I have changed my mind....

..on Rassie, PSDT, Elton Jantjies, and a few others.

And before any of the usual fanboys jump in and start beating your chests claiming: "See, I have been telling you all the time but you wouldn't listen....". None of the arguments on this board has done anything to change my mind. No one, especially the blind fanboys came up with any arguments that  could convince me. It was when I saw this video. And the guy who made the video is not even an ex-player or something  similar. He is a gamer, playing rugby computer games.

Sit back and enjoy. Some may even have seen the video before. I saw it the first time this weekend. I have seen his video on the final, though.

Apology? You’ve got to be taking the piss. 

Why am I not surprised that our loudmouth used car salesman would be the first to start beating his chest? Give me one quote of you saying anything that was even close to the stuff mentioned in this video. You do not have the insight to analyse the situation like this guy has done. You may have decided that Rassie was the guy but you had no clue why you believed that. I should actually have been pissed of at your arrogance in thinking that you said anything that could convince me.

Back to the used car stand with you. 

This remark alone proves that you have no idea what you are talking about “ Jantjies has skills and can get a backline running. Just not good on wet pitches. “ Nowhere in this video is there any talk about him being. Maybe you should have watched the video first.

PS. The one that I really owe an apology is Siya Kolisi. I don’t know many times I thought that he was an arsehole who didn’t deserve to even be in the squad, let alone captain the side. 

I saw something in Rassie years ago when  he was Director of Rugby of the Stormers and Coetzee was the coach,   Effectively there was a partnership in evidence in 2009 and 2010, but in 2011 something went wrong between the two and the Stormers started to go backwards in performances faster and faster, 

The fact is that Erasmus became Director of Rugby at SARU in 2012 - but even though he was in charge of Meyer as Head Coach there obviously was zero co-operation between the two of them for the  four years Meyer was Head Coach,   That was not the first time that Erasmus had difficulties to work with other coaches.   The first obvious sign that there was a different approach between Erasmus and other coaches were in 2007 when he left the White training squad a month before the start of the WC.   It also happened in 2016 when after the appointment of Coetzee he said publicly that the co-operation between Coetzee and him will be of value to the team.  Coetzee said no and Erasmus - realizing that disaster was inevitable resigned - bit left a gap in his contract with Munster that would allow him to come back to serve the Springboks when called upon to do so. 

So what is the difference between the other coaches I mentioned and Erasmus?   I think that Erasmus studies the game in detail and built up a massive data base on the game itself - from that data base he study the abilities of the players in the opposing teams and how they be neutralized or their weaknesses exploited, 

He also studied the abilities of players available in SA and how he can develop game that is built on natural abilities of players,  Jones - a person with a similar academic approach to rugby came with him from Munster.   They base the game plan on the ability and talent of team members to implement it, and his coaching approach is also aimed at finetuning the inherent skills and abilities to produce best results .

I do think that the difficulty Erasmus had with the other coaches is basically a much more academic approach to the game and at the same time to use the findings practically in games.

I personally have rated Erasmus as the best SA Coach since 1992 and still am of the same opinion.     

Ag no, Ceradyne. Now you're sounding like Dumb Fuck Dave and that used car salesman. 

Jantjies? Really? Have you watched him pretend rugby at test level? That's an acceptable standard of play to you? Really?

Kolisi? Worthy of his position in the team ... worthy to be captain?

Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahaaa!!

Have you lost your mind?

Comrade ... get a grip man.

Rassie has produced nothing of note. He came in and all we saw was much of the same. Losses to the better rugby nations and the occasional victory over run of the mill sides. Then he lucked his way through to the final and ended up winning against the better team.

Now suddenly he's a rugby god? Is that all it takes to rise to god status?

Let him retain the no.1 ranking for the next several years ... let him dominate the world as we've seen the All Blacks do.

Till then he's no better than any other average club coach.

He's proved nothing.

For me, give this guy some funding and let him add some production quality to his videos. 

