then if a ref misses if their is contact or not, then they have made a mistake. Fine. However why can the referee re-interpret the laws to change any written or precedent? Who has given them this authority. 
BL
BlikkiesPro1,526 posts
16 Dec 2014, 22:31
#23
16 Dec 2014, 22:31#23
 

"The receiver is now protected by the law and the chaser must take due care of the safety of the receiver, two yellow cards and two penalties against Habana this November is ample proof of that." - Biltongbek


The question is who is the receiver?

Most will say it is any player in the opposing team, but is that correct? Is it not the aim that when I kick an up and under, that one of my players should catch the ball and thus can be considered as the intended receiver?

The same argument applies when say the flyhalf launches a cross kick for his wing to catch.

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
16 Dec 2014, 22:34
#24
16 Dec 2014, 22:34#24
 Vlag, its the adds, you have a addblocker on your PC/LT. I can't do it on my phone .@$//@@//#@##@!!!##$
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
16 Dec 2014, 22:37
#25
16 Dec 2014, 22:37#25
 Vlag, its the adds, you have a addblocker on your PC/LT. I can't do it on my phone.@$//@@//#@##@!!!##$
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
17 Dec 2014, 03:17
#26
17 Dec 2014, 03:17#26
Good point Blikkies. In the case of the yellow on  Hendricks there were two receivers. This was simply a poor call. I see no reason why a well executed kick and chase can't work today.
BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
17 Dec 2014, 05:49
#27
17 Dec 2014, 05:49#27
The reciever is the player kicked on to, the bloke jumping in the air, Hendricks was the chaser, the chaser is the guy who runs towards the ball from behind the kicker. 
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
17 Dec 2014, 06:30
#28
17 Dec 2014, 06:30#28
True, but there were two players with an equally good chance at the ball. Halfpenny got his hands on the ball first .....Hendricks didn't even though he was contesting the ball. My guess is it's going to be a bit like soccer going forward, get a piece of the ball and you are in better shape. Maybe a bit more vigilance is required than in the past, but the effective " chaser" should be able to get to the ball, and if not to bury the receiver well down field.
BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
17 Dec 2014, 06:45
#29
17 Dec 2014, 06:45#29
Well, whoever of the recievers are in the air, don't bloody touch them, simple 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
17 Dec 2014, 07:55
#30
17 Dec 2014, 07:55#30
 Mozart
You keep on shying away from the fact that the kick and chase game is not a viable option as a primary objective in rugby.   and in essence it means handing ball ossession over to the opposition.   There is still a slight possibility of the receiver making a ball handling error or the kick is away from the recevier and he is cornered by a number of chasers - but that again is not a definite. 
Lets face facts - kicking is not the most important primary function of scrummies and flyhalfs anymore.  If they kick - the kicks must be pin-point accurate - not too far ahead of the play and chaseble - much like Lambie's kick in the English test.
Teeritory gain is possible if a player is a good enough kicker to kick the ball over the head of the last line of players, land withinthe field of play and bouncd into touch.    The only SA flyhalf capable to really do that is Goosen.   
The problem is the moment you start off a thread putting a priority on the kicking game - you have lost the game.   Kicking remains an integral part of the game - not a primary part.   It should be used judiciously and as an alternative - not as a rule. It should have a purpose  and be accurate.
Problem is your argument centers basically around two players whom you credit as being the best around - namely Francois Steyun and Morne Steyn - two of the most inaccurate and aimless habitual kickers in SA Rugby.    Being that they destroy alternative methods of attack by the SA backline and cause the dead backline syndrome bedevilling most SA teams.   
You blame the centers - but the problem is not the cen ters - it is what they reveive from the flyhalfs that is the real problem.   
    
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
17 Dec 2014, 08:23
#31
17 Dec 2014, 08:23#31
 The whole problem boils down to bent refs. Thanks Sharkbok for highlighting the problems in an honest manner. Until SARU and Bok fans protest as strongly as possible this cheating will continue.Meyer if free would call this cheating. So blatant does it become the mind boggles. Eg the Bissie tackle on carter. Or mcheats two yellows in 140 test (per Draad) - laughable really. Or the fact that the Boks get twice as many yellows as the wee abs when these two sides meet.We need an in depth analysis of all this. Then it should be made public no sweeping it under the carpet.The most stupid conclusion to reach is "sh  it happens" and trust ou cerudunce windpomp to be the one reaching that conclusion. But this halfwit thought Bryce Lawrence made mistakes but against both sides. He couldnt spot a bent ref no matter what. Cerudunce windpomp undisputed  winner the twit of the year comp 


Bent refs are the issue. Get rid of them and the "mistakes" will shrink drastically. Further there will be a reasonable chance of them being given against each of the two teams. Not all, or the vast majority, of the bad calls going against one side.
The up and under  and the rolling maul were two effective Bok tactics. All we are seeing are steps being taken to counter this - legally or illegally.
All we continue to see is ref "mistakes" robbing us of one test after another. On the other side of the coin we have the wee abs winning test after test through RAWs - the contrast is vivid and cannot be missed by any half awake unbiased rugby fan.

JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
17 Dec 2014, 08:45
#32
17 Dec 2014, 08:45#32
 Moz: I believe they had color paintings & color photos of color paintings. Plenty of good choices Moz
Modernize Mozart
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
17 Dec 2014, 08:52
#33
17 Dec 2014, 08:52#33
 JW Dr Mozzzz is stuck in a time warp. We have to bring our friend through and launch him into the 21st century! Now he is harkening back to Dr Danie Craven!! 
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
17 Dec 2014, 08:59
#34
17 Dec 2014, 08:59#34
Beeno: how about this one, it shows Moz' intelligence, class & playful/whimsical nature?
Some might call him childish but others will say he is f orever young mumbled the fair-minded kiwi
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
17 Dec 2014, 09:07
#35
17 Dec 2014, 09:07#35
 Much better JW. Lets hope Dr Mozzzz updates his avatar and his views on rugby. W e shall have to keep encouraging him! 
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
17 Dec 2014, 10:09
#36
17 Dec 2014, 10:09#36
 Moz, do you play the piano  or klavecimbel perhaps?
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
17 Dec 2014, 11:16
#37
17 Dec 2014, 11:16#37

biltongbek

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 747 RE: Has the Game changed since 2009?
December 17, 2014, 05:49:34 The reciever is the player kicked on to, the bloke jumping in the air, Hendricks was the chaser, the chaser is the guy who runs towards the ball from behind the kicker. 


  • 0 Likes
 
You guys are over-complicating things. The laws do not specify "receiver", "chaser" or whatever BS terminology we want to come up with. It simply says that you are not allowed to tackle a player with his feet off the ground. Most of the bulltwang is stuff that is dreamt up by commentators, while some are used by referees to try and explain how they are assessing the situations.

An up and under kick that is followed up is meant for someone, hopefully one of your own team mates, to retain the ball. Therefore the "receiver" might well be one of the kicker's team mates and the "tackler" might well be one of the opposition payers. My take on it is that, the moment that one of the players touch the other without the clear intention of going for the ball, he has tackled the player with his feet off the ground. That is what the referee has to decide, i.e. did he go for the ball or did he tackle the player in the air.

The law has not been "secretly changed" without informing SARU, as was suggested. It has been unchanged for ages.

If the spectators, and most importantly, the commentators really knew the laws well enough, we would not have most of the arguments, about the laws, that we normally have.

There are a number of things that the commentators get wrong and then they confuse some of the spectators with their BS. Some are:

The so-called downward pressure that is required for a try to be scored. There is no such law. In fact, it clearly says "no downward pressure is required. There is one instance where downward pressure is required, though, but it has slipped my mind now. I will look it up again.

The "slingshot".
I remember watching a game reffed by Craig Joubert. He penalised one of the no 8s for "slingshotting". Bob Skinstadt said that there is no such law and that Joubert was "making up laws on the fly". Fact is that there was such a law, at the time. I have not checked of it is still there, TBH. The no 8 had to bind with the rest of the pack. What some of them did was to "hang back" on the engage and then hit in slightly after "the hit" in order to provide a bit of extra forward momentum to the scrum. The refs called that "slingshotting".

The red/yellow card.
Another commentator's favourite. How often do we hear the expression: "That is a straight yellow/red card......"? There is no such thing. Nowhere in the lawbook is there a single law that prescribe a sanction of a specific card. The decision to send off or suspend a player is solely the ref's. The cards are only mentioned in two or three places in the laws. The one is under the definitions, to explain what a yellow and a red card is, the other is where it says that the ref has to carry a yellow and a red card and the third is where the meaning of the cards, i.e. yellow for temporary suspension and red for a send off, is explained. The only sanctions that are prescribed in the laws,  are a scrum, a free kick or a penalty.

A bit of trivia.

  1. There are only two instances where there is a choice of sanction. The first is that when a penalty is awarded, the non offending side has the choice of taking the penalty or they can choose to have a scrum. The second is when one of the teams knock the ball on and the ball goes over the touch line, from the knock-on, then the non-offending team has a choice to either accept the line-out or have a scrum for the knock-on.
  2. A try can be scored with the try scorer having even both his feet outside the field of play. If I am not mistaken, this is the instance where downward pressure is required, as I have said, above.
  3. A player can get red carded any time during the game for something that he did or did not do even before the game. The ref has to confirm that the players have all the correct gear on, before the game. If he spots a player with something illegal, he has to order him to remove it. If,  any time after the game has started, he notices that the player has not complied, he can send him off.

TT
The_TruthClub Pro471 posts
17 Dec 2014, 11:35
#38
17 Dec 2014, 11:35#38
 Has the Game changed since 2009?

No.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
17 Dec 2014, 13:08
#39
17 Dec 2014, 13:08#39
 The Trooth Fairy
Nothing hs changed on Cloud 9 - has it?  In th actual world you missed the sitution altogether - but then you are used to Bulls Rugby - where nothing has changed - while the rest of the rugby world moved on.   

What a pity that the Bulls fell behind so badly that even the Lions beats them with ease.
TT
The_TruthClub Pro471 posts
17 Dec 2014, 14:22
#40
17 Dec 2014, 14:22#40
 Uhm, seems the rest of the world moved on a few steps ahead of you. In 2008
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