I'm sick of all this fucking bullshit!

Ed... before I start..... sorry for the language... drop me a mail if you want me to re-type this with some sensorship.

Before anyone starts saying that I'm jumping on any sort of bandwagon, let me make it clear that I have never been a Heyneke fan.

So let me now proceed to make my point....

Why since re-admission has SARU appointed such narrow minded coaches (besides Jake and Nick) who have fallen behind the pace of modern day coaching.

1. Though we won the 95 RWC, Kitch Christie was no Shakespeare as a coach. He was more the Hitler type.

2. Maarkgraaf... OMG

3. Carel MIA du Plessis. Classy player, shit coach

4. Harry Viljoen

5. Streuli

5. Pieter de Villiers

6. Heyneke Meyer

When we have the likes of Nick Mallet, Jake WHite and John Plumtree available?

Come on! How backward thinking are our administrators?

Lets get gurus into senior roles at SARU! Not bloody monkeys who only learnt about rugby after the 95 RWC!

He have the potential to continually beat the AB's, French, Poms and Aussies... but instead.... he fucking draw to Argentina who only got into the bloody Tri Nations out of sympathy!

...now we cant even beat them!

THis is atrocious!

Get rid of these yes men and get some thinkers...

Some analysers...

Some intellegence...

Not some Japie that says "we lacked experience" or "we didnt have passion" or some bullshit like that whenever we lose!

When we lose, we need analytical thinkers!

Not some asshole that coached the Bulls to glory with skop, skiet en donner tactics!

THAT WONT WORK AT INTERNATIONAL LEVEL HEYNEKE!

Thank GOD Pierre Spies is injured, otherwise we would have had him and Skop Face Steyn on the paddock at the same time... and 13 vs 15 just doesnt work!

Come on, Im so sick of listening to all of this bullshit of "we lost because we lacked intentisty"

Fuck man!

When the Kiwis lack intensity, it doesnt mean they lack brains!

It just means that they'll only win by 10 points as opposed to 30!

The Springbols think that when we don't play with intensity, it means that they must have left their fucking brains in their tog bags when they ran on to the field!

Science, technology, analytics..... things that the aforementioned coaches knew fuck all about when they were schooled! ...if in fact they were schooled.

In conclusion: Get rid of the stupid black rugby administrators who think that employing an Afrikaans coach will create an equilibrium in power!

Im not racist... im black! So before I am accused of being racist... think twice.

But what the fuck do black people know about being rugby administrators? ..................FRESCA.,..... NOTHING!!

Bring back Louis Luyt, Jake White, Nick Mallett... and introduce John Plumtree into the mix... Eddie JONES!!!!! ... the man knows a thing or two.

Why did Graham Henry go to Argentina when we should have snapped him up? 

Im sick of this! We have over 185 000 registered rugby players in SA...

He have coaching facilities second to none!

Our acadamies are renowned around the world!

We bleed raw talent at schools like Affies, Monnas, Paarl x 3 and Gray...

We have 120kg farm boys growing up in the WC! There are Eben Etsebeths' are being bred left right and center! And they are GOOOOD at playing rugby!

The CC is still the strongest domestic competition on the globe...

We have thinkers.... but they dont want to give their expertise, cos fuckers SARU will shut them up! So instead they become TV analysts or they coach elsewhere where SARU cant censor them.

Fuck, I am infuriated!

Am with you chip

Except for the bit on Jake, he was nothing special at all

I had great expectations of Meyer, but the fact that he has not coached at a high level for the past 5 years or so is very apparent. The guy is stuck in a Bulls time warp. Sadly he has selected poorly regarding this touring squad and his true test will be on his return home when we play Oz and NZ. If he continues to select so conservatively and continues to push such short sighted and predictable tactics then he and the Boks have no chance in hell.

He best shape up or ship out - Mallett is looking for a job, give it to the guy with brains 

Agreed chippo

Me along with many other passionate Bok fans agree with you.

Just wish some more ex players like Francios Pienaar, John Smit and Andre Vos got involved at an admin level.

Those are just 3 guys that come to mind who share our passion.

...dont laugh about Vossie... he had a great rugga brain and captained the shittest Bok side ever.

 I feel you straight talking Chippo even though you're talking about your own beloved Boks! 

Interesting language and very emotional post , but I suppose I have to give you the kudos for putting your thoughts out on your sleeve and as you can see all the guys are not disagreeing with you.

What made it so painful was the fact that we looked composed and cohesive and committed for good periods of the game. But as you know test match rugby is 80 minutes not 60. HM will learn another valuable lesson from this game and our boys will be better for the game also. There was also a noticeable increase in the speed and tempo of the game that I think our boys struggled with.

