I have changed my mind....

@SB on this thread:

“  I don't remember saying they should not be in the squad- especially in more recent years. Most of those players are second or first choice. “

“ Jantjies: 3 SuperRugby finals in a row. He has improved over time, and I had noticed that the backline ran better on the attack with Jantjies and 10 and Pollard was shifted to 12. Jantjies gives lots of options with his passing and running lines. “

SB in Jan 2018:

“ Posted by: sharkbok (11704 posts)

Willemse and Jantjies may be similar players. They both thrive in space. Jantjies, unfortunately, is not test standard because he does not have time and space at this level.

Willemse is, however, more physical, and I doubt he would have made so many basic errors like fumbling basic high ball catches.  “

That makes Jantjies quite a crappy flyhalf and puts him in third spot behind Pollard and Willemse.....in your opinion of course. 

Ou Vrottie, I suggest you give up on this one. 

You clearly lost the argument the minute when you decided to ignore my warning, in the opening post, by not only claiming to have had the ability to convince me about Rassie’s specific expertise and intricate planning concerning the detailed role of every player in the squad. No, you even, audaciously and arrogantly demanded that I owe you an apology. 

What makes your demand even more hilarious is the fact that you were thereby implicitly asserting that you have indeed already convinced me about Rassie’s abilities, in the same way that Squidge has set it out when he compiled this particular piece of video evidence, and that I have just, perhaps due to my staunch Afrikaner upbringing, my pride for my mother tongue, the religious teachings of my church and my in unwavering support for the evil Apartheid government, not yet recognised it. 

What next? Are you going to claim to have been guiding Squidge and provided him with the material to compile the video?

Oh wait. Better watch out, I see your boss coming. He seems to be pissed off. He’s carrying a bucket and some rags. Have you forgotten to start washing the used cars again? No way you gonna be selling any if they’re dirty and covered in bird shit. 

"Also explain this. Why would Rassie go to a an important event like the Rugby World Cup, dragging along useless fifth wheels like Jantjies and Frans Steyn?"

Really? You need an explanation?

Ok!! Let me have a crack at it.

Let me see ... um ... Rassie committed himself to transformation ... in other words ... favouring the black man over the more talented white players ... for the sake of keeping his job and appeasing his racist masters.

I’m surprised you don’t know this. I guess you’ve lost touch living abroad and all.

Any way ... his selection choices were largely based on this. Merit had no choice but to take a backseat ... and so the search began for native representation. Their names would be first on the list ... and whatever positions they didn’t take up would be filled in by the whites later.   

He tried to reach the 50% target he’d committed himself to, but that was a bridge too far ... as he had set himself certain standards and refused to go below the absolute chump level that most natives represent.

Any player worse than the useless Elton Jantjies and Kolisi would not be considered.

This limited him to but a hand full and so in his quest to make up the numbers, he was forced to bring some borderline chump selections in ... like Am, Bongi and Gelant.

It didn’t matter that there were a lot better white options available ... he needed to make up the numbers ... and had no choice but to go with these useless quotas.   

Elton Jantjies was among those called up. Why you may ask ... well it certainly wasn’t for anything rugby related. He spent the better part of the competition visiting the sights in Japan. My guess, and I’m taking a shot in the dark here, is that maybe ... the colour of his skin had something to do with it. What do you think? Could that be it? I don’t know. It’s a puzzle to me.

I mean the former “best” 10 in the land suddenly finds himself struggling to make the bench. Why  ... he’s a top international rugby player ... right?  

 I can only chalk it down to a fully paid up holiday for “services” rendered.

Look at Quota Kolisi. He was made a temporary capt until those better suited for the leadership returned from injury. Rassie thought he’d win some brownie points with this absurd gesture ... but in his naivety found himself forced into a corner. He had no option but to keep this useless quota listed as Goats kapitan.

He now had to make space for this chump in every match. To his credit, he did try to place the quota elsewhere but it seems he was just as useless there. He even sent him on a crash course to learn how to play on the openside. .