I've been watching his channel for a year or so now and there isn't a more informative rugby show anywhere on TV.

Agree or disagree with his assessments, he does a fantastic analysis and is on point with his humour .

Much respect to the lad :)

Posted by: Plum (5828 posts)

May 26, 2020, 08:51

For me, give this guy some funding and let him add some production quality to his videos. 

I've been watching his channel for a year or so now and there isn't a more informative rugby show anywhere on TV.

Agree or disagree with his assessments, he does a fantastic analysis and is on point with his humour.

Much respect to the lad :)

I agree. 

What we have to remember is that he does not have a dog in this fight. He has no favourites and no pet hates. All he sees is two teams playing a game and he is trying to figure out what they do, how they do it and why they do it. I have never seen anything to suggest that he has any favourites or any pet hates. There is no way of knowing who he supports. 

He is not a forummer (if there is such a word) who is starting thread upon thread to explain why his blue eyed boy is as brilliant as he always says and has been saying since Jan van Riebeeck. Or that he is as kak as he been saying for the same time. He has no reason to rubbish others. He invites them to share their thoughts. In the absolutely unlikely event of him ever posting on this forum, he will probably be cast as an ignorant idiot who knows fokol about rugby within two or three posts. 

I can almost see ou Maaikie trying to rubbish him because he ignores the ESPN stats. And Frans Malherbe’s dad and Meyer Bosman’s mother and the receptionist at SARU. 

This guy has explained his arguments without giving any team’s or player’s stats. I cannot, of the top of my head, remember him ever using player stats in any of his videos that I have seen. 

Beeno will be kissing his feet. Not because of the way in which he explains what exactly he has seen in Rassie and PSDT, but merely for the fact that he has said something positive about them.  

There are only about three or four people on here who argue vaguely in the same way as this chap. All of them are regularly rubbished. The comical part is the the counter arguments to their arguments are overwhelmingly comical at best. 

One of them posts very seldomly but he knows what he is talking about and I know why he can talk with authority because I know who he is, what he does and what he has achieved. The minute he posts something he is ridiculed. Not because of what he is saying but because of who he is, or who they think he is. 

Haha Cera...

"There is no way of knowing who he supports."

From what I can gather, he's a Scarlets fan. 

He eludes to it in some of his videos.

Squidge was on Jim Hamilton's podcast on Facebook a day or two before he released this video. That's worth a watch as well.

Herschel Jantjies is his blue eyed boy and SCARLETS LEGEND!

" SCARLETS LEGEND!"

@xavi and Plum. Spot on about Scarlets and Jantjies. Point taken. I just remembered thinking, ahhhh at least we now know he’s a Scarlets fan. I forgot about that. It doesn’t take anything away from his objectivity though. 

BTW. I meant to make mention of this. He says that Rassie had two and a half game plans. I figured out the “half” game plan. Anybody else noticed?

Go on...

I thought Jantjies with an attacking formation was the 1/2 but that's likely not correct.

Remember that he said that Rassie’s game is about the flyhalf. Pollard at 10 was plan A. Jantjies at 10 with Pollard moving to 12 was plan B. Willie slotting in at 10, from time to time during in both A and B was the half plan. 

I may be wrong but that is the only explanation I could find, having watched it twice, of what the half plan could be. 

As I said. 

Ceradyne 

I was the one who referred to the comments of Squidge  on the actual final for people to watch and listen to.   The comments on this video is more or less the same although it covers a wider field.    

Dave

There is something that happened more frequently in the major matches and that was to use De Allende as first receiver  with Pollard on his outside,  If Le Roux came in as first receiver he would kick the ball - if De Allende would receive it first he would carry it,  

I do not think Jantjies is really involved in the two and a half game plans.   What tests did Jantjies actually play in last year:-  

RC                     -         Australia

WC Warm-up    -         Argentina

WC                    -         Namibia

                                     Canada

Jantjies was in the team as a dirt tracker and only used in one significant game - namely the RC test against Australia.   For the rest he was too rarely used to be part of any specific game plan.  

