Is Heyneke destroying players by forcing them to play his style of rugby

 Heyneke Meyer's belligerent belief that the style of rugby he employed at the the bulls I believe has ruined/is ruining certain players. Two players in particular spring to mind, Hougaard and Lambie. 

What we saw last year regarding Francois Hougaard was depressing if you are a fan of him, in the super rugby competition he was playing some amazing, expansive and fluid rugby. However, when he went to the boks Heyneke tried to turn him into the next Fourie Du Preez. This was a collosal mistake as we saw Hougi trying to kick far more than he would in his natural game, particularly form the base of the scrum, and as a result he started making errors and was shifted to the wing. And this year hasn't seen any change or guidance by bulls management in trying to settle him again. 

Now consider Lambie, I believe he is the in form flyhalf of the SA sides so far. What is perplexing is that he appears to be kicking far more than he did last year, this is a personal veiw of mine and I could be wrong. One can only assume that Heyneke's influence has something to do with this. He is playing some great rugby, my only question is that what is to day that kicking more can be regarded as an improvement to Lambies game?

Answer to heading of thread - YES without a doubt.  His selections are also for the type of game he intends to play (read lose).

Ekco

This issue was also quite etensively covered in the item "My fear for Bok Rugby this Year"  initiated by Saffex.

I do believe that Meyer is hell-bent on a style of rugby abolished by even the NH teams 3 years or more ago and there are no teams in world rugby today that is using that type of plan successfully.   The opposition has worked out counter-measures for that type of game plan and it is a real head ache for players nowadays.

I also agree with the two players that has suffered under Meyer.   He openly said that Lambie did not meet his requirements insofar as kicking is concerned and he would not bring him off the bench for the Springboks last year as a result.  Before selecting him for the EOYT he said he was now satisfied with Lambie's kicking game and then after the Irsih and Scottish test - he gave Lambie permission to "play his natural game" - the latter also in Meyer's own words.

Hougaard has been completely buggered up - his kicking from base last year for the Springboks was very poor and enough times charged down - hence his move to wing.   

Lambie is not playing his natural game for the Sharks this year - he must really feel threatened, because Meyer's first choice flyhalf (Steyn) has recovered his goal kicking form and must be back in Meyer's estimation - I suspect the latter will again be meyer's first choice as flyhalf.  I suspect that we are in for a terrible year this year from a test-losing perspective.

Meyer's plan - not even Drotske knows what it really is.   Is there really a plan in place - other than kicking and crashballing?  

Blaming Meyer for how Hougie and  Lambie are going is a conspiracy theory belonging to the fantasy rugby section. Look to the franchise coaches please. Believe me if Plum wasnt satisfied with how Lambie was playing he would address the matter and his wishes would prevail.

Lets hear no more twaddle on this matter.

Thanks

Beeno

You are talking rubbish here.   That game plan of Meyer is questioned even more than the role of individual players.   And to think the Fracchise coaches will have any impact on the players like Lambie i living in a dream world.   Lambie will play a game proving that he is better can keep  up to Morne Steyn - no doubt Meyer's favourite flyhalf and most likely candidate for the flyhalf spot.   That means he has to be on par at least with Steyn's kicking game.   Irrespective of what Plumtree tells Lambie to do - he will still have Meyer's plan in mind evry game he plays in - believing that it would be the only way in which he could be ahead of Steyn in the Springbok selection process.  

Lets wait and see - despite Plumtree's comments on Francois Steyn - I believe that Meyer will play Steyn at 12 so as to allow for his gameplan.   This plan cater specially for kicking and crashballing above any other scenario of backline play - since in Meyer's own words - "we do not have the capacity in SA to play a backline attacking game". 

In any event - what was said about Lambie's performances in the tests last year is what Meye himself said during 2012 - it is not based on hearsay or theory belonging to anyone.

