Jagueros a Major threat in Super Rugby

The following from News24:-
"Argentina's Jaguares are set to be a major force in Super Rugby 2016. 

That is the view of Stormers coach Robbie Fleck, who said this week that the tournament newcomers were one of the biggest threats in the competition.

 

The Stormers have won three of the last five South African conferences in Super Rugby, but in the new-look 2016 tournament an African group will see the six South African teams joined by the Jaguares and Sunwolves (Japan).

It is a tough introduction to Super Rugby for the Argentinians, who have to play against New Zealand opposition in their debut season alongside the Sharks, Lions and Kings in their conference. 

But Fleck is expecting big things. 

"I don’t really want to focus on the South African sides, I think that we all know what that’s all about," he said from Cape Town.

"I certainly feel that the Jaguares are a threat in the African conferences.

"That’s a tough pool that the Lions and the Sharks are in. I really feel that if you go according to what they did at the World Cup and the amount of players they’ve got in that squad that were at the World Cup … I think that they’re a real danger.

"Not just only to the African conference, but to the New Zealand sides as well. They are the real threat in this competition."

Fleck stopped just short of calling the Jaguares title contenders, but he did suggest that they would be able to challenge any side in the tournament. 

The Stormers will have an early look at the Jaguares when they host them in a pre-season friendly at Newlands on February 13. 

The sides will clash in Super Rugby on March 26 in Buenos Aires."

I wrote about this a while ago and said that the bookmakers offered odds of 16/1 - which has since dropped to 10/1 - making the team the favourites in the SA Conferences.  Fleck is very late in identifying the issue.

 
They certainly have the potential to challenge for top spot but one has to take into consideration that these boys aren't used to playing such a high standard of rugby week after week.

I think exhaustion will catch them mid season and could put pressure on their depth.

I see they're up against the Cheetahs first up.

We'll soon see their mettle.

Glad to have them aboard.
 

 

 Those who have been paying in Europe have the experience, CC. Remember that their European competitions and their domestic competitions runs at the same time, which means that the same players who are involved in the Champions/Challenge Cup are also involved in the Top14/Premiership/Pro12, etc. The result is that their domestic (Top14, Premiership, etc) is at the same intensity as the European competitions.
I am not too sure, off the top of my head, how many of their team have been involved in Europe but if a large number of them have that experience, I would not be surprised if they see the season through. The other advantage for them, IMO, is that by the time of the RC, they will already be gelled into a cohesive unit, where the us, OZ and NZ would still have to "get together" from all over the show again. Add to that the fact that the new SA coach would hardly have set-up "his office" by the time of the start of the RC. Although, if the rumours about Rassie as an interim coach, are true then that would probably not be an issue. The only drawback of that, on the other hand, is the fact that Rassie could eventually prove to be a train smash waiting to happen.  

 Ceradyne
I will be very civil in my response.   Let me be brief - the type of rugby played in NH competitions is not what is required in Super Rugby.  The "stampkar" model does not work in Super Rugby and that is why SA aides struggled in Super Rugby over the last few years.
The NH style of rugby has also changed to some extent over the past few years - but the WC last year proved that they have a very long way to go.  
What I am implying is that the experience in Europe is not going to help the Jagueros in view of the style of rugby required in the SH.  It would help them from a physical fitness and strengt h perspective - but that is about all.  What will help them is that they are already in the Rugby Championship and they have caught up with playing that style of rugby.     

 
Fair comment , Ceradyne!!

We will no doubt see what they bring to the mix.

I hope they present us with a high standard of play all season long.

Look forward to it.

Kinda rooting for them a little.

Same here, I really hope they do well. Ultimately the more the fringe rugby nations are exposed to rugby, the better it is for the game. In Arg football is definitely their premier sport, but thanks to their inclusion in the RC and now in Super Rugby rugby is growing there . Hopefully it will eventually spread to other South American nations as well. I know I am drifting off topic a little here, but I think Sevens rugby is also doing great things for the exposure of the game to other nations! 
Mike, the rugby up North may not played at the same tempo as in the South, but the Argies know that having played plenty of rugby against the Southern Nations. I think they will be plenty ready! Anyway, with the exception of the Lions, which SA franchise has fully embraced the "Southern" style?    

If Los Jagueros aren't a real contender in this year's S18 then international rugby must be a lot weaker than we all think.

