Jake's Montpellier climbs to second....

 Mike the sales for the last company I ran was $12 Billion. But have a go, tell me what you think the budget numbers represent for these clubs.

Here we go again . . .
"No really, I'm a great success, I have lots of cars including a Me klarrin (sic) and a house with gargoyles to prove it. I even have a Kelloggs Cornflakes diploma! Why won't anyone believe what a wonderful success I am? It's not fair!"
I'll tell you why no-one believes you, Moffie. Successful people don't boast and brag the way you do, successful people don't behave like spiteful little liars with the emotional maturity of a 6 year old and successful people are usually educated to the point where they can spell words correctly and string a grammatically correct sentence together.
Hope that helps!

 Can't stand it can you....I see no bragging just facts. Just a factual response to a factual challenge. If you want bragging check out Clevermike's posting. Which companies did you run, divisions, departments....offices? Gosh did you ever manage an employee?

Wehe, no surprise that the self-important old toad measures success by the department he was once in charge of.
My criteria for success are very different to yours, Moffie. To me a hard-working blue-collar worker (the kind of person you call a "grunt") who behaves with integrity, treats people with respect and raises good children is far more successful than the boastful, ostentatious and materialistic old liar who is despised by his own children and who has no discernible life outside of this rugby message board . . . which in itself is a bit cringeworthy given that he's a complete rugby noob!

Yes, stay down, you weak little man. Probably the first intelligent thing you've done on this board.

 Actually I was otherwise engaged. So what's your latest attempt to post your first points. Ah I am an unfeeling capitalist who spends my time admiring my success.  The contradictions are rife, I'm not succesful but I'm materialistic, my kids despise me but you aren't spying on my private life, I spend time on the rugby  board but I never said the Boks wouldn't win the 2007 WC.....oh and I don't care for blue collar workers even though I managed over 10000 of them.
The truth is your life is a failure, so you can't stand success....you never emigrated so you can't stand those that did......and jealousy and booze are eating up your insides.
I actually feel sorry for you and especially for your family who are condemned by your weakness.

 Actually I was otherwise engaged. So what's your latest attempt to post your first points. Ah I am an unfeeling capitalist who spends my time admiring my success.  The contradictions are rife, I'm not succesful but I'm materialistic, my kids despise me but you aren't spying on my private life, I spend time on the rugby  board but I never said the Boks wouldn't win the 2007 WC.....oh and I don't care for blue collar workers even though I managed over 10000 of them.
The truth is your life is a failure, so you can't stand success....you never emigrated so you can't stand those that did......and jealousy and booze are eating up your insides.
I actually feel sorry for you and especially for your family who are condemned by your weakness.

Haha, the fool who said ou Maaik's duplicate posts were becoming embarrassing!
Schplott!
Moffie summed up in a single sentence: "you can't stand success....you never emigrated so you can't stand those that did."
Running away from South Africa when you realized the going may not be so good (and by all reliable accounts, for no reason other than your pathological and racist hatred for black people) is your idea of success? 
What a weak little loser you are. At least we South Africans don't hang around message boards of the country we ran away from, telling the members how stupid they were for staying.
If you think you're so wonderful and clever for getting out and moving to the USA then embrace your Yank buds and rather hang around their message boards and their stupid primary school playing field sports like rounders, gaining-ground and netball.
Begone!

 Mozart - to be quite frank you miss-interpreted the whole issue,   You have a 28 million for player salaries.   That does not tell you who the players concerned are - it merely indicate a squad of 30 players,   You can change all 40 players in a year and still spent the 28 million on player salaries,   What happened here is when White took over they made a check on the present player contracts and performances and they terminated the contracts of most of the players and replaced them.      The budget figures indicated by you said nothing about the actual player complement involved.    All the players involved can still change and the amount will still be the same.   For your information Montpellier did not extend their squad - they just replaced the players involved.   White recruited most of the new players from SA and from the Brumbies and also from other clubs in the UK  and France.   So when he played teams he selected most of the foreign player he recruited - they became two thirds or even more of his run--on teams.     It was so bad that in some cases there were only three French players in his 23 man squad.  Since there were such major team changes a comparison with the previous year performances is  misleading and inappropriate.  This type of thing in fact is seriously detrimental to player development in France 0 hence the outcry in France about some clubs and essentially also Montpellier = where the situation is at present the worst of all club s in Franc.      

 Mozart - to be quite frank you miss-interpreted the whole issue,   You have a 28 million for player salaries.   That does not tell you who the players concerned are - it merely indicate a squad of 30 players,   You can change all 40 players in a year and still spent the 28 million on player salaries,   What happened here is when White took over they made a check on the present player contracts and performances and they terminated the contracts of most of the players and replaced them.      The budget figures indicated by you said nothing about the actual player complement involved.    All the players involved can still change and the amount will still be the same.   For your information Montpellier did not extend their squad - they just replaced the players involved.   White recruited most of the new players from SA and from the Brumbies and also from other clubs in the UK  and France.   So when he played teams he selected most of the foreign player he recruited - they became two thirds or even more of his run--on teams.     It was so bad that in some cases there were only three French players in his 23 man squad.  Since there were such major team changes a comparison with the previous year performances is  misleading and inappropriate.  This type of thing in fact is seriously detrimental to player development in France 0 hence the outcry in France about some clubs and essentially also Montpellier = where the situation is at present the worst of all club s in Franc.      

