Jantjies at flyhalf - a history of disaster

Jantjies first came on the scene on Super Rugby level in 2012 for I believe the Lions.  However, it was a jumbo ride for the Lions - good followed by bad and when he was bad - he was very, very bad.   There was a game against the Stormers where he virtually on his own lost the game when he ducked out from under a high ball when he saw the players following up and the Stormers scored a try and he was run over in the same game resulting in a try being scored.   During that game Jantjies was subbed early and that caused havoc in the Union when Strauss - the then Lions captain - and Jantjies was instrumental in the complaint letter be addressed about Mitchell.   The  result of that when a hearing was ultimately held only Strauss and Jantjies turned up at the hearing and the case was thrown out - resulting in Mirtchell getting an award or irregular treatment.
Morne Steyn was such  disaster in the tests in 2012 that Meyer selected Goosen as flyhlf with Jantjies on the bench.  The first test against the Aussies was OK - Gooen did exceptionally well and Jantjies was giving 6 minutes playing time when the game was already won.  However, the subsequent test was a disaster when Goosen was injured after 34 minutes and Jantjies came on.  He had an atrocious game and in the second half he was substantially ignored by the other players who refused to pas balls to him.  That was the only test where Jantjies had experience on test levelad he was so poor that Meyer never included him in the test squad.                 
Despite the above Coetzee paid him a fortune to play for the Stormers in 2013.   He was a rank disaster for the Stormers and they could not get rid of him fast enough - matter of fact in the last few games in Super 15 rugby he was not included in their starting team.
Jantjies went back to the Lions and did well in most matches- but in some he was a disaster as well,  In some games he could not convert goal kicks that was missed and in most cases he showed the real problem there really was all along - his defense bordered on the non-existent.  Under pressure he caved in and that leads to serious for his team.   I always thought he is what I would call - a text book player.  He knows the theory of what is required from a flyhalf insofar as passing and kicking of balls is concerned - but he is not a good reader of the game and therefore make wrong decisions - especially when under pressure.  
It is because of the latter aspect that I believe that Jantjies is really not test material .         

Jackl and Jantjies Hide. He was bad yesterday with the overlap passing. I am not sure- but it seemed like the opposition were waiting for these passes to intercept them.

The only thing I find funny here is the author of our thread thinks Goosen is a real test flyhalf and believed Swiel is one of the two best Springbok Prospects he has seen in years. Jantjies may not have the bottle for test rugby, but he is way better than those two flops.

What is funny is that the responder is the great advocate for having the Steyns as flyhalfs.   They were serial flops since 2012 and even Meyer dropped Morne three times in 2012 and 2014.   Not even Meyer would consider Fransie as a flyhalf.  But then we must know that according to Mozart the only real function of a flyhalf is to kick balls away - irrespective of how aimless and inaccurate such kicks are.  
Jantjies is not test material - but he is way better than the two flops Mozart supported.      

 Oh sure, I quote Wikipedia
 'Steyn has won an U-21 World Cup, 2 Currie Cups, 3 Super rugby titles, 1 Tri-Nations and a French Top 14 title'.

What has Goosen won. Is Swiel waiting tables? 

 I can clearly remember the Under 21 WC final - it was in Argentina - Steyn missed virtually every kick at goal in that game and for the rest was a dud in the game - the team won the game despite Steyn.   The French title he won - he was on the bench for 70% of the games and was useless when he came on.   Another case of winning a title by the team - not by Steyn.
By the way we are talking about since 2012 - not before that - but then you think only about the past and not the present.    The dud at work again.    By the way Steyn lost us matches which we should have one - remember your excuses and cover-ups of the Perth debacle in 2014?           

What a steaming pile of crap!
Elton Jantjies has played consistently good rugby for two straight seasons now and in the absence of Handre Pollard and Pat Lambie, he is head and shoulders above the rest of our flyhalves . . . but let him have one ordinary game and all the people he has shut up so convincingly for 2 seasons now suddenly come out of the woodwork saying "I told you he was rubbish".
Pathetic!

@mikey,

"Despite the above Coetzee paid him a fortune to play for the Stormers in 2013.   He was a rank disaster for the Stormers and they could not get rid of him fast enough - matter of fact in the last few games in Super 15 rugby he was not included in their starting team."
janties had a very poor season while at the stormers, but there were a number of factors that u need to remember like,,,

- janties is a true attacking flyhalf, and the stormers are a soccer team pretending to be a rugby team.
the two were a match made in heaven, if heaven really meant poos.
while south african coaches have proven time and time again to know nothing about ball in hand attacking rugby, coetzee and the rest of the 2 bit bob assistant coaches at the stormers know even less. which is impressive when u think about it, cos theyre negative in both numerical and outlook meaning.