D uplicate

He may not have a dog in the fight but anyone who rates Elton and Quota Kolisi as top internationals is an idiot. 

Rassie has a lot to do before I'll rate him as more than just an administrator.

“ Posted by: clevermike (41324 posts)

Ceradyne 

I was the one who referred to the comments of Squidge  on the actual final for people to watch and listen to. ”

..... and

“ No one, especially the blind fanboys came up with any arguments that  could convince me.”

As I said in the OP. 

“ Posted by: Ceradyne (9037 posts)

And before any of the usual fanboys jump in and start beating your chests claiming: "See, I have been telling you all the time but you wouldn't listen....".

.....and

“ No one, especially the blind fanboys came up with any arguments that  could convince me.”

Guess who was one of the culprits, that I had in mind, when I said that. What I meant was that no breathless worshipping BS did anything to convince me. This, IMO, excellent analysis convinced me. 

This is conclusion. Everyone had their favourite idols and everyone had their pet hates, myself included. Some more or less argued that we won because of Rassie and despite choosing (fill in your pet hates in here) and because he chose (fill in your idols here). 

This guy said that they won because Rassie had the right formula and he chose the right personnel for the job, from the coaching team right down to each and every player. He carefully selected each player because each of them had a special roll to play. Even “Useless” Jantjies, “Fat” Fransie, “Lomp”, “Quota” Kolisi, “Duh” Allende, the whole lot of them. 

If you were so on par, in agreement and in touch with this guy’s observations, right from the start, how come you still rubbish, among others, Frans Steyn and Jantjies’ présence in the squad?

@Mike. 

“ Jantjies was in the team as a dirt tracker and only used in one significant game - namely the RC test against Australia.   For the rest he was too rarely used to be part of any specific game plan.   “

Since you are such a massive rugby expert and so impressively informed around the game, coaching the game and evaluation of players and game play. Then explain how, why and when, Jantjies was used even on the rare occasion that he was used “For the rest....).

Also explain this. Why would Rassie go to a an important event like the Rugby World Cup, dragging along useless fifth wheels like Jantjies and Frans Steyn? 

Look, I have by implication, conceded right from the start that I had my reservations about certain players in the squad. I also conceded that I had my reservations about Rassie. Even after winning the bloody thing. 

Well as Moz will confirm I was the first by far to recognize the great ability of Rassie as I was touting him when Rassie was coaching and captaining Free State. You can't get earlier that that. 

Oaks you really do need to pay close attention to what Beeno says.  I find myself so ahead of the oaks it gets lonely at times!

Rassie developed a power pack that could dominate for 80 minutes. Great defence, a flyhalf who was great at managing the game and a backline with A good degree of flair. Hard in your face rugby. Warriors all. 

All this of course is traditional Bok rugby. 

Rassie is a guy who pays huge attention to detail. Remember him giving a talk at Newlands. Every Stormers player had a laptop. Every week theY had to do certain things and work on aspects of their game. Every aspect was planned. Cobus Visage said Rassie was the sharpest rugby brain he had ever encountered. No surprise. 

Rassie won the RWC without even having the liberty to pick his best side. But he made it work. Every player played better with him as coach. 

So well done Rassie and the Boks. Well done also to the astute Beeno who spotted the talent, understood what Rassie was doing and got it right to an extraordinary degree. 

As for the frot wee cc he was left very red faced when the Boks became the world champions and cc became the GOAT  champion of the world. Bwhahahahaha. 

As for Sharktwit can't recall when the hatter started being a fan of Rassie but was it after the Boks won the RWC? 