Insofar as that so-called game plan is concerned - I would rather believe Smit and Drotske on their reading of the issue - than those of the Meyer psychophamts like you.   There is not much available about irt - but for the veiled criticism of Drotske and the open criticism of Smit.   What is evident is the absolute crazy selections for the training squad of players that shouldnever have been near that group.   Insfar as the latter issue is concerned - his selection of the training grooup is really not based on form in Super 15 - with players like Kirchner and Kankowski included.  Now suddenly due to injury of Vermaak - Reinach is called up - why was he not as the ebst performing scrummie originally catered for?

Meyer's thinking on the rugby game plan is at least five years out of date and unlike other clubs and teams he did not adjust his ideas to a more modern brand of rugby provided for in the latest rules on the game that cater for more flare and attacking peformances.   The man is a rugby phossil if ever there was one.  

That speculation has been completely disproved on numerous occasions before, At that period of time when Meyer was coaching the team in preparation for the europe tour, the specific statement he mentioned regarding lambie was his inability to maintain a successful rate at tactical kicking. Nothing more than that, i do not believe that Lambie playstyle was changed at that particular time. What about his current playstyle now? its still the same and always has been for the sharks, a tactical mindset. Last year when Lambie played fullback for the Sharks due to michalak being at flyhalf, it was difficult to understand why is this kid playing at this level when he doesn't meet the requirements to counter attack or successfuly do some clearance kicking at fullback correctly. The boks need a flyhalf that is less reluctant to attack the gainline.

Hougaard's abilty to outrun numerous of players with his speed from the wing position really gained some interest to involve him to a international level which he soon became part of the RWC 2011 squad on the wing. Not long after that Hougaard replaced Du Preez at the half back position which entriely ruined his form, tactical kicking was a issue. What some need to understand is you can not expect to see a quick winger play the same at scrum half its totally different, with the amount of space you have to run at scrum half ur certainly not going to see him play the same when he was on the wing, so did Meyer change Hougaard playstyle at scrum half? No not at all, people was expecting too much of him at scrum half thinking that he can play the same quick style wing in a different position which he can't. The lack of experience at scrum half was also a factor. People need to forget about that assertion it was a misunderstanding really.

I object!!!!!!!!!!   I am not a "Meyer psychophamts"  Ou maaaikie do you believe the CIA are after you by any chance?

Lucid, Hougies problems are in the mind and they are probably bulle based. Meyer hardly has anything to do with these guys much of the  year. The big influence is the franchise coach. ou maaakie and the snapster simply have this vendetta against Meyer and hence these wild conspiracy theories being passed off as factual!  I mean take their evaluation of Meyers very difficult first year  - in no ways can that be reasonable.

What Hougie needs to do is look closely at Sarels game. Watch how alert Sarel is, how he finds wayto attack the opposition and creat try scoring opportunities etc. He could also look at Genia. Hougie is an attacking scrumhalf. Granted space is less at scrummie but he is not using his assets regarding pace and ability to break a line. A good scrummie keeps the attention of the loosies and must pose an attacking threat.  As I have said before Hougie somehow doesnt flow too well at scrummie. Its a mental thing. He should be told to go for it! Thow off the shackles and have a go. Look what Vermaak did on Saturday!

Beeno I suggest you avoid mentioning the CIA to Lucid...he has enough trouble in sleeping at night...lol

And I suggest you write and inform Hougie your advice...What Hougie needs to do is look closely at Sarels game. Watch how alert Sarel is, how he finds wayto attack the opposition and creat try scoring opportunities etc. He could also look at Genia.

I'm sure he'll appreciate it !

@Lucid

I have to disagree with you unfortunately. Firstly from what I have seen is Lambie kicking the ball more out of hand and showing less willingness to attack and throw the ball around. And why do you think the boks  "need a flyhalf that is less reluctant to attack the gainline." No one anywhere would say that a player like Morene Steyn was ever in danger of attcking the gain line. If anything we need a flyhalf that will attack the gainoine even more and create more chances by bringing an aspect of unpredictabliity to our attack.
 