- the other and most important factor to remember is janties old man had recently passed away before that spXV season had started.
anyone who has a close relationship with their old man the way it was reported janties had with his, knows that it can be heartbreakingly tough to deal with. some people take longer than others to grieve.
the body language janties showed that whole season was one that said im just not interested.
im not saying thats what happened in his case, but IMO its one of the biggest contributors.

janties is a class player who has an attacking game which could really shape the Boks future, but he just needs the right coach, and theres no saffa qualified to do that at the moment.

 I agree with you on Janties Naru-san, especially the impact that the death of his father had & also on the fact that he needs to find a coach that will develop him & keep his confidence & maturity growing. SA needs more depth a fly-half (in fact for most of the positions in the backline), tossing Janties aside is not the way to go IMO.

 Link to update on Janties injury - should be fit to play

It's not one bad game, it's a confirmation of prior failings. It says when Jantjies is under pressure in tests you can expect hospital passes, missed touches off penalties and inaccurate goal kicking.

That doesn't mean he is a nasty human being....it just means he lacks bottle. That was also true of his role model, the Quaalude. But in part it's the playing style....last second, no look passes are going to suffer when your opponent is close enough to blast you with the garlic breath from yesterday's dinner.

Mike as ignorant as ever.....no change there......my guess is that Frans Steyn is also still useless under Jake White at Mont
Agreed Rooi......you are spot on.....Jantjies was anything but poor in that game unless these clowns would like to point out exactly what he did that was poor
Sharks pathetically has an issue with his over the top pass that got intercepted.....it was the right kind of pass to effect, had it gone to hand the Lions would have scored.....that's rugby for you
For the rest, he passed well, attacked the gain line and kicked well for the most.....he had a solid game.....Barrett was no better and if he was that would have been very marginal thanks to playing in a winning side.
Good old Mike knows fuck all about rugby.....but is closely followed by a number of others on here.
For the record, Goosen as he is proving in France remains a class act.....Swiel looked a great prospect but its clear he has no hard edge....I'm happy to concede on him. Goosen no way in hell......Jantjies has been brilliant this year, a pleasure to watch.....a revelation in fact......no 10 in SA is able to create like Jantjies can......Pollard is the physical all rounder but he does not have Jantjies magical touches.....which were never going to feature on the back foot

 Dave 
Have you had a look at the stats iro Jantjies before you give him this undeserved write-up?   That intercept try from Jantjies pass was rubbish.  No player should make a pass like that with the defenders between him and the intended recipient.  That is looking for an intercept.  What was poor the pss was inaccurate as well, firther helping Jane to collect the abll with an open tryline in front of him.  
For the rest Jantjies never made a single tackle during the game and his passing to players in a worse position than he was can be judged as hospital passes.  The whole issue relates to Jantjies under pressure and Jantjies under pressure is not a nice sight to see.    He failed in the past when under pressure and even though I thought he got over it - the moment he came under pressure he folded.   I do think this guy would not be n acceptable test flyhalf - Jantjies magical touches was nowhere to be seen in the game on Saturday - it can be there if not under pressure - it went badly missing on Saturday.            

 Yes his stats are good you fool.....only a conservative fool would tell me that a player should not throw a looped over the top pass when there are defenders in the way.....what utter fucking rubbish......just as the commentators said regarding that pass......it was the right pass that if had gone to hand, would have resulted in a Lions try.....are you too stupid to work that out huh? Does every pass go to hand in rugby huh
Jantjies, 17 passes, 4 runs, 12 m gained, 3 defenders beaten......in a losing side.....what issue do you have with those stats huh?
Of course there wont be magical touches in a game where you are on the back foot you fucking idiot.....its like talking rugby with a 2 year old
There was absolutely nothing wrong with Jantjies game as his stats clearly show......the issue was with the Lions at the breakdown
Jantjies is by FAR our best 10 right now, no 10 comes close......the only reason he might not be the Bok 10 is because useless Coetzee does not like him, given his treatment of this class act when he was at the Stormers
Your rugby ignorance is so fucking boring

 You may believe what you wish - but the facts showed for themselves that Jantjies was pathetic.    A long overhead pass with opposition players in the immediate vicinity is lunatic play - whether you like it or not.  

You dumb fuck......every long pass overhead......has opposition players in the way you idiot......that is the reason you send the pass............geez, do I really have to debate with such ignorance......go away man, you are too stupid Mike, seriously.

 " The French title he won - he was on the bench for 70% of the game and was useless when he came on."