Dare I say it but we are playing the AB's on a covered dry ground this week and we will have absolutely no where to hide and I can only pray that we bring our A game or we will be given another lesson. Our bench is very weak and in games against the Wallabies and AB's that is where you want 'impact' and intensity and we certainly dont have that.

As for our coach I do wonder whether he does have his work cut out for him and he does have a group of players that just lack intelligence???????? Because you have to wonder what the "f@#k some of them were thinking in their play and decision making!!!!!!

Very emotional, but very shortsighted. Let me educate you while you calm yourself down. You all were critics of the supposedly backward Jake White and even Nick Mallett. Don't start acting like they are saviors and that only smart people will select them, because 99% of Bok fans were not among those supposedly smart people. Next. Meyer has already stated that he will build on the current game plan as he develops the team. As hard as it is for some doff Saffers to believe, any kind of technical game has GOT TO have a very strong foundation. That means we need our pack and loose trio sorted. Adding layers to an unfinished founsation will leave you were Viljoen was. Meyer is very smart about how he is approaching all of this, but Bok fans all of a sudden expect to conquer the world. We are the most vulnerable side in the top 6 easily, we should take nothing for granted and be far more realistic. Meyer will bring a balanced game in time as he develops the team. He is busy working through the players just as Jake once did and will find his combinations. And if the Boks play anything like the Bulls under Meyer they will be very powerful indeed. They have been the most well rounded South African side of the past few years. As for Plumtree? This man was clueless as heck, sure, he came in and did some good work in 2009 which turned things around for the Boks, but as a head coach? This man is sterility personified. Mitchell turned out just as I said he would, Coetzee is riding on the back of Nienaber's work. When all is said and done, your view of everything is very off centre.

@requie,

I wonder how the Bok game or HM's plan would have came together if all our injured and senior players were back in the fold. This I am sure would have had an impact on the composure and decision making being made on the field. For sure HM needs to build and I put my hand up that I am one of those that feel the anger and hurt from a below performing Bok team.

However, when HM says his plan is and I quote "to win every game" then I only ask what do you think our expectations will be. Be very careful HM what you say and then you cant live up to it? I suggest he gets PR lessons from Beentwit....bhwaaaaa....lol actually no dont do that!

But seriously we are South Africa we are the nation of the "Mighty Springboks" not the "Mighty blowflies".........HM shouldn't be having to re-build our national team, he shouldn't of had to of taken over a team that appears to be in turmoil from week to week!

Why wouldn't we expect to be on par with our greatest foe NZ? At this stage our greatest foe is battling Australia and ourselves WTF!!!

So there are a lot of emotions after all it was under a year ago that we were bleating that we should have been playing the AB's for the mantle of the RWC after we were cheated out of a semi-final.....so a lot has changed in 10 months obviously?

Chippo I understand your frustration and you make a number of good points. Our fundamental problem is merit is not the ruling criteria. The rot is at the top as we well know with our beloved WP who have lost both Mallet and Rassie as coaches and a string of players.

However I am not at all despondent as I think Meyer is improving the side and when the injured players come back and the youngsters are ready we will do very, very well.

We lost a close game against Oz which we could well have won. the abs only beat them by seven in OZ.

We beat theArgies at home more convincingly than the abs did.

Please keep a sense of perspective here. Rome was not built in a day. We had no coach for 4 years and so no development was done re the national side. Of course we will struggle for a time. Where would the abs or oz b enow after 4 years of oupdv. Fact is they would never in a million years have appointed a guy like him as head coach.   How in demand is ou pdv now as a coach, would he ever land a Brumbies type position. NO.

Chippo

Am with you about what you said - but for youtr take on Mallett.   That guy inherited a top team that was just starting to function properly and managed in 2 years time to break it into smithereeens.   Ask Teichmann what the players thought of Mallett and he would tell you a few things that would be har to believe.  A real talker - big mouth - but really no implementation skills and really no HR with he players.

Yes - we had the biggest load of crap coaches and shoot ourselves in the foot that way.   Instead of analyzing the issue and look at what we can due about the future of rugby in SA insofar as the national team is concerned - and look carefully at what players should be used as building blocks for the future - Meyer's first reaction was to start looking at the past - as if that was so glorious.   Other than a period around 2007 - 08 - when we really had a top team - the older players started to show wear and tear and by 2010 our record against the top teams deteriorated and the process of player renewal never took place.   The result was a team of old players trying to get into the 2011 WC.