 Mike your thesis was Montpellier only succeeded because Jake increased the amount paid for players. But the overall Montpellier cost budget in 2015 increased less than average. 
We don't have the player component, which apparently for French clubs is less because they run broader businesses within that budget, like restaurants.....but still it is a significant piece.
So it seems unlikely any club could dramatically increase their player spending without being close to the top in total budget moves. And also because the French have strongly policed salary caps and most clubs are apparently pressing up against those caps, making unusual increases pretty much impossible.

So it's likely Montpellier player budgets were not increased more than other clubs. If they successfully changed the players, good on Jake, he did it without over spending.

Frans Steyn sends Coetzee a timely reminder 2016-09-27 10:15 share this Frans Steyn (Gallo Images) Related Links

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Cape Town - While Allister Coetzee insists he's happy with his current stock of centres, Frans Steyn has sent the Springbok mentor a timely reminder of his midfield skills.

Steyn, currently plying his trade with Jake White's Montpellier team in the Top 14, scored an incredible individual try in his side's 42-13 demolition of Brive on Sunday.

Steyn, cutting a slimmer figure than in recent times, received the ball after a long pass, cut inside and stepped past three opponents on his way to the tryline.

Montpellier are currently third in the Top 14 after six matches.

Steyn, 29, has played 53 Tests for the Springboks, with his last match in the Green and Gold coming against the All Blacks in Dunedin in 2012.

TOP 14 ? Essai François STEYN (MHR) – Montpellier-Brive – J6 – Saison 2016/2017

 Hopefully Coetzee's taken note of Fat Fransie and his once off accomplishment. It's these once off accomplishments that we need to draw into the mix.   
Fat Fransie would be perfect. De Jongh, Kriel, Goosen, Habana and HouGat are part of an incomplete backline and Fats would complete the circle nicely. 
However ... there may be a problem with the colour mix and so a white boy needs to be dropped. An easy fix ... replace Faff with Paige.
9. Paige, 10. Steyn, 11. HouGat, 12. De Jongh, 13. Kriel, 14. Habana, 15. Goosen.
Now that's a world beating backline.
Can't wait to see the drop attempts from our 22.
What's a test match without the occasional ball voer voering into the crowd, huh?
Go Bokke!!!!
 

"9. Paige, 10. Steyn, 11. HouGat, 12. De Jongh, 13. Kriel, 14. Habana, 15. Goosen.
Now that's a world beating backline."

No room for Mvovo?

 Of course ... what do you take me for ... a dumb ass??
Don't answer that!!
He's on the bench with Morne as backline cover. We seem to like a 6 - 2 split.



   

Of course. Makes perfect sense.

Let me pick the forwards . . .

1. Coenie Oosthuizen
2. Bongi Mbonambi
3. Lourens Adriaanse
4. Eben Etzebeth
5. Lood de Jager
6. Francois Louw
7. Oupa Mohoje
8. Willem Alberts

 Mozart
The issue about player changes at Montpellier is very easy to check - just go to the Montpellier Rugby Club Wikipedia website and you will find the present list of club players.
The list contains the names of the following:-
SA Rugby Players      -     14 namesGeorgia                    -       4 namesFiji                           -       3 namesAustralia (Brumbies)  -       3 names
Of those 24 names listed 6 names were contracted this year for the first time this year and 18 last year.   Aside from the above changes made by White there are also some changes made by bringing in French players as well.  
The player changes were so comprehensive that there was n comparison between the teams fielded in 2014 and those fielded in 2015.
Please do roper homework before you make comments on issues - it makes you look exceptionally silly.    

 Here is your statement that kicked off this tangent:
The owner of Montpellier made available a fortune to contract new players and White fielded a team with only 3 French players at one stage last year.   There was NO possible comparison with the previous year because it was an entire; different player squad last year compared with the previous year.  The two rugby world experts did not even realise that - but no real surprise on my part.     

Implication? Montpellier spent more money than other clubs to change it's personnel. They didn't. Everybody knows Jake changed his team to get success.....that's not in dispute, presumably he felt he had to do that to compete and it's pretty standard that a new coach changes the team.

He didn't succeed because of a boat load of money as you state.....he succeeded because he is a very competent coachfinding the players he needed to win. The improvement in Montpellier is down to him. And no doubt like the Boks, the Brumbies and the Sharks they will decline after he leaves.