Low life doos, ComradeMike, at it again.

If MS was on the bench for 70% of the game, then please tell us who was the flyhalf that he replaced 70% through the game. Even better still, explain how, if he was on the bench for 70% of the game, he could kick goals 15 minutes, 22 minutes, 29 and 80 minutes into the game.

The team sheets for the game:

Stade Français Pens Lopez (38), James (61) Pens Steyn (14, 21, 28, 79)     Team 15 FB Nick Abendanon 14 W Jean-Marcelin Buttin 13 C Aurelien Rougerie 12 C Benson Stanley 11 W Napolioni Nalaga 10 FH Camille Lopez 9 SH Morgan Parra 1 P Thomas Domingo 2 H John Ulugia 3 P Davit Zirakashvili 4 L Paul Jedrasiak 5 L Sebastien Vahaamahina 6 F Damien Chouly 7 F Julien Bardy


13 8 N8 Fritz Lee     Replacements 16 R Benjamin Kayser 17 R Raphael Chaume 18 R Julien Pierre 19 R Alexandre Lapandry 20 R Ludovic Radosavljevic 21 R Brock James 22 R Mike Delany 23 R Clement Ric     Team 15 FB Djibril Camara 14 W Julien Arias 13 C Waisea Nayacalevu Vuidravuwalu 12 C Jonathan Danty 11 W Jeremy Sinzelle 10 FH Morne Steyn 9 SH Julien Dupuy 1 P Heinke van der Merwe 2 H Remy Bonfils 3 P Rabah Slimani 4 L Hugh Pyle 5 L Alexandre Flanquart 6 F Antoine Burban 7 F Raphael Lakafia 8 N8 Sergio Parisse     Replacements 16 R Laurent Sempere 17 R Zak Taulafo 18 R Pascal Pape 19 R Jono Ross 20 R Jerome Fillol 21 R Meyer Bosman 22 R Geoffrey Doumayrou 23
Davit Kubriashvili

I will give you this. You never let the facts get in the way of a good story, do you?

Jantjies was not good- but apparently he was also injured during the game and should have left the field earlier. 
He must get credit as the best 10 for SA this year- particularly with both Lambie and Pollard not in the picture - and the tests soon.

 Ceradunce
You are stupid - he was on the bench 70% of all Top 14 games played and the one you quoted is part of the 30% he Was starting.   Jy is so toe soos 'n klei-os se gat.     

 That, and the ones in the play-offs, were the most important ones and the crunch ones where a cool and experienced head was required and he rose to the occasion. The French press obviously acknowledged him accordingly.

In any case, your maths is letting you down as usual, as well.

Shark, what exactly did Jantjies do that was poor?

Defense

Jantjies                                                                    Barrett

Tackles   made             43                                          45

Tackles missed            20                                            15

Tackle success            68.3%                                    75% (Not great for either player)

Turnovers conceded  9                                              14 (Advantage Jantjies)

Summary: On defense both show weaknesses in tackling. Barrett has committed more turnovers.

Attack

Jantjies                                                                      Barrett

Tries                         2                                                 5

Points                       111                                             115

Carries                      51                                               64

Meters                 134                                              487 (advantage Barrett)

Clean breaks             2                                                 11 (advantage Barrett)

Defenders beaten   12                                                 20 (advantage Barrett)

Offloads                    13                                                6 (advantage Jantjies)

Try assists                  7                                                5

Passes                     229                                               257

Open play kicks        53                                                  79  (Barrett kicks more)

Summary: Barrett makes many more meters on attack; many more clean breaks and defenders beaten. Jantjies does well in try assists. Barrett kicks more.

Conclusion: Jantjies isn't doing too badly, not a disaster at all. Give him more time.

Stats extracted from the NZ Herald database

Barrett, like Pollard does more attacking himself than Jantjies does....Jantjies strength is his ability to create space for those around him, hence his try assist stats......Jantjies has a great sense of awareness....knows exactly how to put a player into space, be it with a flat pass, long pass, reverse pass....or by boot.....his vision and touches are sublime at times.....a gift you cant teach.
But when Jantjies does decide to attack himself, its often very productive as he has a good eye for a gap with a good step on him.
In the form of his life.....by far our best 10 right now......even if Pollard and Lambie were fit, my guess is that Jantjies would still be our best given how good he has been this year....much like he was last year

 Jantjies is a good first five - his only problem is the amount of time he takes to look at himself in the sideline mirrors and brush his hair -->no mirrors, no problem -->Jantjies starts admiring his own thighs --reminds me of a certain Luke McAlister.