Instead of realizing that most of the players were past it by 2011 and performance by them were generally below par - Meyer's first reaction was to try and get some of the failed players of the period subsequent to 2009 back into his team.   Lucky for us it did not work out - otherwise the losses would be by massive margins.  

Instead of looking at the potential players that could be building blocks for the future - the new coach started off by looking at past players - and maybe because he lacked confidence he looked at the Bulls as the foundation for selection.   The issue ignored the fact that the Bulls also went backwards during the period.   He talks about experience - but that experience became not an anchor - but a liability.   I believe that the more expereienced players in the squad are part of the main problems in the team.

Lets face facts - there are two facets of play that needs attention - serious attention at that.   Our forwards are not performing properly and our backline players are decorative and not used properly.   The present coaching set-up have NO (IDEA about backline play) - that is why we are stuck with clueless players in the backline.   If Meyer wants to save his coaching career - he better change his backline coach promptly and get a person like Eddie Jones invovled.    There are numerous others available and we can get some really imaginative backline play in place.   

Our backline selection is a joke - a bad one at that.   Hougaard is wasted at scrumhalf - he is clueless about the role of a scrummie and his ervice is not fast and effective.    No real backline coach would use him in that position - and if they did - they would really coach him what the real function of a scrummie is and how to implement that.   Morne Steyn is NOT a flyhalf that could give spark to backline play - he is one-dimensional and actually a failure as a flyhalf - a kicking flyhalf destroying backline play    I have always been a great believer in Francois Steyn and De Villiers - but they are both disappointing - very much so.   The French relized tht Francois Steyn as a 12 did not bring enough to the game and did not renew his contract.  I watched Metro play last night and the center combination of Metro was an eye-opener - that is really why they got rid of Steyn - yet he walked into the Springboks and was very disappointing.    De Villiers is way past his sell-by date.   And hen we have Kirchner as full back - what a joke.

Amongst the forwards - we must look past the pesent lot and see about replacements as well.   Our props have been disappointing - but players like WP Nel and even Kitshoff should have been used.   I think Spies is a joke and so is Alberts as  a loosie - he should be a lock - too slow to be a loosie.

There are a huge pool of younger players that should be looked at - to start a process looking at the future development of a sound team that could become world beaters - yet Meyer is stuck to the past.   Instead of experimenting with new talent to see whether they can make it on international level - meyer is "married" to the past and present failures.

I would never ever have started of with the selection of the players at present in the squad and tried to get back Du Preez and Mallettt as captain - both were acceptable in the past - I say acceptable - they never was real stars and both had serious deficiencies in their play.   I would have realized that the simple game plan built around Morne Steyn was a flopin 2009 onwards and drop him like a hot potato - and the Francois Steyn and De Villiers combination is also a past dream that has turned sour.

The only thing that Meyer can do is to get rid of the backline coach and also th dead wood in the player set-up.   The dead wood is espcially noticeable throughout the team and has to be dealt with effectively.   A number of players have to go immediately - the rest can be placed on final warning that they must get lost unless they start playing rugby effectively.

I would start with the backline replacements and look at the following players as the way out:-

15 - Kirchner is clueless and needs for a variety reasons to be replaced replaced.   Lambie and Taute should be in the reckoning.

Wings - We have Pietersen, Habana, Hougaard and even youngsters like Howard around.   Ample talent in this case.

Centers -  Francois Steyn should be told to start playing to potential or go.    Same with De Villiers.   The latter was made captain by Meyer to the end of the year - and he would not change that.   I would place players like Jordaan and even Brache and JP Du Plessis  on the bench and start to use them properly   I am afraid that the era of De Villiers and Francois Steyn is gone and a replacement programme is urgent if we want to go forward.

Flyhalf - Get rid of Morne Steyn as a high priority.   Goosen is the real star in the making - but we need to develop younger players to play if he is not available.   Unfortunately Jantjies proved in recent CC games that he is not the answer - and I hope some real potential comes through from the juniors.

Scrummie - We are in real troiuble here.   Pienaar is a reliable scrummie - but we need younger players tot ake over by 2014.   Vermaak has not played for months now - and I am unsure whether he is the answer.   Of the younger players I think Pretorius and Groom looks promising.

No 8 -  The best number 8 we have at present is Vermeulen - Spies and Alberts are no options.   Spies is on show 5 minutes per game and Alberts are way too slow to be an effective no 8.   Problem is also that Vermeulen is too slow to be an effective no 8.   I am beginning to believe Saffex - when he says the answer is to play Coetzee at 8.   The other options are Krankowski, Daniel and even Liebenberg.   My first choice would be Coetzee and he should be moved there forthwith.