I just can't see how a team that has got to the semifinals in 2 of the last 3 RWCs is suddenly going to start losing to nations that have divided their playing strength by 5 or 6!

I think they'll be real contenders and I won't be at all surprised if they win the thing. Then we can start talking about splitting them into two separate franchises . . . which is probably what should have happened in the first place.

Spot on Rooi.

 @NotsoCleverMike. So, civil it has to be. I see that you still do not quite understand NH rugby. We are talking about the rugby played by the clubs/franchises in the SR and European competitions here. You are talking about the national sides in the RWC. There is a difference.
The rugby played in the NH Euro and domestic competitions are played by players from all over the place, i.e. NH and SH players. The rugby played in those competitions are nothing like the rugby played by the national sides. You cannot therefore compare the rugby that they play in the 6N and the RWC to the rugby that they play in the Top14, Premiership, Pro12, Rugby Champions Cup, etc. 
In any case, I do not understand what your response has to do with what CC and myself were discussing, i.e. would the Arg players be able to keep up with the intensity of Super Rugby. Bugger all to do with the style of rugby played in the NH v the style of rugby played in the SH.
What next? Are you, once again going to try and convince me that the Currie Cup is on a higher level than the Top14 and the Rugby Champions Cup?

 I was raising a point Ceradyne does not understand - namely that the style of rugby makes a huge difference - it is a higher-tempo game than played by NH clubs.  I never said anything by the Clubs compared to the CC - we are discussing Super 18 here - not lower level rugby.   
So let me remain civil - despite the idiotic barb in his message.   What I am saying is that the type of rugby played at test level and the next lower level - Super 18 in the SH and club rugby in the NH - is nor much different from each other.
Experience playing NH rugby does not cut in the Super 15 - we saw it last year for the Sharks - but what he missed out on is the fact that Argentina - having played in the RC - has been able to adjust their style to conform with SH conditions and style of play - something Meyer and the SA Super Rugby coaches - except for Ackerman - has never managed to do.  That as I stated before - is why SA sides in Super Rugby are not up to standard.    They tried to maintain the "stampkar" rugby - which other Super Rugby sides learnt to deal with with ease and they never managed to change  the way Argentina did.  
However, too many of the SH players in Europe are used the "stampkar" rugby amnd unable to play any different - so they do not really add value to the NH clubb rugby insofar as comprehensive rugby is concerned.            

 Mate, you seemed to have learnt a new word, "stampkar rugby" and you seem to enjoy using it at every possible opportunity. To say that they play so-called stampkar rugby in the NH just shows how removed and/or ignorant you really are.
The only difference is that, in the NH, the game sometimes seem a  bit slower. You see just as much running and "open" rugby as in the SH. There is just as much, if not more, ball handling skills in  NH rugby than SH rugby. I can direct you to numerous clips demonstrating just that. In fact, IMO, some of the play of even loose forwards  often show great handling and running skills. As an example you can have a  look at Juan Smith's try in the  2013/14 (if I remember correctly) Heineken Cup final. It started where Johnny Wilkinson managed to get the ball away despite a heavy tackle on him, followed by an excellent piece of skill by Drew Mitchell and then superb interplay between Lobbe and Smith to round it off. I seem to recall that Juan  Smith caught the ball one-handed almost behind his back.
Have a look at these clips. The first is tries of the 2013/14 HC season. The second is from the 2012/13 HC season.
HC 2013/14

HC 2012/12

One with tries of the round in the Champions Cup
I will see if I can find the one with Juan Smith's try again.

 @Mike.
Juan Smith's try

 I have seen a lot of NH rugby matches and will not waste my time explaining what happen in rugby is concerned.   There are good tries in some cases - like in the Recent Racing Metro game - but on the whole there is a huge difference between NH and SH rugby and the difference showed when NH teams play SH teams in tests.  
  

You are still missing the point Ou Tokkie. I would suggest that you revisit the post by CC, to which I originally responded, and try to see what the initial issue was. 

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Looking at the Jagueros roster in Testrugby, they could put a phenomenal side on the field.
Creevy is one of the best hookers in the world, Leguizamon/Senatore/Matera could be the best loose forward trio in the comp, Sanchez/Landajo are very good halves and Cordero/Tuculet are absolute burners on the outside. Throw in JM Hernandez, de la Fuente and of course our buddy Ole Cruz and they will be contenders.
Based on their World Cup game plan, don't expect a "stampkar" approach.