“ Posted by: Beeno1 (32168 posts)

Well as Moz will confirm I was the first by far to recognize the great ability of Rassie as I was touting him when Rassie was coaching and captaining Free State. You can't get earlier that that. ”

When did you raise the arguments that were raised in this video? That is my point. You were, like all of us jumping on some players and praising others with all kinds of theories about who deserved to be in the squad, who should not have been, who were lucky to be there, etc. If anybody asked you, before the tournament, “Why Rassie?”, it would have been the same BS as usual. “He is a rugby genius. He has a great rugby brain. He won the CC, once. He turned around the WP/Stormers to achieve.... what exactly?“.

I am asking you the same question as I asked Mike. If you were so certain that Rassie was so brilliant, then why did you question his squad choices? Why did you not know then that he made the right choices and that he chose the right player for every roll?

@Bluebok. I grant you that you, and Mike for that matter, mentioned Squidge and IIRC, I started looking at his stuff after one of your posts. 

What I am saying, though, is that none of all the hundreds (thousands) of arguments and discourses on this forum convinced me about Rassie or any of the players who I criticised. This video, however, laid it bare for me. 

Dave

Jantjies was used off  the bench in some games in  2018 - never once in  2019.   So I still think that there is no chance that in the game plans Erasmus really finalized any involvement with a dirt tracker would be in the game plan.

As to Le Roux being first receiver - sorry you are wrong - when  Le Roux came on as first receiver he makes strategic kicks - when he comes into the backline wider out he takes part in attacking ,moves.  Just have a look at what happened just before the scoring of the Mapimpi try and see the example of what mostly happened when  L e Roux was first receiver,             

Windpomp sorry oak if you are too dumb to know why so very obviously Rassie is a great coach you cant be helped. Bit like asking why Barry Richards was a great batsmen - does one have to spell out every detail!    Nevertheless, since Rassie"s Free State years i have said quite a bit about why Rassie is so good.

All you are trying to do is minimise the insights of those who recognized the obvious truth to minimise you own slow reaction to what was obvious. Bwahahahahahahahaha

Your new Hero talks too fast. Always be careful of such people as they can slip in a whole load of crud without most noticing.   

His take on Kolisi was funny but to be fair he made some good points so credit too him. Can't say though that there much that was not obvious. EG we all knew or should have known that Rassie was laying the groundwork and then fine tuning. further it was obvious that you cant have only a plan and nothing more etc etc.

Most know stats are suggestive but not the whole story so no great kudos there.

One would have to go through the tape word by fast word to assess the real merit. One fears ou Windpomp is really star stuck with the fellow although had he had been paying attention he would be saying  not too much here. The guy was getting it right and was accurately for the most part telling how things were done which again was pretty obvious.

Man for how long have there been pods on both sides of the scrum. For how long have defenders used the touchline as part of their defence strategy!!!  Faf has had many option to pass to pass to. we all knew all that stuff.

Better stop lest ou Windpomp has a seizure!

Pakster you are a genius for recommending the oak to be sure in awe etc.

While I was busy compiling the opening post on this thread I was thinking to myself who would be the first to claim the “I cannot told you so, prise”. 

I got it wrong. I was convinced it would be ou Maaikie. Unfortunately he was narrowly beaten by the used car salesman. Beeno surprised me a bit by leaving for quite some time before claiming his share of the limelight. 

The one question that remains unanswered is the one that could prove beyond any doubt that they were knowledgeable enough to know exactly why Rassie was the man for the job. If they were so deeply convinced that Rassie was perfect, why did they question the inclusion of Jantjies, Steyn, Kolisi, Mostert, etc. After watching the video, do you still doubt the inclusion of these guys. Do you also still believe that Kolisi should not have been in the squad, let alone, getting the nod as captain? 

Ou Maaikie’s explanation, even after watching the video, of Jantjies’ role in the squad, is proof enough that he had no idea why Rassie was da man. 

Beeno was right in saying that Rassie had a good rugby brain, but he didn’t what made his such a good rugby brain. None of his arguments addressed that, other than his idol like admiration of the man. 