With regards to Hougi, when he was given free liscense to play his style fo rugby at scrummie for the bulls he was electric, shwoing that he plays a very similiar game to that of Genia when given the chance to play his game and not try be "the next Du Preez". Granted he does play some nice rugb on the wing, the only problem with Heyneke Meyers gameplan of kick and chase rugby is that he rarely gets the ball as it rarely makes its way donw the line. Another point is that Meyer is always on about SIZE, this being his justifiaction for excluding players like Aplon and Joe Pieterson, and lets face it Hougi is no giant so what makes picking him on the wing ahead of players who play there regularly. An arguement can be made for the his versatility at scrumhale as well as wing, but the same arguwement can be made for Aplon and Pieterson. The risk of this is the Hougi may become a jack of all trades, master of none and we have all seen what that can do to a players international career (Brent Ruseel springs to mind).

Ecko
I stated 'the boks need a fly half that is less reluctant to attack' in other words less hesitant to attack, i think you misunderstood my assertion. I agree we need a flyhalf that has a sense of unpredictability to our attack but that wasn't the case with Lambie for the boks in the previous matches which had nothing to do with Meyer. Lambie is playing the same for the sharks, he currently doesn't fit the requirements of what is needed in the boks. In comparison with Lambie and Morne theres not much of a difference as many people would like to believe, both very average flyhalfs which is nothing compared to NZs up and coming talented flyhalfs that is developing. In regards to Hougaard he is very far from playing the similar playstyle to Genia, i wouldn't mention the two in the same sentence thats a joke, he is a winger nothing more.

 Lucid, Ecko is spot on regarding Hougaard and you are speaking complete kak. Hougaard is completely wasted on the wing, is not a wings backside. The lad has played 9 all his life and when on form prior to playing under Meyer, was at times the best 9 in the game.

There is no better attacking or defending 9 in the game and his service is spot on. His kicking game is average. Thankfully he will be back for the Bulls and will be our Bok 9 later in the year

Aplologies Lucid i did misread the first post regarding attacking the gain line.

Allow me to clarify rin respoect to Hougi, last year I saw specific instances in matches he played that were similiar to that of Genia. I believe that if given enough time in the position and under the right coach he has the potential to be a player of that caliber, in that position. Genia didnt get to where he is over night, experience and good coaching played a big part in that, yes he had the god given talent to begin with but he was nurtrured by coaches and look at the result. I believe Hougi has the talent, but playing him at scrummie only a few times and trying to coach him away from his natural talent/style is counter-productive and thus the reason he is playing on the wing. My point is that by trying to force him to play a way that does not come naturally is ruining him as a player.

What is your take on Heyneke choosing him, yet saying others are too small. I will admit he is very strong given his size but you cant say that Aplon doesnt lack the guts on commitment, he has the concussions to prove it.  

Ecko
In response to your question that is what is my take on Meyer choosing Hougaard. Well its quite substantial that Reinach was latter a replacement for Vermaak at scrum half, Reinach has better understanding as to how a scrum half should attack than Hougaard, Hougaard is more clueless in Attack. As far as size is concerned i thought it was strange he regards Hougaard as a potential player but not the others such as Aplon as you mentioned who is also small but has the commitment. Generally players get selected based on the form in the Super 15 and i assume thats part of NZ and AUS coaching system, it seems as if thats irrelvant to Meyer's mindset. What did Hougaard contribute to the team so far at Super 15 level? not much at all, the majority of the time Vermaak was playing more for the bulls. My only reasonable explaination for why Hougaard was being selected is his personal relationship with the coach, perhaps they get along well and understand each other, its certainly not based on solid form whats so ever.

Lucid

I now understand where you come from as to the Lambie- Hougaard issue.   Lets deal with Hougaard first.   I think that Hougaard is over-rated as a scrummie and that the best scrummie we have at present is Reinach.   But a Bulls contract in such circumstances take precedence over everything else and Reinach's inclusion in the training squad was a sham made only because Vermaak was not avaiable.

I beg to differ from you about Lambie.   He never really could be regarded as a Morne Steyn style flyhalf - he did have different strings to his bow and played at times some really good rugby - especially in the CC last year when he had to take over from Michalak.   Then followed the comments from Meyer about his deficient kicking game and everything change to a mini-Morne stituation.

Like Drotske I still fail to see what Meyer's game plan is - or even whether there is any plan beyond the number 10 in place.  Whatever it is - it is not working at all.