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FORUM / RUGBY /  Hi from Argieland!

Hi from Argieland!

Started by JCruzPC19 REPLIES378 VIEWS· 25 Sept 2012, 08:58
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JC
JCruzPCRookie21 posts
25 Sept 2012, 08:58
#1
25 Sept 2012, 08:58#1

Hey everyone!

Just wanted to introduce myself. I have been lurking in these forums for a while, 'til I decided I could contribute a bit around here!

I'm Juan. Born and raised in Argentina (although my Dad's a Capetonian). I currently play for a local team here in Arg and am a total Rugby nut. I watch every single game of every league out there (except for the ITM), and spend hours reading about tactics, conditioning, and such. A few hours ago I attended a Rugby Forum with Dave Rennie and Wayne Smith, which was simply outstanding. I relish the technicality of this sport and love discussing it with everyone.

I'm an ardent WP & Stormers supporter, so... well... ehm... topic change! ;)

I'm looking forward to the serious discussions, the banter, and such! Hopefully I can contribute with extensive info on Argentine Rugby and the National Squad.

See you around!

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
25 Sept 2012, 09:59
#2
25 Sept 2012, 09:59#2

Cruz

Welcome to the board - and I hope you enjoy the issues being dealt with here.   However, being a WP supporter may be a cue for some unfair comments - so be careful about that one.   I am not really a supporter of any provincial team in SA - but have a sneaking regard for the Sharks and WP - the former because I have been residing in KwaZulu-Natal since 1974 - the  latter because I was borne and brought up in the South Western Cape.

In any event - where in Argentina are you staying?  By the way - I hope Argentina give the All Blacks a real come-uppance this weekend and I strongly support them in this case.   Somebody must beat that arrogant blighters - and it does seem that the Springboks will not be able to - they are shooting themselves in the foot all the time. 

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
25 Sept 2012, 10:29
#3
25 Sept 2012, 10:29#3

Yes welcome indeed Cruz, those are ever ygood credentials. You have clealry identified SAs premier side to support!

I take this opportunity to wish you well against the Kiwis who currently  imagine they are unbeatable - an illusion which will be shattered.

BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
25 Sept 2012, 12:46
#4
25 Sept 2012, 12:46#4

Yes welcome Cruz. We have one or two other Argies chatting here and it is great to see more people from that side of the world giving their opinions. Can't say I like the SA team you support, but hey, nobody is perfect! LOL

DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
25 Sept 2012, 14:34
#5
25 Sept 2012, 14:34#5

Welcome aboard Cruz, I say the forum can only benefit from posters with your credentials. I  wish you a long and happy stay and  look forward to reading your posts.

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
25 Sept 2012, 16:39
#6
25 Sept 2012, 16:39#6

I remarked recently that an Argie poster would be a great addition.....so welcome. I hope you enjoy posting here.

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
25 Sept 2012, 16:42
#7
25 Sept 2012, 16:42#7

Cruz I was wondering abou tthe Argie scrum. Its not bad but not as good as usual. Where are the big scrummagers. Ronchero looks over the hill now?

 

JC
JCruzPCRookie21 posts
25 Sept 2012, 18:29
#8
25 Sept 2012, 18:29#8

Thanks guys!

No worries mike... at home I'm the sole WP supporter among a group of Cheetahs and Sharks fans... hehe

 

Beeno - it's quite a complex issue, I'd say.

 

The "Bajada" scrum had some peculiarities. Instead of trying to win the collision, we are tought to "absorb" the hit, and then shove back as a unit, using specific angles and binding (locks wrap their hands and forearms around the props' thighs and not around the waist). All the power is conducted through the hooker.

 

The problem is that this system requires an entire Argie tight five to work. Most of our players play their trade in Europe, where they rarely get the chance to pack alongside each other. This forces them to scrum in the traditional fashion -- and progressively "erodes" the "feel" for the Bajada scrum. Add to that the fact that in many pro teams nowadays, it's the eightman who manages the tempo of the scrum. Back in the 90s it was the hooker.

 

Roncero is no longer the scrummaging force he used to be -- he's 35 and took quite a beating during his career. He's still an exceptional prop in my opinion, tackles like a beast, carries well, has good fetching technique... Ayerza is arguably a better prop, but Roncero is critical to the Argie squad as he leads by example. I've watched them train and he does everything with such intensity and passion, that he ignites the team.

 

Figallo (our tighthead) is a great prospect in my opinion. Despite being 24 years old, he's cemented his place as our starting tighthead. In reality, he played all his career as loosehead. In Montpellier he's used as a LH too. Phelan suggested him the switch to TH as our depth there was vanishing with the retirement of Martín Scelzo (Marcos Ayerza played as tighthead in 2009, against England, and did reasonably well). Juan Figallo is adapting well, I'd say. He's similar to Roncero in that he's quite mobile, and has a good fetching technique.