Hilarious stuff I must say.

Talk about having your back to the wall.

The Goats are being led by a man who has no clue how to do his job. Not as an openside flank ... nor as a captain.

If that’s not bad enough ... he also thought it wise to include a few elderly players into the mix. Players that could in no way contribute to the team on the same level as those younger, hungrier, stronger, quicker and with far more talent.

In comes a chump that could never cement his spot as a Goat when he was 10 years younger. Schalk Brits. Out goes the best hooker in the country for this useless neverbeen.  

Frans Louw is another elderly player included. For what purpose I have no idea. Rumour has it that Rassie wanted a few close friends to go along with him to Japan. He promised them a spot in the squad at a braai over a beer.  

Another mate of his that goes back to his days at the Free State ... Duane Vermeulen is also invited to come along. The poor man can only manage 20 minutes on the field before vanishing ... and this only every other game. Meanwhile  the best 8 in the country sits at home.

Turns out that the old adage of “it’s not what you know, but rather who you know” has merit.

Once upon a time, there was a young talent making a name for himself. He had it all and looked as if he’d go on to become one of the greatest players ever to don the Bok’s jersey. Sadly arrogance, regular brain farts, narcissistic tendencies and showboating would be his end. He too was included in the mix. The hyped up Frans Steyn lost his mojo 10 years ago. What a massive disappointment he turned out to be.

As to your question ... I’m afraid there is no logical thinking that I can find behind most of Rassie’s selections. He somehow came away the winner in last year’s WC ... and now enjoys god status among the ignorant.

Sorry ... I did try to make sense of it all ... but couldn’t.

But they won. 

Against all odds. Against coaches who did not have to consider a fraction of one percent of what he had to bear in mind. 

Well ... let's see how long this genius can keep his team at the top of world rugby.

Let's see if this genius can dominate the world like the All Blacks have the last decade.

That is the unknown at this stage. We'll have to wait and see, won't we?

Too many oaks like rooitwit etc were all a twitter about Rassie and the roof lights bit of fun. Rooitwit can about never see the wood ftom the trees. The buffoon thought Trump wanted to inject people with some sort of deadly disinfectant. How daft is that!!

Wee cc is very bitter about the Boks triumph. Sad to see but he was so hoping Rassie and the Boks would crash. 

But we need to see clearly what ou Windpomper is up to.

Basically the Windpomp was excruciatingly embarrassed that he got it all wrong. 

Windpomper was watching Rassie coaching since Rassie's Free State days and knows his outstanding record.

But now he insists those recognizing Rassie great ability as a coach didn't explain it to him so he can't be blamed for getting it wrong and nobody can take credit for getting it right. 

Windpomper say he has changed his mind because his new hero explained to him why Rassie is so good. Ou Windpomp admits he didn't have a clue dispite having seen Rassie coached teams at wotk!

Because he couldn't understand why Rassie was good nobody else could they were just guessing. 

Now I and others have made probably 1000s of post saying why Rassie is good. As well as Rassue' s coaching record, the opinions of others and all these numerous posts collectively detailing why Rassie is good ou Windpomp insists on blaming others for his monumental error of judgement.

As for team selection I mentioned at the time we would never know what team Rassie would have picked had there been no quota impositions. The wonderful achievement is that Rassie made it all work. All the Boks returned home heads held high. 

The Rassie bashers were crushed. 

Even after Rassie being named coach of the year, Boks team of the year, and Du Toit player of the year ou Windpomp didn't change his mind. The oak needed an out and now is blaming Rassie supporters for not explaining suffienctly why Rassie was good. 

You cant make up this nonsense!

Now we have poor wee cc hoping that the Boks will crash so that Rassie somehow will be all to blame. I suspect others feel the same but are to embarrassed to say so. 

I congratulate Windpomper for a hilarious thread. 

Although Sharktwit obviously was following my lead he has to get some credit for doing so but even a stuck clock gets it right two times a day!! 

Wee cc hopes as many players as possible leave SA so as to make Niebers Jon as hard as possible. 