Flanks - People talk about Brussow - but I believe he is not the answer at all.   I would prefer younger players to take over and would like to see how players like C J Stander, Du Toit and Elstadt and Liebenberg could be utilized effectively.   They are the future - not the present crowd.

Locks - Here we have Etzebeth as a key player.   We have excellent backup players coming through - like Elstadt, Roux and even Willemse - but the latter needs to get some discipline into him.   We can also use Alberts as a lock.    There are other players like Bressler and Kruger that can be in the frame - definitely not Bekker and Flip van der Merwe.  Another possibility is to use Du Toit as a lock.

Props -  Sorry but Jannie Du Plessis and the Beast are past tense.   The great hope is Oosthuizen - but there are other youngsters that could come through and here I think more specifically about Kitshoff and Malherbe as examples.   We should develop those three as the key to future Bok players.

Hooker - Bismarck would hopefully be back nexy year - but the answer to a back-up remains unanswered.   I am not happy with Strauss in the past two tests and Liebenberg is not the answer either.   I would in the home tests try out Fourie in that position.   Other than being an effective hooker - he is a better player in the looser format and can poach balls from the opposition effectively.

I say - out with the old wood - especially the under-chievers - and bring in fresh blood, but Meyer would not have the balls to do just that

 .

wrong on a number of accounts Mike.

It is clear that the Mallet of today is a great rugby thinker. He puts all those other guys on TV i sthe shade.  Why oh why i she not at least coaching a SA Super Rugby side!!!!!!!!!

Meyer was handed a side that had not been coached apart from some input from Rassie which saw an immediate and very significant improvment in the side  -so much that we might well have won the world cup given how mediocre the abs were as well - french were by some way better than them in the final but were robbed by our Craig Joubert.

Meyer inherited a shambles. Retired players and no succession planning etc. Then he has had a large number of injuries and finally he has very young players who he is wisely enough not keen to throw to the wolves. right away.

I have been saying for a couple of years beast was not good and Jannie average.  Now you add in kruger at 110 kgs at lock (the ghost of wee matfield - 107 kg -  raises its spectre again - love to see that wobblies prop Alexander get past Bakkies!!!) and a lightish hooker and we have the core of the problem. The tight five is not good enough.

If the props were good enough then perhaps Strauss - a classy hooker would be fine. However because they are both pap Bissie is missed no end. We need coenie and WP Nel in my book -  they are  far, far more dynamic outside of the scrum. We need Bissie back and failing him Liebenberg. For the test against the abs I would consider having Louw at 6, Coetzee at 8 and Vermulen at 7.

Funny enough in the last few minutes of the Argies game and the last few of the oz game we started to attack and looked quite good in fact. Meyer needs to get a mind change effected re attack.

Give Meyer some time guys. He is a shrewed coach and will incrementally improve the Boks. Deans has had 5 years!!!!!!  By the end of next year we will be able to assess if Meyer is taking us forwards or backwards. 2014 is the year we should be back on top - if we do the right things. We shall see.

Lastl yI do not mind buying time. If Bakkies is fit and playing well team him up with Etzebeth. Elstadt should be brought into the mix next years and Du Toit say in 2014.

I do note that the OFS front row gave the WP Kitshof and Malherbe a rough ride so take note of these OFS props. Need to see how old they are. Whatever the case Kitshoff looks a good one and at his age can only improve.  Malherbe looks a bit too passive.

Beeno

Funny enough I agree with some of your comments.   But forget about Bakkies - he is way past it and will teach Etzebeth all the wrong things.   Where I do agree with you is about the loosies - that would be an improivement.   Y

Your comments about the props of WP against the Cheetahs must be based on the first half performance - when neither Kitshoff and Malherbe was on the field - they came in the second half and the situation improved drastically.  

I ask again - where is Erasmus - he is out of the picture completely - and why not get a proper backline coach?   Meyer can save his coaching career - by changing things around and in fact I hope he has the balls to do just that. 

HM's first test and he has failed badly sorry to say. his failure is not just his own but of the system as a whole. lack of coaching skills in backline and technical savvy structures are a miss.

nothing is wrong with he players on the pitch nothing but they are playing a outdated style of game that is not winning rugby. i see even england has appointed a attacking coach so it just shows that HM and saru's pre jurrasic mentality towards the modern game.

HM was a great coach pre ELV's when the game was slower and his current game plan was a winning formula.

