Jean de Villiers - how long can he last

De Villiers is at present 31 years of age and has been playing on CC or higher level since 2002.    

The first time I saw him playintg in real life was in 2002 when he played at center for WP and the particular game was against Griquas in Kimberley.   I really thought he was a revelation at the time and was not surprised about his later development as a Springbok - where he played at center or wing.

His acute ball sense and speed often led to interceptor tries and he really was an exceptional player.  In the last two years he showed less in attacking ability and seems to have lost some of his earlier speed,

In essence the playing career of De Villiers was constantly interupted by injuries.   That cost him a place in the 2003 WC squad and in the 2007 WC he started in the first test and got injured - whereafter he missed out on the remainder of the WC - resulting in the moving of Francois Steyn to center.

The above were the most prominent injuries.   On Super 15 and CC level De Villiers also had some serious injuries over the years.   He was injured in Super 15 this year and was out of the CC final as well.   Problem with injuries are that the older players get  -

  *    the more frequent becomes injuries;and

  *   the longer they taake to recover from injuries.

Basically I believe that Jean is approaching rapidly the end of his rugby playing career on international level.  One can only hope that he does not get injued in the coming Super series.    Injury would play a role - but I really believe that it is unlikely that Jean would play on international level after 2013. 

He is done, he should no longer be considered for the Boks, end of story.

We have Frans as a dead cert for 12 and a number of players with their hands up for 13 including Taute, JP, JJ, Jordaan and as an outsider Pat Howard

Oi! ...Here we go again, you said exactly the same about Habana and ushered in Joke-ou as his replacement.....you just don't give up do you?... fok man, I've never known anyone to be so hopelessly thick.

I take it a thick prick like you was impressed with Jean all season - why not enlighten us on how good he was.

As for Habana, he was crap when I made that call - FACT

As a matter of fact when compared to your new fixation, Taute, then yes I am.....you see, Taute is no centre, not at international level that is but hey I'm not about to pry that fixated bone from your vice like jaws, I'd rather you choke on it so that I can laugh at your unbelievable ignorance.

It's just an observation.

Counter this you stupid prick - his showing against Oz at 13 was better than any other 13 playing for the Boks this year.

If he is so average in your wise eyes as a centre, then how on earth did he by some distance gain more metres, make more breaks and beat more defenders at 13 than any other  SA 13 in the S15 huh? Not to mention the fact that he was playing for the last placed Lions!!

Chew on that you ignorant twat, better still provide me with a rugby related response on just why Taute is not a 13 given those stats - take your time

Listen Shotgun....got that?..listen....did you read me saying I'm not about to pry that fixated bone from your vice like jaws Huh? Now, child, wipe the froth your mouth and have a think about what I've said....there now, that's a good little boy.

Saffex

With due respect I sincerely believe that Taute has decided the best option for his future career - and that is NOT to play at center at all.   I do believe that he thinks that he is a better full back than center and that was proved in 2011 when he played at full back for the Lions.

Alloww me to quote from the Lions website written at the end of 2010"-  

"Taute may be just 20 year old, but he has already succeeded in making a name for himself, and will no doubt go a long way in the game. Taute made his Currie Cup debut at 18 years of age, his international Super Rugby debut at 19 in 2010, and represented South Africa at the U20 Junior World Championships that same year. Taute is a huge talent and has grown tremendously in stature over the past year. A fine attacking fullback, who is safe under the high ball, Taute scored seven tries in the 2011 Currie Cup, making him the 3rd highest try scorer of the competition. Taute was a nominee in the SA Rugby Player Awards in 2011, nominated as Currie Cup player of the Tournament, but he lost out to teammate and captain, Joshua Strauss. Taute need only to continue with his current for and he should soon be representing his country and wearing the green and gold,"

The above wass written whilst he played at full back for the Lions who moved him to center in 2012.   He was not remotely on par in his new position compared to what he did s a full back.   He himself said that - when a made his announcement that he would in future play at full back - playing at center does not afford him the opportunities that playing at full back would give him.    Taute himself wants to continue his career at full back and we will see in Super 15 whether that would be the answer.   Personally I share his point of view - namely that he should be allowed the choice of his future career and I sincerely believe he is a better full back than center.