 

We have interesting TH props coming through though - Maximiliano Bustos & Roberto Tejerizo.

 

Hooker is the real concern here. Our first choice hooker is Agustín Creevy (he's coming back from injury, hence Guiñazú starting). Creevy is a player in the Bismarck mould. Former backrower, same type of physique, quite mobile, has great hands (nicknamed "Sonny Bill Creevy" in Montpellier for his offloads), carries well, and is a ball scavenger. He's still getting used to the position, so his throwing is suspect, and his scrummaging is not up to scratch yet.

 

Guiñazú is a strange player. He's capable of playing anywhere in the front row. This year he's lost some weight and improved a bit. But he lacks mobility and power. He played reasonably well thus far (especially in Mendoza), but we could do better. We have some interesting prospects coming down the pipeline though: Bruno Postiglioni (played for Pampas XV) & Nahuel Lobo (also former Pampas XV, now playing in Montpellier under Mario Ledesma's coaching). With some luck, they'll be used during the November tests.

 

I expect our scrum to improve against the ABs. Why? Federico Méndez, one hell of a prop (and former Natal player), has joined the coaching staff with the sole purpose of smoothing out the inconsistencies.

 

Hope that was somewhat informative!

 

EDIT: Mike -- I'm based in Buenos Aires.

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
25 Sept 2012, 18:42
#9
25 Sept 2012, 18:42#9

Great post Cruz and I am sure that now your national side is getting together like this they will get back to the famed Bajada scrum. If you can lift the power of the pack more you will certainly be in with a big shout as the losess have been very respectable.

Hope srum takes off against abs - that would be a great game to win!!!

 

JC
JCruzPCRookie21 posts
25 Sept 2012, 18:50
#10
25 Sept 2012, 18:50#10

Thanks Beeno. I enjoy your posts as well.

I've got tickets for the game -- I'm going with all my team mates and Family. The ABs are in for a different experience regarding crowds. If they think Newlands is hostile, they'll be shocked. There's ads on TV stirring people upon hugging each other during the Haka, and yelling the lines of our National Anthem.

This is what our stadiums feel like during games:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CE_V9Sl84NU

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
25 Sept 2012, 18:58
#11
25 Sept 2012, 18:58#11

I have said on this Board I think Argentina is a super power in the making. having home tests like this will certainly also swell interest in the game and earn some useful revenue.

There is no doubt whatsoever that the Rugby Champoionship is the pinnacle of competitions,. Not too long and we will have I to 4 on the wolrd rankings.

What has often impressed me about the Argies is that they have managed to be physical with a relatively small pack. usually in the 880 kgs?  I also think your backline defence has improved markedly. The backs are nimble footed and dangerous.

Well I do wonder how things will stand in even 3 years time!

Great to have an Argie on board.

We are a bit short on NH types though. Perhaps they dont have too much to shout about . Hahhahahahaha

I am out of here now but will check your You Tube ref out tomorrow.

 

JC
JCruzPCRookie21 posts
25 Sept 2012, 19:19
#12
25 Sept 2012, 19:19#12

I agree Beeno -- last Saturday after playing, I saw a big queue forming in front of the admissions' office in my club. All kids with their parents. It's quite inspirational.

 

As for the physicality of our players, I think that comes down to psychology. I'm 18, started playing when I was 4. I'm a tighthead lock (and occasional blindside flank). Here our coaches enforce physicality from the very beginning. I remember my first coach telling me: "Every single tackle, every clean out, every drive, every maul... must be undertaken as if you're in the dying minutes of a World Cup Final."

 

The "lightness" of our back resides in the back row.

 

Roncero: 108 kg

Guiñazú: 114 kg

Figallo: 115 kg

Carizza: 119 kg

Albacete: 120 kg

Farías Cabello: 110 kg

Leguizamón: 105 kg

Lobbe: 102 kg

 

They look bigger than that, especially Lobbe. But who knows.

 

Our backline defence is the work of Martín Gaitán, former Biarritz centre. He played for Los Pumas until a cardiac arrest almost took his life. Gaitán used Biarritz's old school defensive system (the "narrow line") and tweaked it for the modern game. Our backs are great tacklers: Hernández - Fernández - Bosch form a great defensive unit. Camacho -- despite his diminutive size -- plays like a pocket sized loosie. Agulla is no slouch defensively either. Gurruchaga is sound but he's prone to severe brain farts in key moments that end up costing tries (England during the WC, and the first try against the ABs where he rushed up instead of drifting out like the rest, thus creating an overlap himself).