If Nieaber fails Rassie fails. Wee cc imagines Rassie is still effectively the coach although that is clearly not so. Rassie will have influence for sure but not having him fully on the job is NOT the same really. 

Hoping Nieaber and the Boks continue to do well. 

Ok, Beeno. Let’s look at what it is that you posted that was so amazingly informative.

First paragraph:

“ Too many oaks like rooitwit etc were all a twitter about Rassie and the roof lights bit of fun. Rooitwit can about never see the wood ftom the trees. The buffoon thought Trump wanted to inject people with some sort of deadly disinfectant. How daft is that!!  “

Rassie, roof lights, Rooies, Trump? Yeah. Makes perfect sense.

Next paragraph:

“ Wee cc is very bitter about the Boks triumph. Sad to see but he was so hoping Rassie and the Boks would crash.  “

More irrelevant and nonsensical BS. 

“  But we need to see clearly what ou Windpomper is up to.

Basically the Windpomp was excruciatingly embarrassed that he got it all wrong. “

Embarrassed? If you say so, although, if I really was embarrassed, I would have kept my mouth shut and not say a word. Think about it. 

“  Windpomper was watching Rassie coaching since Rassie's Free State days and knows his outstanding record.“

Yeah I know. He won the CC and then pissed off to a bigger union for a bigger cheque where he achieved........ bugger all. 

“ But now he insists those recognizing Rassie great ability as a coach didn't explain it to him so he can't be blamed for getting it wrong and nobody can take credit for getting it right  “

You still do not understand why you had blind faith in him. You didn’t know. Otherwise you would have explained it. 

“  Windpomper say he has changed his mind because his new hero explained to him why Rassie is so good. Ou Windpomp admits he didn't have a clue dispite having seen Rassie coached teams at wotk!“

Yeah I did see Rassie coached teams work before he found a reason to run away. I saw them winning nothing.

“ Because he couldn't understand why Rassie was good nobody else could they were just guessing.  “ 

Damn right I couldn’t because his record certainly reflected nothing.

“ Now I and others have made probably 1000s of post saying why Rassie is good. As well as Rassue' s coaching record, the opinions of others and all these numerous posts collectively detailing why Rassie is good ou Windpomp insists on blaming others for his monumental error of judgement.  “

Thousands of posts mean nothing. You could add another two zeros, it would still meaning nothing because that is what it said. Nothing.

“  As for team selection I mentioned at the time we would never know what team Rassie would have picked had there been no quota impositions. The wonderful achievement is that Rassie made it all work. All the Boks returned home heads held high. “

You’re right. You wouldn’t know. Even after winning the RWC, you still couldn’t explain the presence of all the usual suspects in the squad. 

“  Even after Rassie being named coach of the year, Boks team of the year, and Du Toit player of the year ou Windpomp didn't change his mind. The oak needed an out and now is blaming Rassie supporters for not explaining suffienctly why Rassie was good. “

You’re right. I couldn’t figure out how he managed to pull it off and none of the arguments on this forum, least of all your brown nosing of him brought me any closer to understanding. 

As for the rest of your ramblings about CC and Shark, feel free to take it up with them.  

There. Got it?

I see BeanDip is ready with his excuse.

Haaaahahahahaaa!!

"It's not Rassie's fault, man ... it's that damn physio therapist's fault."

Question is ... how far will the Goats fall within a rugby year?

Even their most devoted fans aren't too confident about retaining their current ranking.

They come aboard here with all kinds of boastful remarks ... "coach of the year ... team of the year ... player of the year ... blah, blah, blah" ... till you bring up their ranking and whether they'll still be top dog this time next year. Then suddenly the tone changes.

You speak of whether they see th eir team dominating the rugby world and suddenly all goes quiet.

What does that tell you?

It tells me that deep down inside, they all know that their WC victory was an absolute fluke. A freak of nature .. and that they're expecting their team of quotas to plummet down the table to where they belong ... 7th.

Talk about a wake up call waiting. 

Yeah yeah, SharkShit ... heard it all before.