Insofar as JJ Engelbrecht is concerned he made a serious career error by signing up with the Bulls.   The latter team has becomne known as the graveyard for centers and both Sadie and Engelbrecht suffered badly as a result.   Sadie was eventually ignored by the Bulls and signed a new contract with the Cheetahs - personally I think we will see a completely new rejuvenated Sadie next year.   Very poor performances in the CC games after his release froim the Springbok squad- despite what you say,his performances were really poor - have resulted in serious damage to his career of Engelbrecht.   There is no way that without a mirauclous recovery in performnces in  2013 he would be included in the Springbok squad in 2013.     It would have been in his own interest to move away like Sadie did in an effort to recover his earlier promising form.   Be it as it may - at present he is NOT a serious consideration for selection to the Springbok squad. 

Under the cirrcumstances as outlined the possible inclusion at 13 of Taute and Engelbrecht in the Springbok team has gonre AWOL 

I think Jean has been one of our better backline players this year. He should be around for 2013 but I would like to see guys like Jordaan, Allende getting a chance. Slowly bring in these young guys.

Taute of course must have a shot at 15. Fortunately this is very much on the cards. Goosen should understudy lambie this year. Allow these kids time to grow up. No rushing them into the Boks snapster style please.

Beeno

I am very worried about De Villiers - he has never gone through a year without at least two injuries abd I think the coming year may even be worse.    What I think should be done from the first test is - depending on rhe availablity of De Villiers - is to designate two alternative centers based on performances in Super 15 - put at leasr one on the bench and phase them in from there.  

If performances in Super 15 on the part of Francois Steyn or Jean is not up to standard - we may be in a deeper mess and may have to identify a third center.   I am sure Taute at full back will get ample playing time in Super 15 and so will Jordaan at 13.   I hope the Stormers use the same method to phase in De Allende at 12.   Personally from what I have seen  De Allende is a player with really top potential at 12 - very strong and fast with beautiful off-loading abilities in tackle situations.   Really a skillful player with massive potential.

I agree Allende looks very promising. I feel confident tha tthe sharks will whip Frans Steyn into shape and mike this boy is a world class talent. You dont just lose it that young. Also we have Jordaan who should have been on tour.

We also have Du Plessis who should some great touches. So I wouldnt worry too much. Who knows how Sadie will go. Amazing fall from grace that was but Cheetahs will do him good.

Hopefully jean will be in the mix guiding the youngsters etc. My expected combo is Frans and Jordaan so what they do for the sharkies will be of great interest. I recall in the WC before he got injured some very good distribution skills from Frans. He has a nice step and when he sheds some flab a fair turn of speed and a lot of grunt.
 

Whatever the case the 4 nations will be a fierce contest next year and dont be surprised if the abs stumble.

Let's look at Taute versus Jean, in Taute's best match....against Oz at home:

 Jean makes 40 m in 9 carries....Taute 15 in 7. Jean makes one clean break....Taute none.  That performance of Taute, is the Sapp's candidate for best showing by a 13 this year......hahahaha.

Then the poor bugger set up the ABs two tries the next week. After which he, his coach, and his dog said he should play 15. Not Sapp who is fully in on the Taute is a great 13 line of thought.

Jean was our second best back this year....best I'd give to Habana. But Jean also directed the defence and the team as a whole. He served us well without missing a minute of playing time.

Moffie, Jean never had a single good outing at 13, in fact he was piss poor. There is no doubting that Taute's showing against Oz at 13 was the best by a SA'n by some distance. If those stats say that Taute never made a break against Oz then they are wrong, for a break should include beating your man, for Taute did that everytime he challenged his opponent, the fact that he did that in traffic speaks volumes and something those pathetic stats dont indicate.......much like any of Jean's breaks this year were not down to his beating a player but more down to being put into space.

Those stats are flawed as they cant provide context. Rely on the eye, Jean all of maybe 3 solid outings in his 13 appearances for the Boks this year. The guy was poor and part of the reason the Boks failed. You cant challenge with average centres. Jean was good in his day, that was some 2 or 3 years back.

If Jean plays next year we will slide from that 58% win record, for he will be that much poorer as a player

Gorgeous Denise, take your time over that counter, I have all year pretty boy!