 

Our backline is quite a weird one. Both our centres are actual fly-halves. We lack actual penetration since their instinct is to pass, not to attack. Countless times we see the same: scrum half to Hernández... to Fernández... then to Bosch... nobody attacks so by the time the ball gets to channel 3, Agulla or Camacho have 3 defenders on their faces... all they can hope for is to wriggle a few metres here and there.

 

Phelan is a conservative coach and refuses terminantly to try alternative line-ups, like Agulla at 12, or the really dangerous Juan Imhoff at wing.

 

Manuel Montero is the solution. He's 20 years old, 193 cm, and weighs in at 103 kg. And he's not overly muscular, so he has some growing to do. He currently plays as wing (played for Pampas XV). Great ball carrier and quite nimble as well! Many experts hope Phelan will see the light and groom Montero as an outside centre. He will provide some hard nosed crash ball needed to gain momentum and unleash our nimble backs out wide without looking sterile.

 

 

CA
canrugbyClub Pro640 posts
25 Sept 2012, 20:00
#13
25 Sept 2012, 20:00#13

Welcome to the boards, Cruz! :)

 

I'm also a WP / Stormers fan. Also the lone voice on here from Canada to, I think.....or Canadian Rugby anyway.

 

Are you going to be watching, or following the Americas Rugby Championship this year in October?? Your boys are the defending Champions.

KI
KitchenerClub Pro612 posts
25 Sept 2012, 22:00
#14
25 Sept 2012, 22:00#14

hey Cruz, my dad is allways going on about Hugo Porta being the best flyhalf he ever saw. did u see Porta play & if so do u rate him as 1 of the alltime greats? 

AJ
Arthur JohnPro1,748 posts
26 Sept 2012, 02:08
#15
26 Sept 2012, 02:08#15

 Yes he was a great #10....surely the best Argentina has produced thus far.

But so were:

Cliff Morgan, Keith Oxlee, Gerald Bosch, Wilkenson and a host of others not so long ago.

 

JC
JCruzPCRookie21 posts
26 Sept 2012, 05:46
#16
26 Sept 2012, 05:46#16

canrugby

Yes, I'll be following it closely. Some U20 players have made the jump to the Jaguars and I'm really interested in their development.

 

Jalapeno

Yes, I know Porta. Personally. You can find him at his club (Banco Nación) every Tuesday, overseeing stuff and sometimes playing a bit. He's really gentle -- a couple of times I saw him assisting kids with their kicking technique. He was one hell of a player. His kicking prowess was exceptional -- he was capable of dishing out some deadly chip kicks with both feet. He single handedly gave Argentina some unexpected results against the ABs, and such.

BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
26 Sept 2012, 11:40
#17
26 Sept 2012, 11:40#17

Cruz, I jsut want to say again how good it is to have you here. After reading your last few comments, it is obvious that you have a proper understanding of rugby from a technical point of view. Some very good posts.

 

Also, I hope you keep posting even when our two countries are not involved in a tournament against each other. Would love to hear your take on Super Rugby (Even though you support the wrong team!) Currie Cup and etc.

DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
26 Sept 2012, 13:57
#18
26 Sept 2012, 13:57#18

Cruz

We were always hoping to make the forum an international arena, so your prescence is welcomed for many reasons, thus far we have a healthy sprinkling of Kiwis, one Ozzie(Redman) and a Canadian. We can do with a few more of your countrymen, it would be great if you can encourage a few of your mates to join us right here in the world of Union and give us the Argintinian perspective.

 

cheers

 

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
26 Sept 2012, 14:17
#19
26 Sept 2012, 14:17#19

Now listen here my man Sharkbok - Cruz obviously knows his rugby and clearly wishes to support SAs premier side. Lets leave it at that! 

Yes the pack is lighter than it should be and Ronchero is the main culprit. Anyhow it looks as if you have guys in the pipeline for sure. Surprised at Lobbe being only 102 kg

I thnk Hugo Porta was an all time great. He could stop on a dime and change direction. Has to be a candidate for best ever flyhalf. Was at his most dangerous standing still.

JC
JCruzPCRookie21 posts
26 Sept 2012, 19:26
#20
26 Sept 2012, 19:26#20

Bluebok

Thanks mate. Of course I will - Super XV is my favourite competition by far. My Father is a Saffa, so we usually fly to SA for the summer and catch a few games there.

 

Denny

For sure. My club mates check this site and the forums on a regular basis. It's a matter of time 'til they decide to register and start posting.

 

Beeno

Roncero lost a couple kg because of a back injury. He used to be in the 113 kg mark. As for Lobbe -- yeah, he looks WAY bigger than that. Sometimes I think the data is awfully wrong.

— END OF THREAD —

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