Just add your list of excuses to BeanDip's.

You'll need them for when your team of quotas crash and burn.

We both know that that's inevitable.

See what I mean .. !!!?

Dave

Agree with you about that.

Wee cc yes it's inevitable that nobody stays at the top. We all know that. 

How about getting rid of all bitterness oak. 

My thoughts on Rassie:

1. I liked him as a player, but he was no Bok great in my book.




2. As coach? He started off as player coach at Vrystaat IIRC. I think he made an impact immediately and that was reflected in their CC success.




3. Same thing at WP and the Stormers. Immediate improvement but unfortunately he won no trophies. He took the team from nowhere and made the finals of SR and CC in 2010.




4. In 2011 Rassie was helping Snorre preparing the Boks for the 2011 RWC. I don't really know what his exact contributions were, but IMO there was a marked difference in the team's performance after the training camp. We played well against the Aussies, but a juvenile error in tactics lost us the game in the end.




5. As a WP  man, I was disappointed when he left WP and IMO, WP and the Stormers gradually got weaker after the 2010 peak. I know we won some trophies since, but that's because the opposition got weaker too and not because WP got better.




6. I never was much of an Alistair Coetzee fan, but I never was much against him either. I still think his track record was good enough to give him the Bok coaching job in 2016. He was actually the South African coach with the longest solid track record. Rassie was out of the lime light by that time and operated in the background, so he wasn't really an option.




7. Well, Coetzee was a bit unlucky IMO. He inherited a team with lots of players who retired and had to be replaced and the replacements weren't so obvious. I was in the crowd at Newlands when we lost against 14 Irishmen...his first match and the Bok'sfirst loss to Ireland on home soil...he never got back from that. Funny how his last match in South Africa was also at Newlands. The match that actually started our fight back against NZ...the match we lost by a single point, a few weeks after the 57 - 0 drubbing.




8. Rassie replaced Alistair and somehow things turned around immediately. Suddenly the fight was back. We started winning matches that we would have lost in the past. We came back from trailing far behind. He gave us hope again, but more importantly he gave the team hope and belief...a never give up attitude...HEART...and the RWC. 

Thanks Rassie.

“  Posted by: sharkbok (11708 posts)

Windpomp please ask if you need the game explained to you. There are a number people here who can explain things to you. 

Don't blame others for your not understanding the game or the posts of many who explained why Rassie was good. 

Under Rassie Free State won two of their 3 Currie Cup titles. 

They reach the Super Rugby final and got Crooked out of a win. The ref was coaching the Bulls said the very honorable Schalk Burger. He won over seas. 

He won the 4 nations. He won the RWC. 

Stop being a loser Windpomper and admit you were wrong and the fault lies with you. 

Bwhahahahaha ou Windpomper has disappeared into the pit he has dug for himself!! 

Beeno, if you were so clued up about Rassie why have you;

a. questioned his selections,

b. tagged along with the rest of us criticising Faf’s kicking, and

c. never recognised his two and a half game plans. 

The only ones who sort of recognised some game plan were those who had Jantjies in there because “he was better in wet conditions” and nothing else. The only ones who, as far as I can remember, saw anything else in Jantjies were Saffex and Plum. 

Your only reason for supporting Rassie was your blind faith in his abilities, which is also OK. 

I keep on telling you, no matter how hard you would want to convince me otherwise, you never came up with anything that would have convinced me about Rassie’s abilities. 

For me, and you may (rightfully) argue that is was because of my bias against the guy, it matter of believing that he was the real deal. As you can see from my earlier post, I now believe that he has the abilities but I also still have the same concern that I have always had. His Bona Fides. 

I want to make one comment and that is the issue of the All Blacks,   In all four years Meyer - a hero of Mozart - the Springbok played 8 tests against the AB's.  The results were 7 losses and 1 win.   In the case of Coetzee the Springboks played 4 games against the AB's and lost all four - two by record margins

In the case of Erasmus the Sprngboks played 4 tests against the AB's, in which -

*   a never achieved away win against the AB's in Wellington since a win in 2008 in Dunedin;

*  a never achieved previous draw in an away match  against the AB's; and 

*   two losses both rather narrow losses.