Hahaha....the dog is still guarding his bone. Immediately after the AB match Taute, Western Province, the Boks and Taute's dog said his best position is fullback.....putting the best spin on a disaster. Only the bulldog continues to believe he is a centre...just as he believed JJ hahaha Engelebrecht was a test centre. Thick as a brick!

i thought JDV was consistent in 2012, still has a lot to offer the team with his wealth of experience, but i cant see him playing past 2014 with all the talent coming through.
i also cant see meyer changing the 12 f steyn/ JDV 13 combo next year either unless forced by injury, mark my words they wikll be the midfield pairing again next year.

i would also wait to see how jordaan performs in 2013 spXV, no need to push his selection at top speed, gradually introduse him to the team.

the biggest issues is how meyer will make his selections, cos that touring squad he took on the EOYT nearly half the team didnt get a sec of gametime, despite playing the likes of ireland and scotland,

@clevermike,

i cant recall JDV missing any test matches to injury in 2012, isnt he one of the few players to have played every test match, or were u referring to all matches including spXV etc???

Moffie the only stupid prick around here is you for at no point has Taute ever said his best position is fullback, nor has Meyer ever said as much. Meyer has ONLY ever played him at 13 for a reason.

The only time that fullback has been mentioned is by Taute when it came to his chances of making the Stormers starting 15 next year. His words were that he wanted to be considered at 15 for he saw that as his only realistic chance of making the Stormers starting 15. Poor call by the kid given the Stormers have past it Jean and out of his depth de Jongh at centre. Taute, Pat Howard, JP du Plessis and de Allande are all better options at centre for the Stormers.

The only place Taute will play for the Boks is 13 - why is that - because Goosen will play 10 and Lambie will play 15. If you are too stupid to grasp the obvious then so be it. We'll talk in time to come and as per usual I'll be rubbing you old face in it

Sasue

De Villiers was injured during Super 15 and also during the CC competition - not in tests.

Saggex

Sorry - but you must be dreaming.   Taute never said for he saw that "as his only realistic chance of making the Stormers starting 15".  He on the other hand gave sunstantial reasons why he prefer to play at 15,   I do not know where that  highlighted words came from - it was definitely not in the statement made by Taute.

It really is funny - here is a Springbok no 13 saying he would not realistically make the Stormer squad.   In the meantime the Stormers have a very good full back in Pietersen as well.   I am 100% sure Taute siged that contract with the Stormers on the specific agreement that they would use him at 15 - not 13.   He saw what happened to other players who got used in the wrong positions and did not want to get caught again.

Whether you like it or not - Taute is going to play at full back in future in his preferred position.   That is his preferred position also bearing in mind where he started off for the Lions and performed brilliantly.   He will not play at center in future - end of story,  

-

The fat man is just lying through his teeth...standard practice when he bombs.

Nope I dont need to lie that's you Moffie and you know it. Most of the crap you post regarding what I say is a bunch of lies look no further than the selections of Olivier, Murray, Greyling and the likes.

Mike get this into your stupid head, Taute was quoted saying he wanted to be considered at fullback for the Stormers as he saw that as his only chance of making the Stormers starting 15 as he saw little opportunity of making it at centre, given the presence of Jean and de Jongh. He said that he did not want to warm the bench for the Stormers, he wants to progress and the only way he can do that is with game time - FACT.

At no point has he EVER said he prefers fullback, he would not be that stupid this early in his career.

What Taute actually said 25th October:

Springbok centre Jaco Taute has indicated that he would like to play full-back for the Stormers in next year's Super Rugby tournament.

Taute, who will be on loan at the Stormers from the Lions, said although he has no qualms about playing centre, his primary aim was to be considered for the Stormers at full-back.

"I don't have a fixed position, but would really like to be considered at full-back," he told Die Burger newspaper.

"Obviously I'd also play centre if required. My strong point at full-back is my attacking game.

"I can also play a tactical game because I mainly played fly-half at school."

Another quote 24th October 2012:

When asked where he thinks he would feature in the Stormers line-up, Taute believed fullback would be the ideal position. He has been selected at centre for the Lions and Springboks in recent months, but the Stormers squad already has Jean de Villiers, Juan de Jongh, Marcel Brache and JP du Plessis in their midfield department.

