I count a swing of 31 points gifted the ABs by Bools

Check it out for yourself on this summary video.......http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCNU_3McCcQ.  Counting Bok points lost by Bools and points gifted to the ABs by Bools.....we have a swing of 31 points. Sound exaggerated? Here they are:

1) A Kirchner pass thrown without drawing the last defender and then thrown behind Habana. At least 5 easy points lost.

2) A poor Kirchner tackle on Hoare providing ABs quick ball....and then a neither fish nor fowl tackle by Hougaard on Whitelock, which gave him the easy offload to Dagg.  5 points.

3) Two missed penalties by Morne.....from reasonable range.  6 points.

4) A missed conversion by Morne....2 points.

5) Greyling penalty.....3 points.

6) Greyling charges Smith rather than holding his ground, gets beaten, Flip Flop gets gassed and Kirchner, that pathetic tackler,  doesn't force Smith to commit outside allowing the easy step and a try/conversion. ....7 points.

7) Flip fails to drive over Bekker as he is tackled.....Bekker holds on for a penalty. The ball comes off the post and the Bok bonus point is still alive. Then Greyling flops on the wrong side of the ruck....3 points.

That's a massive negative contribution from just one S15 team......but they were really pretty poor throughout the S15....and many of these mistakes.......poor passing, ineffective tackling and dirty play......were evident throughout the S15.

Kirchner, Morne and Greyling were the chief architects of NZ's win.

Whatcha bitchin bout, they let Boks have 11points, ingrate.

First Killa and now this moron. Has some kind of worm hole opened?

It could even be more - Meyer missed a total of 4 kicks at goal - ie there is one penalty you did not count.   Then the issue of Kirchner - he was amongst the forwards when he tried to tackle Hore - what was he doing there and not in the proper full back position.    I would not blame Hougaard entirely - he did tackle properly - but if Kirchner was in his appropriate position that try could have been avoided.   But there is one fact here - and that is that Kirchner is a useless defender in any case - so even if he was in a position to tackle Dagg - he would not have been successful.

I also counted 31points Mozzie and then I woke up ;-))

Kirchner's positional play in several phases of the game was downright awful in my opinion.

One thing I noticed was that the Boks seemed unable to grasp the ABs pattern on attack. They do have a pattern that they repeat over and over and that could've been exploited. They often use Conrad Smith as a pivot to fix a couple defenders. Argentina read that well and shut him down several times.

Greyling had one nightmare of a game. I'd understand if he found himself out of sorts at test level -- but the range of penalties he commited were infantile. If you rewatch the game, you'll also notice that he was the one who rushed to pick on Aaron Smith when he picked up the ball, leaving the gap he finally ran into.

Moz you are omitting the two missed kicks by Steyn and one by Goosen. So make that 40 points. Less the ten nz won by and we had the potential to be 30 points better.

Now that is why I wonder at this pessimism. Isee now there are injury cocerns re Frans and Goosen and JP will notbe back. Well this bad luck cannot continue and I am confient that 2013 will mark a turn about.

Still it will be great to win the home tests - we shall see.

Hakwa believe me you were not dreaming mate. That nightmare was reality.

Beeno - I tend to agree with you aboiut the other three missed kicks.  However, it must be borne in mind that two of those kicks were just about outside of the normal range of both Steyn and Goosen - but they missed by about two meters in both cases.  Morne's missed kicks at goal - howeer - can never be justified on the basis of distance and angle - he just was extremely poor.  

 When are you guys going to stick together as one country?

All I see are posts from most of you criticising either the Bulls, Stormers or Sharks players performances within a Bok game. And that's in addition to blaming the coach for his Bulls' tactics.

I hope the Bok players don't read all these divisive comments. How do you think they will ever be able to perform as a TEAM when it really matters?