I can remember having an argument about Rassie many moons ago, after another of Beeno’s tirades over “all of Rassie’s achievements”, and that was before he went to Munster. His major argument was winning the CC with Freestate at Loftus. My argument was that Rassie had the right game plan for that particular game. What did he do? He loaded his bench with, wait for it......... forwards, doing what? Waiting till just after half time and then replacing his entire front row with an almost identical front two. Now where have we seen that? Oh yes, this video. Beeno, of course wouldn’t hear anything about the fact that after all of that, Rassie’s side was actually handed the win on a silver platter. How? Between two of the best Blue Bulls backs, non other than Fourie du Preez and Johan Roets, they fumbled a high ball, in injury time, by running into each other, only for Meyer Bosman to pick up the ball and score under the posts. What did Rassie achieve at in Cape Town. The Cape guys will start hyperventilating, telling us of all the great running rugby and brilliant defence that he introduced but we are still waiting to hear what he has achieved. 

That was why I never believed in Rassie, even when he won the RWC. That is why this video, to me, was such and eye opener. Not a single argument by anyone on this board, least of all three of the bright sparks who claimed to be the experts on Rassie that they want us to believe. 

I rest my case. 

1. Rassie did well as soon as he started coaching the Cheatas. First 2 seasons as a coach he was in the final of Currie Cup rugby.

2. Went to WP, Stormers. Almost instantly Rassies team has an excellent attack and defence. Wins lots of games in New Zealand

Rassie was head coach and Coetzee assistant coach. Rassie took pressure from the WP management team, possibly racism against Rassie (Nick Mallett had just left WP under similar clouds). Rassie becomes Director of Rugby. WP continues to do well, but a bit less effective on the attack.

3. Rassie leaves WP. The attack of the Stormers becomes pathetic. The defence remains good, but each season the team gets a bit worse. Strength of team is defence. Jaques Neibaber still defence coach. Some long time WP players leave and the team starts to unravel.
Clearly Alister Coetzee was useless and just riding the Rassie gravey train.

4. Rassie Director Of Springboks. Does backroom stuff and juniors, not very noticeable. Rassie leaves to Munster. 

5. Munster do well from the very first season, and again in second season. Won Pro14 in the first season

6. Alister Coetzee is now Bok coach, and it is clear how useless he is. Rassie returns as director of rugby. 

7. Alister Coetzee throws his toys out of the cot and claims he is a better coach than Rassie. (Like back at Stormer's days). 

8. Rassie becomes coach. First-year was hit or miss.
When they were good they were great, when they were bad they at least had a solid defence.

9. Rassie second season. His B team thrashed Australia. The defence had improved more, and attack was much better. Combinations and game plan very settled.

10. Rassie wins the World Cup, coach of the year, team of the year, player of the year. etc, etc

No use repeating the historical facts. Facts that all of us know in any case. Let alone  inflating it with adjectives. 

I have often acknowledged Rassie’s ability to analyse an upcoming situation and devising a plan for that particular situation. I was not convinced of his abilities and may I repeat it once again because you are so busy using all your used car salesman tricks to sell the pre-2019RWC Rassie to me, that you keep on missing my entire point. 

Nobody on this board raised the points that was made in this video. They were all broad assertions by armchair “experts”. If everyone  was only 10% as knowledgable  as they thought they were, we would at least have seen a few of the points that this guy has made in the video. 

I’ll say again. If you were so convinced about Rassie’s coaching acumen, then why did everybody have any doubts about any of the players that were included in the squad, including the choice of the captain. There were a continuous stream of bitching and arguing about Jantjies, Frans Steyn, Mostert, Kolisi, Malherbe, Lood, PSDT, etc. This video pointed out that each and every player had a specific and often unique role. 

If, specifically you, Beeno and Mike, who are now claiming accolades had as much acumen as you claim to have, none of you would have questioned the inclusion of any of those. 