In the discussion of the final in the NZ TV program The Breakdown the AB experts present seemingly agree on the point that the way the Springboks played in the final, the AB's would have no chance in beating the Springboks.

Unlike under Meyer and Coetzee the Erasmus squad was very competitive against the AB's.  In the one game in 2018 they lost by 2 points and in the other because of an intercept try and a try scored because of poor defense by Mostert they won by 13 points.  That was a  vast improvement of what happened under Meyer and Coetzee,

I do believe the Springboks will obviously have to beat the AB's as many times as possible, but do not see that as a major problem like it used to be during the past decade and definitely agree with what the AB commentators said about the fact that they thought that the AB's would not have beaten the Springboks in the final.  They realize that the Springboks under Erasmus became more competitive than they used to be under especially Meyer and Coetzee - something that some members on site think will be an insurmountable problem - especially those again st Erasmus as coach.           .                 

And in a flash we're back flogging another dead horse.

Windpomper it's stunning to see you say I didn't give you reasons to rate Rassie so you have an excuse for getting it wrong. 

Take responsibility Windpomp. 

Next look through all my posts from the time Rassie starting coaching Free State and I am confident you will find reasons were. 

As you also accuse others of not explain to you why Rassie is not good look at those posts as well. 

Chech also what reasons you have, all wrong no doubt, as to why Rassie was not good.

Hahahahaha ou Windpomper in a pickle! 

“ Next look through all my posts from the time Rassie starting coaching Free State and I am confident you will find reasons were.   “

Nothing but repetitive BS. You’ve been having hard-ons very everything and everyone with any link to the WP, bar Coetzee, and that was only because Rassie was still lurking in the background. You hardly ever mentioned Rassie before his arrival in the Cape, accept when he was won the CC, and that was only because it was the Blue Bulls that he beat. 

Rassie isn't under any political pressure. He's all for transformation. Including the natives at test level is his passion. He has no qualms about bringing inexperienced black coaches in either.

He feels that they have no need to earn their stripes ... unlike the white coaches who spend years learning the trade. These natives are accustomed to handouts. Why change that?

Even his captain was fast tracked with a crash course on how to play the game ... which as expected, didn't take.

...and yet he still gets results??? Amazing! He's got a feel for balance it seems.

@Beeno

While revisiting the earlier posts n this thread, in an effort to try making sense of what the used car salesman was trying to say, I found these two pearls of wisdom:

“  Under Rassie Free State won two of their 3 Currie Cup titles. 

They [The Stormers] reach the Super Rugby final and got Crooked out of a win.”

The Cheetahs only won one CC under Rassie, in 2005, at Loftus.

The Stormers never reached a Super Rugby final under Rassie. The final that you are referring to was in 2010 against the Bulls in Soweto, IIRC, and Coetzee was the coach. That was when both Coetzee and Schalk Burger were not man enough to admit defeat. 

Yeah yeah. I know Rassie was the overal head honcho, but that is precisely my point about the Rassie fan girls. When things were good, it was due to Rassie. When they were crap, it was because of Coetzee. Happened back at the Stormers with Rassie and Coetzee. My guess is it may well happen again. 

“ Posted by: sharkbok (11730 posts)

"That was when both Coetzee and Schalk Burger were not man enough to admit defeat"

Oh, they admitted defeat, but were p!ssed off by the way the reff handled things...as were all WP fans...The Soweto match was always going to be a brifge too far, but the way Craig Joubert handled that match removed the slightest of changes WP might have hoped to have. Joubert, Dronker and Roos...3 horsemen of the fucked upalypse

Ja, ja, ek weet, ek verdien daai.

My favorite Schalla moment was when he very graphically told Willie Roos: "Jy moet jou fokken oë oopmaak!"...He got a couple of weeks suspension for that IIRC.

Goeie ou dae...