Morne was poor, and I feel it is now time for Goosen to shine, but seriously guys, this "Bools fault" crap is just stupid. Maybe we should blame "Province's" Jean De Villiers for being a rubbish captain and not taking Morne off kicking duties much earlier. Or the Shark's Beast and Jannie for being lazy penalty machines, or F Steyn for missing penalties that although were long shots, he should have made them because they are his speciality etc etc etc. This is the national side, and should be judged as such. My point is simple, judge each player on his performance for the Bok's, who cares what province they play for? 

Mistakes were made in the game, but they were mistakes by the Springboks....why the failure of the springbok side is the fault of the Blue Bulls Company, is a bit of a mystery to me. 

Idiots! 

Moolaa, it seems we were typing the same message at the same time...I agree 100%

 no, really Beeno, I woke to find that the ABs had won :D, although I do agree with you that it would have been a nightmare for those less fortunate who were cheering for the other Team - know of anyone Beeno? :D

Don't forget the pass JDV also threw into touch, opportunity also gone begging.

Hakwa never be misled by the scoreboard. Often it flatters to deceive. Realism Hakwa is the name of the game you need to look beyong the scoreline. Take a tranquiliser before you do that!

Actually I posted this just as a curiosity.....and in part because the selection of Potgieter, Kirchner and Greyling  was so wrong. I never included Fransie's missed kicks or JdVs pass, because they aren't Bools. My point being the Bools played really badly in this game and Meyer needs to lose all his provincial affiliations if he wants to be a great Bok coach. I would still pick Hougaard in a heartbeat, but I don't think there is another Bool who should be a Bok starter, now that Morne has imploded.

The Bools had a great team, but now it is gone. The players who have replaced the likes of Bakkies and Victor are a big step down. It's rather sad and certainly nobody's fault.....but continuing to pick these guys for the Boks is stupid.

Its been a while since I have seen an abs pack on the back foot lik ethey were on Saturday. To me a lock pairing of Flip and Etzebeth would be fine with Bekker on the bench. Bakkies was a great but wee matfield  - a big NO. You do not get forward domination playing a tight 4.

Meyer is getting the pack right. When Goosen comes in and the Boks get a scrummie  who is dynamic the whole backline will benefit. Goosen I believe can play both an attacking game and a kicking game. Let him run the show.  Play Taute or Lambie at fullback as well.

I think Beast & Jannie are not playing really well. They seem somewhat devoid of intensity. Would love to see Gurthro & Mujati in the mix.

If all Boks were fit, this would be my 22:

1- Steenkamp

2- BDP

3- Coenie

4-Elstadt

5-Etzebeth

6-Brussow

7-Coetzee

8-Vermeulen

9-Pienaar (he's capable of providing quick service when he has a solid fly-half behind him)

10-Lambie

11-Hougaard

12-Frans Steyn

13-Jordaan

14-JP

15-Taute

Bench:

16-Strauss or Chilliboy

17-Beast

18-Flip van der Merwe (only if he keeps his discipline under control)

19-Alberts

20-van Zyl

21-Goosen (good to unleash a halfback pairing that actually plays together)

22-Ludik maybe..?

I agree Beeno, you probably would have been on tranquilisers to look beyond the scoreline! :D - was that the same thing you said about the Wobblies and the Argies???Lols!

Cruz

Like your suggested team very much  but for Brussow - who has been very disappointing in the recent CC Games.    Under the circumstances I would prefer Louw at 6.   Like Taute at full back - plus Jordaan at outside center.   Tht is very likely what is going to happen in the coming year.

It would be difficult at this stage not to pick Habana as a wing - but Habana is getting a bit long in the tooth and my choice for replacing him would be Hougaard.

Mike

Agreed on Brussow. He isn't having a good season thus far. It's a pity because he's a good player, and IMO would provide much more balance to the Bok backrow.

I picked Elstadt because I do not see Etzebeth as a tighthead lock. Yes, he's big, tough, and such, but I believe he lacks presence in the tight. Elstadt is more of a "to the ball" kind of player. I feel there's no need for a "lineout kingpin" within the Bok squad. Boks should be able to field 2 all-round locks.