THE GAME HAS CHANGED...old conservative so called rugby pro's like beeno and hm it seems are obessed with there one track minded approach and in that is where there greatest downfall. we are in a transition phase where the older guard is being replaced by the younger players. irronic enough the younger players are smaller and much more skill full so playing a style that does not make best use of the players skillsets to your disposal is a complete joke. its coaching 1on1 to play and to make use of what you have at you whim.

i do agree there is a lot of junior players that are pushing for places but as i said previously HM is very one track minded and he only has short term success in mind. he has surrounded himself with jokes like laubsher and van graan what to me are not international level coaches.

a rookie like hooper outgunned far better bok forwards and not even mentioning our backline. morne's little drop goals just prove my point that as moz said in a post a week months backs "HM reign will lead to nowhere"

the size obsessed bash senseless style is outdated and does not work. techical errors and attention to detail is overlooked and there is just a drive and focus of getting bigger and no development. its a flawed concept and will lead to HM's demise

the aussies in my view was not great but we were nowhere. there needs to be a massive mindeset change or else HM will be with out a job soon that i can assure you. players like franna and co that a few weeks back looked great in the super 15 look flat and dull under the HM lacklustre approach

brussow outgunned the wp forwards on saterday and we need him more than ever.

mallet is hasbeen. took a team builded by carel du plesssis and rode his luck but when his game became easy to read he could not change thus rendering him useless and the whole ticket farce was just a excuss to get rid of him.

 Beeno, "so much that we might well have won the world cup given how mediocre the abs were as well - french were by some way better than them in the final but were robbed by our Craig Joubert." the way you were better than the Wallabies in Perth?

 ouch :)

@carpet

Did Mallett took the team builded by Carel du Plesssis?

Mate... lets be honest here...

You spill more shit on your keyboard by typing than in the toilet!

Mallett is renowned worldwide as a technician.

Just because he inherited some players doesnt mean that he isnt a good coach.

His record was fantastic!

Sure, his man management may not be 100%, but one can overlook that if we are winning 70% of our games.

Under Mallet, we were 1 drop kick away from the 1999 RWC final!

Look at Italy.... under Mallet they grew.... they caused some upsets in the 6 Nations...

When he was Bok coach, we F'd France, Oz and the Kiwis and Ireland!

He had an issue with test match ticket prices which got him in hot water with the SARU assholes, 1 month later he was out of a job.

Im just so sick of all the excuses!

... but remember everyone...

We lost because "we lost intensity"! ... fuckin dumb biggot managers and coaches...

With the players we have at our disposal, we should never lose to anyone besides the AB's from time to time!

Why have all the bloody acadamies, school structures and clubs if we are not utilising them properly!

Why waste money!

... i need to go lose some intensity quick.

Chat later! 

x

Chippo
 
Status: Squad member 
Posts: 304 RE: I'm sick of all this fucking bullshit!
September 10, 2012, 14:40:47

... i need to go lose some intensity quick.

Chat later! 

x

Have a nice cold one Chippo just don't do it before you drive :)

@chippo,

i had huge expectations for meyer when he took over the Boks, especially after the great work he did during his coaching tenure at the bulls, but international level might be one level too much for meyer, kind of like keegan daniel and the Boks, both perform well at super rugby level, but fail to make an impact at Springbok level.
in terms of form and what have u, meyers elcetions was justified, but even though the Boks may have had a lot of injuries, the players they did have playing still should have won all their test matches to date, with the exception of the wallabies test match which was 50/50, but slightly in favour of the wallabies due to the home advantage.

@ben10,

how can u compare the All Blacks win over the wallabies in OZ as some kind of justification to the Boks loss in perth???

fact, All Blacks had very poor handaling errors in that game, Boks on the other hand were more intrested in kicking the ball more times then bafana bafana did in their last game.

Sasue

Tour comments are classical - I must frame it.   The Springboks kicking away more ball than Bafana - must remember that one.  HAHAHA

@chippo just look at the stats and the teams that was selected since mallet took over from carel ??? this is well documented so please have a look. he the took over a internationl blooded team with the like of percy honiball, teichman already battle hardend. he did not change a lot and that same bunch of players led him to his record of victories. when the players got replaced the results ended badly. percy was brought trough the carel du plessis coaching stint. please go and youtube carel's last game at loftus when we drilled 60 + points against the wallies. mallets timing was just great when he took the helm. at WP here in cape town he achieved nothing but signing oversized island players that cant even drive correctly....that is his legacy. rassie managed to get the wp sorted out since mallet just blew money and did not build any structures

@sasue hahahaha i reckon morne will be a epic striker for the bafana team. they seem to climb the fifa ladder more when they dont play a game.