Is Eben our BIP?

Plum, the Stormers struggled in a couple of key positions during the past 3 seasons...and we've dearly missed Eben at crucial times, you can't measure Eben by how his team performed against the Lions for the past 3 seasons. That would mean that you will have to make all the Lions Boks? Bulle mentality? B ut that's not the issue, is it? You seemed to have made up your mind about Eben, no use to continue the conversation...who is the Lions 4 again?

Eben does a lot for the Boks. I can't speak for the Stormers of the past couple of years, as I haven't watched any Super rugby - aside from a few a Lions games. I can say that what I did see of him was that he was at the heart of what they did. 

Plums not so new pet "hate" . Some on here has been campaigning against Eben for a few years now. He disappears,  he has poor discipline...yada yada yak.

I don't think Plum hates any player. The "haters" - I really loath that term - don't encourage discussion and have a particular disdain for investigation. Plum is curious to know what we think and learn something new. Though we have a differing philosophy of the game, I enjoy reading what he posts. The thinking South Africans are an endangered species, those we have here should be appreciated. 

Auge, Plum basically stated that Eben is overrated.  I started a conversation to bring a different perspective to the table. Without answering the 2 questions, my perspective was swept aside as irrelevant because..., wait for it... the Lions has beaten the Stormers in Super Rugby for the past few seasons...therefore Eben "is all presence and very little else"

Can't waste my time trying to refute superior logic like that.

Well, I'll have a video up as time will allow. I can say this much, he makes far fewer errors than Steph! Fans typically latch onto whatever is the most visibl e in game. That and maybe a single event. A big tackle, or one run. The players who do the hard yards, the real engines of the team, they are often overlooked. Juan Smith, the best blindside flank I have ever seen, is a perfect example. 

Another good example would be Danie Rossouw

Auge..I'm glad we seem to be eye to eye on Eben's value to the team...and to think that he took on the burden of captaincy for the team when it was needed.

He regularly makes loads of hard tackles, a line out steal or two. Don't mention the open field tackles, often on fast backs, to save a sure try. His physical presence wears down the opposition to create chances in the later stages of a match, almost like an extra altitude advantage. He has been the go to guy for every coach since 2012, but noooo!!!!, he's overrated if he does not flash in the pants in every match...one of the few good things about Bok rugby for the past few years, but we must tinker with something that's not broken, just for the hell of it.

@Xavi: So true Xavi. He was a real team player, such a humble guy. Tough as a block of steel. I'll never forget how he carried the entire England midfield on his back off a scrum over the try line. It got us going that day after a shaky start. He was one of the best locks in the game, easily. Were there no Bakkies he would automatically be regarded as a legend.

@Herr Draht: I don't mind these discussions, so long as there is some honesty. It's an opportunity to learn something. By going over Eben's game more closely we can better assess his game and put the doubts to rest or reaffirm those concerns. The more we analyse the game, the more astute we become. 

What does it take to remember how sorely missed we were when Eben was out with a long term injury.......that to me says something.

Eben is the natural leader of this team. By quite some distance the best leader of any player in the squad. 

Easy there Draad. 

Sorry I didn't answer your questions. I thought they were rhetorical. 

Who'd I rather tackle? 

Hard to say. What i do know us that Eben doesn't make a great deal of ground with ball in hand. He is too big. Without looking at stats, I'll venture a guess that his tackle count per match is also pretty low.

Would be interesting to see how often he out tackles his lock partner. 

What I'm trying to do is understand why he's rated highly. Which most here do. 

And no I don't hate the guy. Far from it. 

I do think he needs to lose a few KGs though. He is way too muscle bound for his height and I believe it hinders him. 

The reason I brought up the Lions is because you spoke about presence. Something not one of their players, aside from Marx has. 

And they keep Eben dead silent. They're an SR team, with a small pack. What I'm doing is questioning the value of the presence you spoke about. Should it be an overriding factor?

And does a test team with a larger pack really struggle that much to blunt him?

It doesnt appear so to me. 

I also think that Even has been victim to some pretty shyte coaching over the years. 

Now the Rassie and Swys are in charge I believe he's getting much better instruction. 

And no, I don't want him to steal every show. You kinda exaggerated my point there. It's ok, I know you Stormers people are emotional beings...But that's just down to you not receiving summer rain

 I was also asking is why we don't ever really talk about Eben after games if he is really the best lock in the world. 

Even the guys like you, who know about lock play. You hardly ever mention him, even from an engine room perspective.

Plum, I was a bit snotty but not really p!ssed off.

Eben got mentioned his first game back. Stormers missed him big time this year. He does his work well, but he can be used even better. Someone on here (I think it was Devil's Advocate) mentioned a while ago that the player GPS data was analysed and that Eben read the game the best of all the Boks. Kolisi was second. I don't know how true that was, but it fits in with my observations and what I've heard from another source....well something to that extent.

Draad

Just let me know. I'll bottle some spring rain watmer fro the highveld for you and post it down. That way when you're feeling just blue, not blue AND white, you can mix a bit with some whiskey and you be right as rain...excuse the pun haha

Just kidding man.

How do they use GPS data to analyse his match reading?

I 100% agree that he can be made much more efficient/better use of. My feeling is that he's a victim of his size. It's a case of you, you look like a hammer so a hammer you are. And that's a coaching problem.

As i said earlier though, working with Swys is gonna benefit him because if there is one thing it appears Swys is good at, it's instilling some savy or smarts into players. And that's been missing from Eben's game a bit. That last moment off-load, dummy runs, knowing where to position himself when he's not needed in the ruck so that eh can clean quickly and powerfully or even take the ball up into a broken defence on a more regular basis. Those are some things i'd like to see from him. As Shark said, why not occasionally let him try hit a last defensive line at pace. And as you said, people would rather not tackle him. Stopping him from 5m out might be a tough task if times his runs well.

One other thing that i'd like to see is him making sure that he puts in one or two huge early hit. The kind that get the crowd off their feet. It looks liek that is what the Boks are trying to do latelly and its a facet of the game where he can make a hge cotribution. Getting that early power momentum.

What are your thoughts?

Eben is used to lead whichever POD he is in, very often. He has the hands and reading of play to make more demanding decisions. He is quicker off the mark than Steph and quite mobile. He is very straight backed, but I wouldn't go so far as to say muscle bound. He is a very flexible defender. The way he throws he body around is extraordinary. Leaping over players to make a last ditch tackle. Look at his defence on our goal line in Brisbane. Malherbe and Eben were massive in that goal line stand. Steph did well to get over the advantage line so well against Australia, he does well generally, but Eben does that im even game. I think he gets taken for granted.