I'd also love to see Deon Fourie tried out at flank for the Boks. IMO his throwing and scrummaging are nowhere near Test level. He's a good fetcher (with awesome technique), very mobile, fit, and while not a behemoth with ball in hand, he runs good lines.

Cruz

Something else I would like to ask you since you have an excellent rugby brain.    Don't you think it would not help if Argentina could ask to field not only the Pampas in the Vodacom Cup - but also a team in the Curry Cup?   I think it would create the opportunity for further enhancing rugby in Argentina - especially as to the introduction of a professinl game there.   Should they not try and convince the SARU to go further than they have gone iro of the Pampas?

Secondly - you mentioned elsewhere that you play as a lock and sometimes as a loosie.   Any chance of us seeing you play on higher level?   Hope so - as I said you have the brains to be a top class intelligent player.

Mike

Thanks mate.

Well, there's already talk of moving Pampas XV to the Currie Cup First Division, for further exposition to Professional Rugby. Agustín Pichot is always working behind the scenes to further develop our system. So far Pampas XV has been what Argentina needed: young players getting a sniff at a fully-fledged professional competition. Years ago they jumped from hardcore amateurism into a Pumas jersey.

As for your second question -- yes, there might be a chance. I currently play in the domestic league here, and in February I was told that IF I maitain the same level of performances, I'll be admitted into the PlAR (Plan de Alto Rendimiento / High Performance Plan). I'm working hard towards that goal. Getting top notch conditioning could be the stepping stone into semi-pro teams (like Pampas), and hopefully one day, higher honours.

If I had to describe myself as a player, I'd say I'm a player in the Elstadt mould (I'm 18, 196 cm and 113 kg. But with some added traits. I've played Basketball my entire life as well -- so I have really good handling and passing skills. I'm working hard on my offloading game (since Henry arrived our coaches have been adopting several new skill drills to develop young players).

Cruz

Excellent news about yourself.   I am really looking forward to see you play in the CC.   You have my best wishes in that regard.   Hard work to achieve success is always an essential - so keep it up.

Meantime - I still hope you teach the All Blacks and the Wallabies a lesson in the forthcoming tests - that is never to under-estimate a team from Argentina.

Cruz

Allow me to add something else.   People in general have a very limited memory of great rugby players - they always only talk of present day players.

I can remember that when Porta was at his peak - he was always in the so-called World team selected by experts as first choice flyhalf.   At the time he really was regarded as a rugby great.    If anybody really wants to know about him - they should ask Naas Botha - who at that time said he is trying to style his own game according to the example set by Porta.   The New Zealanders talk about Carter as the greatest flyhalf ever - but I would say it was Porta.   He was a decade or more ahead of his time insofar as flyhalf play is concerned.

The other top Argentine player was Pichot - also one for the World Team of his era.   He was a better scrummie than we ever had since 1992 and better than anybody at present in the game.   The present players could learn by watching videos and see how he played as a scrummie.   Glad to see he is still involved in rugby development in Argentina.   Hope he is successful in that.

Cruz, I'll hold thumbs for your eventual inclusion in Currie Cup rugby. As Mike has pointed out, you have a very good rugby brain, and from what you have discribed regarding your physical attributes, you have what it takes to make it. Good luck on that front.

Ok, I am done being nice to you, you are the enemy (An opposition supporter) after all. LOL

Mike

Agreed 100%. Porta was a fantastic player.

Pichot is such a special player. From a technical & tactical point of view, he ticked all the boxes: passing, box-kicking, tactical kicking, running, tackling... he was a general on the pitch. And quite an inspirational figure too. His pre-game speeches still send shivers down my spine.

I remember him sitting at our training sessions (does that a lot, regardless of the club). It was early 2009. He looked absolutely battered. We asked him what was wrong with him... he said: "I'm working a bit on this proyect I have". That proyect turned out to be Argentina's admission into the 3N.

Guys like Pichot set the bar for the rest of us. He ignites us upon working as hard as we possibly can. Now Pichot is trying to move Pampas XV to the Currie Cup, and possibly to put together an Argie franchise for Super Rugby. Relentless little man eh? ;)