‘I will play at centre or at fullback, but also I want to play where I’ll get a decent amount of game time,’ said Taute. ‘That would probably be fullback. I don’t mind because I’ve played there since I was a schoolboy, so I’m very comfortable in that position. I only started playing centre for the Lions because of their injury situation

Also from world news: Jaco Taute could make his first Test start in his preferred fullback position for the Springboks against Ireland next Saturday, while Morné Steyn and Francois Hougaard are likely to run out at flyhalf and left wing respectively in Dublin. Bok coach Heyneke Meyer, speaking at a press conference at a city hotel yesterday, said that despite handing Taute a Test debut at outside centre against Australia during the Rugby Championship, he believes that the new Stormers recruit can bring “something different” in the No 15 jersey.

So  draw your conclusions. Looks like Taute would play either if required but would like to play fulback. Meyer seems to think fullback is his position in future.

He could play both I guess but looks better at fullback. Our two flyhalves are Lambie and Goosen and Lambie will in 2013 be the guy mostly preferred as Goosen needs to be managed very carefully and allowed time to grow up - he is still only under 21 next year!.

Zane although reasonably competent is not adding what aguy like Dagg does. Taute with his running ability could add spark to the Bok backline. Meyer has twigged to this.

Snapster is probably basing his argument on the second post but looking at the three articles it looks like its 15 for Taute during 2013.

Please also note snapster that Lambie will be the sharks flyhalf in 2013 (Even rooitwit knows that!!!!). Meyer will not then go and play Lambie at 15 for the Boks.

No its all slotting together very well.

Beeno

Thanks for posting this sgain.   I personally think that Taute would prefer full back for the resons stated by him , namely -

"My strong point at full-back is my attacking game.   I can also play a tactical game because I mainly played fly-half at school."

A full back has a better tactical opportunity and more space to play in than a center and the result would be -

  *    effectively joining the backline in attacking moves; and

  *    himself launching sniping attacking runs from full back.

In essence I thik that Taute showed in 2011 much better performances at 15 - than he did as center in 2012.   Taking into account his 2011 performances as amplified by the extract I posted above - I would say Taute has the potential toreally be one of the top flyhalfs in world rugby.   He would not qualify for that at center.

By the way Taute mentioned Brache - but did not mention De Allende.   I rate De Allende highly at center - Brache not so much so.

Jean no doubt puts his heart and soul into the bok jersey, BUT he is not SA's answer especially as a captain. He has past his sell by date and is made to look very average against big sides. We need new blood that can spark the bok backline players and start playing running rugby again that creates tries. The AB;s and Aussies do it and that what puts them one step ahead. And yes i know we are ranked no. 2. We scrapped through a lot of games and we can do better

What I dont get is how bloody stupid you lot are. Why on earth would anyone with half a brain want to play Taute at 15? Can it be anymore obvious that his only real prospect of playing for the Boks is at centre - why is that then?

Well if you were a coach with substance and injuries aside you were selecting the best Bok side possible, you would want Taute, Lambie and Goosen in that starting 15 surely. If this is not the case, rugby is not your game.

So, if we are to play Taute, Goosen and Lambie in the same side, the only options are Goosen at 10, Taute at 13 and Lambie at 15 - more obvious than that you cannot get, but alas there are many clowns on here who cant seem to comprehend this very basic fact. Hell some twits would even want to retain the washed up Jean in the equation, a player who this year unequivocally proved he was past it.

 "Obviously I'd also play centre if required, "but" My strong point at full-back is my attacking game.

What is his strong point at center?

Not touch finders that is for sure. He gifted that counter attacking oppertunity try which was the nail in the coffin try in Soweto, by not making touch.  

Lets just hope he is not required to play flyhalf, the wheels could really fall of then. 

Does that one kick define his abilities as a kicker? Not to mention the fact that people missed tackles resulting in that try that started from the missed touch. How on earth an outside centre can be blamed for a try by missing touch is beyond me.

Had it been a seasoned 10 who missed touch then fair enough, but reality is those 10's miss touch often enough anyway - its part of the game

The basis for team selection can never be to pick three players and then try and find space for them by manipulating them to play in positions -

*   way from where they believe they should play;  and

*   where they in fact perform less than what they themselves regard as the posiion where they perform better and where they should play.

Taute definitely prefer to play at full back and he in the past performed better at full back than he did at center - hence his view of the future position in whch he would like to specialize.   The same proinciple applies to Lambie - who clearly decided to play at flyhalf in future.

You prefer to manipulate team selection to fit into a picture you painted yourself - but it obviously is not the picture the players themselvves decided on.   There is just no basis in accordance to which teams can be selected on the basis implied by you and it can only lead to  career-thretening situation.   The people that suffer in the process are not the outsiders like us - they are the players themselves.