Hall Of Fame

9045 posts

I’ll say again. If you were so convinced about Rassie’s coaching acumen, then why did everybody have any doubts about any of the players that were included in the squad, including the choice of the captain. There were a continuous stream of bitching and arguing about Jantjies, Frans Steyn, Mostert, Kolisi, Malherbe, Lood, PSDT, etc. This video pointed out that each and every player had a specific and often unique role. 

--------------                --------------               --------------               --------------

I don't remember saying they should not be in the squad- especially in more recent years. Most of those players are second or first choice. 

Jantjies: 3 SuperRugby finals in a row. He has improved over time, and I had noticed that the backline ran better on the attack with Jantjies and 10 and Pollard was shifted to 12. Jantjies gives lots of options with his passing and running lines. 

Frans Steyn- Would have been my preferred choice to start the world cup games, but Delande was in good form. Even if he has lost some pace, he is still an effective allround player on defence and attack. Esterhuizen is perhaps the third best. 

Mostert-  Good player, but with the depth that SA have it is not an easy selection. He is small but has a high work rate and mobility. Having Steph at 7 and Mostert at 5, is a bit like having Matfield at lock with Danie Rossouw at blindside flank.

Kolisi- A small number 8 playing at 6. Does very little fetching, but is strong in other areas of the game. Better as a linking number 8 than a fetcher. Arguably lucky to be in the starting team, but the next best option was Francios Louw. I would have preferred Flouw to start as he reaches more breakdowns. 

Malherbe- I have been critical of this player in the past. such as bellyflop scrums. However, he seems to take a while to get back into form after an injury. Played well at World Cup, like the form he had when he first started for the Boks. 

Lood-  Different player to Mostert, but is good quality. Can do some stupid stuff sometimes, so Mosert maybe a safer bet. Bigger and stronger than Mostert, but less finesse. 

PSDT- I criticised his first games at 7 under Meyer at the world cup. He played some games at lock and got better after a season or 2.  Then moved to back to 7. Ben Youngs exposed his defence, and the Boks looked slow around the base of the ruck under Alister Coetzee.

Rassie worked on him and transformed him into a specialist 7 in skill and conditioning . He got better and better, now the Boks can have him on the field and 2 locks to accommodate excess lock stock. 

Actually I agree with Turncoat....Erasmus needed to kick on and establish a winning record against the ABs. Until he does that it all remains unclear. Losing to the ABs and beating Wales and the Poms at a WC is not establishing yourself as number 1. 

I think we beat England and Wales through defence and set pieces. That created so much  opportunity even our very average offense had to score a few tries. And through the almost flawless kicking of Pollard...miss one of those last few kicks against Wales and we likely would have lost.

There were some other tactical bits...like the 3 man attacking and defensive pods....the rush onto Ford....Allende rushing onto  Biggar.

All pretty much traditional Bok rugby. The only mystery is why fans like Mike, Biltongbek and others were so sure we had to play a new game vs just execute our own game well. If HM and Coetzee failed it was because they bought that nonsense.

@Ceradunce, Rassie has had success where ever he has gone, almost instantly. His CV that I listed proves this. 

Since his disco light days onto the stadium, surprise bench choices - he is clearly a good thinker of the game. 

@SB. Hindsight is 20/20 vision. When and where have you said that prior to me starting this thread?

This is you, just now. 

“ Frans Steyn- Would have been my preferred choice to start the world cup games, but Delande was in good form. Even if he has lost some pace, he is still an effective allround player on defence and attack. Esterhuizen is perhaps the third best. “

This was you in Nov 2017:

“ Posted by: sharkbok (11703 posts)

Fat Fransie, like wine matures with age- but will eventually get sour. 

Fat Fermented Fransie”

Oops. 

“ Posted by: sharkbok (11704 posts)

@Ceradunce, Rassie has had success where ever he has gone, almost instantly. His CV that I listed proves this. ”

A CV should list all of one’s accomplishments. 

His CV pre RWC 2019 reflects a CC victory in 2004, (or was it 2005? whatever) and the Pro 14 years later. The rest are opinions and those don’t count on any CV.