 Mozart
That is not the point that really set off the argument.   The point was a comparison made by you between the performance of Montpellier in 2015 compared to 2014.   I then pointed out that he spent a fortune on getting new players - but that is still within the budgetary amount available to him.
I also stated that he terminated contracts on a large scale and that allowed for the contracting of new players possible.   But even then the Montpellier budget did increase as follows:-
2013-14         Euro  17,51 million2014-15         Euro  22,54 million2015-16         Euro  23,46 million
So the Montpellier budget increased by 5.03 million (28,72%) in one year for Jake Whites player contracting.  That did in fact represents a fortune in any event.   I stay with my original argument - it is not possible to make a reasonable comparison between performances  in 2014 and 2015 - end o f story.   

Yep and as I pointed out in the year 2015/16 when you said Jake was spending for success, Montpellier was 10th in budget increases. So the great player buying spree you accused him of is nonsense.
His predecessor seemed to spend money before the 2014/2015 season. But it all flopped because Jake was brought in half way through the season to right the ship.
Case closed.

 Mozart
White went to Montpellier in the latter half of 2014.   Remember dim one that the seasons in NH rugby starts in one year and runs over to the next year.   So what you are writing is balls - but that is very normal because you do not think before you write.   His predecessor made some of the buys because the Du Plessis brothers were highly upset by White's appointment and it was all over the papers.
However, fact remain the main argument all along has been your statement that White caused a huge improvement in the performances of Montpellier between 2014 and 2015 and the real reason was a vastly improved squad where they made a hugely increased amount available for player contracting. 

Stupid deduction on you r art is proved 100%.       

You can't just take all credit away from the coach and give it to the contracted players. No matter who you contract, you're still left with a new squad that needs to be bonded into a unit to play winning rugby. 
Sure, there are other factors at play here that needs consideration, but to just say better players is the "real" reason that Montpellier improved so drastically, while having no insight into the coaching systems or the work behind the scenes is just short-sighted and relies on pure conjecture. 
It's much more likely a mix of all those factors, with the ability of the coach to identify the players he needs to execute his plan and bonding them into an effective unit front and center.

 Pakie
I just reacted to Mozart and you claiming White was solely responsible for the improvement.   Granted he had a better playing pool to work with and did well using them - but only crediting White is crazy.  

My word Tokkie you really are thick. The substantial budget increase was for the 2014/15 season...the deals for which were probably mostly done before June 2014. By the end of 2014 whatever player changes resulted from those deals was not working.....the coach was fired and Jake brought in for his first game in Jan 2015 I believe.
Then for 2015/2016 Jakes budget increase was lower than average.
The squad may have changed for 2014/15 but it never worked for the prior coach. Whatever changes they made only worked when Jake came on Board.

Thicker than thick the prior coach was not in charge of the team for the full 2014-15 season.   Jake White took charge of the team midway through the season.   Despite that the team was not performing well enough and was relegated to the European Challenge Cup and was poor in the Top 14.    The results in both did not improve in that season  after White took over.   The recruitment of the foreign players took place in the main under White.   In 2015-16 the Club showing was much better and that basically resulted from Clun player renewal during the course of the 2014-15 season.   So your statement about White being responsible for the improved performances in the latter season is utter BS.   He was the coach in the latter season  of a vastly improved squad.  
However, despite that improvement Montpellier has decided to replace him at the end of this season and did not approve renewal of his contract.   If White was that good  would that have happened?       

Never said the results improved in the 2014/15 season .....plank. But they did dramatically in 2015/16 when Jake had his own team, put in place with less additional funds than most other teams and less funds in total than any other team in the Top 6.

 This is BS.  White took over in mid-season in 2014-15 and the team showed no improvement.  They terminated the contracts of a string of players and replaced them basically with players from SA ad other counties and the team that much better in 2015-16.   It was a much better squad worked with so the results were better.   You claimed the only difference  leading to the improvement was White as coach.   That is the most stupid argument ever o this site - a new record in the stupidity stakes set by you after you held all the previous records as well.
If White was such a good coach would Montpellier not have extended his contract?  Answer that one - my feeling is that White lasted longer at Montpellier than he did for the Sharks and there reasons were  basically the same.                

 This is BS.  White took over in mid-season in 2014-15 and the team showed no improvement.  They terminated the contracts of a string of players and replaced them basically with players from SA ad other counties and the team that much better in 2015-16.   It was a much better squad worked with so the results were better.   You claimed the only difference  leading to the improvement was White as coach.   That is the most stupid argument ever o this site - a new record in the stupidity stakes set by you after you held all the previous records as well.
If White was such a good coach would Montpellier not have extended his contract?  Answer that one - my feeling is that White lasted longer at Montpellier than he did for the Sharks and there reasons were  basically the same.                

 It's relatively easy to take a team of stars to heights unheard of.
Ask Meyer and his Bulls side. They gave Meyer credit for the Bulls success and yet my auntie could have done the same with that side. Anyone could have.
Jake made no difference with the side he inherited. He had to purchase his way to the top. 
Nothing to do with any of his so called coaching skills.
A big wallet is all that he needed.