Coaches may for a while - mostly on the short side - try and experiment with players outside of their natural positions - like happened in the case of Pietersen being played at 13 - but the end result always shows that the performance quality deteriorates and the player is sooner rather than later returned to hei natural posiion.   Incidentally Pietersen was an average to poor 13 - but is one ofthe best wings in the world.  That type of experiment cost matches and the early record of the Sharks in 2012  - whilst Pietersen played at center -  was atrocious - part of the problem being a disfunctional backline. 

Mike try catch a bloody wake up, I am not asking Taute to play lock or Gossen to play prop.......for crying out loud.

Get this little fact into your head. Taute plays centre or fullback, Lambie plays fullback or flyhalf and Goosen plays flyhalf.

So given these very facts how on earth can you begin to imply any player would be manipulated into playing an unfamiliar position? Am I have a rugby discussion with adults here or am I dealing with kids.........it is beyond my comprehension that this very obvious fact is not being grasped.

Unless of course in your world, Taute has never played centre and Lambie has never played fullback - wake up man.

As for your take on where these players want to play themselves, that is all bullshit........no youngster is going to tell the coach he only wants to play in a certain position. Fact is Taute is good at fullback and centre, same can be said of Lambie at fullback and flyhalf. Therefore the coach in order to have all three players starting, has to have Lambie at 15, Taute at 13 and Goosen at 10. If you cant see that you are stupid

As for JP being poor at 13, bullshit he was great there - so much so that Meyer was going to play him at 13 for the Boks until Habana got injured.

 Saffex why would've Meyer played JP at 13? That would mean either moving Habana to 14 which isn't really his preferred position and then play Hougaard who is in a rough patch or the incompetent Lwazi Mvovo?

Saffex

You read - but you don't understand.   It never entered your mind that the Pietersen execise at 13 did not work out.    Let me put it bluntly and highlights it - the early Super 15 games of the Sharks in 2012 was very unsuccessful and unsatifactory   The main reason was that the backline was disfunctional.  Plumtree made one mnajor move - he moved Pietersen back to wing and brought in Jordaan at 13.   The backline play changed overnight and it became the most potent backline of all  SA franchises.   Pietersen was a deadly weapon at wing - which he definitely was not at 13.   If the above does not tell you that the experiment of playing Pietersen at 13 was not successful - then heaven knows what will prove it.  

You cannot prove me wrong in the above case - the match results and voideo review of the game speaks for themselves.   You thought the move of Pietersen would work - and you blinded yourself to the factual situation on the ground - namely that it did not work out as originally foreseen.   What the above prove is that coaches should be very careful abut moving players around and play them out of posirion that they prefer to play in - the performances in the original position is always better than in the new positions they have been moved to.

I never made any statements to the effect that Lambie has not played at full back in the past and that Tauute did not play at center.    Lets look at the issue of Lambie and Taute seperately and see why they prefer to play at flyhalf and full back respectively:-

Lambie   

Throughout his career Lambie alternated between playing at full back and flyhalf.    Looking at the siiuation globally - he always performed better at flyhalf than he did at full back.    However, he basically played at full back because of the Michalak contract with the Sharks in 2012 and then became the bench full back for the Springboks.   The coach virtually never played him at full back in the tests and he clearly was on the way out.

By October it became evident that his career was in jeopardy and he decided to play at flyhalf only in future.   Once moved to flyhalf he was a different player - he was exceptional in the CC competition and good as Sprinbok flyhalf 

The difference is that Lambie is a very good flyhalf - and a very satisfactory full back.  That is why it would be detrimental to play him at full back.  In any event Meyer is not about to elect him at full back if he - like he will - play for the whole Super 15 season at flyhalf.

Taute

Taute in 2011 played at full back for the Lions - and he really was exceptional - so much so that he was nominated to be the top player in South Africa.   

However, in 2012 the Lions moved him to center and he played in that position until he was injured,   He came back after injury and played in 2 fmes before he ws selected to play in three tests at 13.   At best his performances at center was nothing more than average to slightly above average.   

The same argument as in the Lambie case applies here but even more strongly.   From being an exceptional full back - he is moved and beame an average center.

In any event Meyer is not about to elect him at center if he - like he will - play for the whole Super 15 season at full back.