I was travelling so I missed the rugby this week. But in spite of considerable hype, I note the only SA backs to make the 365 TOW are Jean at inside centre, and Mvovo....both bubbling under.
Bless me, I almost forgot......I also noted Morne was MOM in his match. Credited with nerveless kicking and a few inspired passes....he apparently won the match for the Bools. Whereas Jantjies was described as just as poor as his scrumhalf partner. Imagine that!
Greetings Moz, what a weekend it was with the Rebels and Reds whacking the crusties and chiefs.
The bulle got lucky and won their game from all honest accounts. Sharks romped home.
We struggled with a maniacal Cheetahs side but prevailed but now have a loose forward crises.
Of course the one point lead the bulle have over the Stormers makes them red hot and the Stormers hopeless. Hahahhahahahahahaha
As for Jean, good luck to him although he didnt do too much. Showed his pace when he came from well behind to almost catch gasman Willie le Roux in the corner. Should have opened daveou's eyes but he probably missed that one altogether!
Where did you go if I may ask?
Is it just me....it seems like Jantjies is dishing out hospital passes on a regular basis. I'm surprised that there isn't a mortality rate from those being hit ball and all after receiving a pass from him. Voeitog, I don't know if the kid had a future in the sport but it sure seems like there's none now.
Morne was fantastic kicking at poles, I must have missed those wonderful passes and would one expect ones test flyhalf renound for his kicking, to miss two penalty kicks for touch. Morne was as bog ordinary as ever and once again made an impact given his goal kicking - bless him.
Jantjies as ever was far better with ball in hand despite the pathetic service from that insult of a 9 in Cronje.
Jean as Beeno correctly pointed out did stuff all. How he was named as the Bok 12 ahead of Taute is beyond me
The flyhalf spot is now between Morne, lambie - who was brilliant for the sharks and Grant who was also man of the match.
Jantjes suffers from playing in a bottom dwelling side. Taute though has really played well and must be brought into consideration Bokwise.
Given Morne is the incumbent, his tes texprience and is Hougaard's partner he seems set to keep his spot. Poor Grant was denied honeymoon leave because we need his services!! First things first.
I think you will find that the hospital passes were thrown by the 9, unless you are blind or something?
Its the old problem of playing fields not being level. That is why trials were a good thing.
I do not question Jantjes ability but just his head. Lambie makes very few mistakes. Goosen similarly. However Jantjes has more pressure on him and tries hard to inject attacking flair into the Lions backline. Talented player and not to be trashed.
It has to mean something to play in the bottom team on the log.
That als ois a nother reason for taking note of taute. Pretty complete player - note the nice little chip aheads. Good boot, nice footwork, good pace and power. Frans and Taute look to be the future Bok centers.
Wonder who Frans is going to sign for?
Grant is the most underrated flyhalf in the country, the Stormers have him to thank for their achievements, it seems to me he's having his best year ever.
I remind you Dave the 365 team is chosen by 5 experts.....apparently Taute's slow motion, Titanic-like runs don't impress them. Jantjies is a kind of poor man's Quaalude. My guess is he studies Quaalude tapes. But denny makes a valid point, imagine being the poor bugger who has to take man and ball outside him!
Interesting point on Jean's pace Hasbeen.......I also noted a passage saying he had cover defended to catch but not stop Willie. Hell Taute and Fury couldn't cover defend a prop.
Mozi it was very telling. Willie got an intercept on the far side of the field and was away. Jean was miles behind and had to run back across the field some 60 meters. Jean is actually very fast and in the end just missed him.
Case closed.
Moz, I think the most glaring difference in Morne vs Jantjies is wrapped up in the words of Clint Eastwood and I quote from the movie " A man has to know his limitations"....Morne knows his limitations, Jantjies has yet to discover his, Morne cuts his cloth to his limitations and performs consistently well within those boundaries whereas Jantjies has delusions about pioneering a razzmatazz role for himself. Trouble is Jantjies is a manufactured flyhalf with very little natural talent and was never going to crack it.....with the amount of collateral damage to his team mates soon there'll be no-one left playing next to him.
Grant is very solid but not spectacular. His kicking this year has been outstanding. Cool customer Personally I prefer Goosen and Lambie.
Wonder what Card thought of that brilliant Lambie break.
Very hard on the youngster Denny. Just remember he plays the Lions running rugby style without the forwards and without the backs. That is the style they play.
I am sure he could easily play the less demanding kicking flyhalf style as he has a good boot. Dont run with the ball and you wont make mistakes. He has made some telling breaks that have lead nowhere only because there is no support. If Vermaak had been on his shoulder it would have been try time! Give the guy a break!
Its the same with Josh how good would he be in a top pack? My only complaint with Josh is he appears to lacks a bit of pace?
Ah yeah those Taute breaks in his last 2 matches have been very slow..........bwhaaaahaaaa........and there was no swerve and step involved at all. After the past 2 weeks one certainty is that Taute is proving a far better option than Jean or any other option at 13.........Taute walks it.
Please dont tell me you think Jean would beat Taute in a sprint????
Josh does not have pace, no more or less than the likes of Schalk, Alberts, Deysel, Vermeulen, Elstadt and co
Taking only speed into account it would'nt surprise me daveou. Did you see Jean hauling in the gasman Willie?
Denny stop speaking complete kak................one thing Jantjies is, is very talented. Hell the kid is a Cooper kind of player where his weakness is trying too much. He tries to create things from nothing. Its called flair - thats what makes him tick and gets him into trouble at times. How the hell is he a manufactured 10 when he has been playing there all his life? How the hell do you manufacture flair and creativity - its a natural thing, you cant coach it and Jantjies has bags of it.
Jantjies biggest issue is that he plays in a piss poor side, with pathetic service from the worst 9's I have seen in years in Cronje and Bondiseo. Put Jantjies in a side littered with the likes of Hougaard, JP, Frans, Taute and Lambie and I bet he would shine, for his flair and creativity would bring those around him alive. Sadly our makeup is so damn conservative, we embrace a limited player like Morne and frown upon the flair of a Jantjies. Elton should have been an Aussie or Frenchman, they would love him.
Well once the test season starts we wont have these enjoyable Jantjies, Strauss, Taute debates.....they'll be playing Currie Cup. And to answer your question....yep....I think Jean leaves Taute floundering in his wake.
Yes Beeno I saw that, it was nothing at all, le Roux was not gassing it all the bloke was looking around for support as he could see the cross cover coming his way - called perspective.
Hell you have to be a complete fool to think a 30 year old 105kg centre hardly renowned for his pace would beat a young fleetfooted 21 year old Taute - man oh man the joke gets better and better. While Fourie was no speedster either, there is no way in hell Jean was any faster in his day.
You guys live in a dream world. Habana was quick, Basson and Mvovo are quick......Jean was never quick, nor was Fourie
Moz there is no way in hell Jean would beat Taute and Taute will be playing test rugby soon
Yeah....just like Murray. Taute tries hard, I prefer it that way, but it's no substitute for talent.....which he doesn't have.
Its clear you have not watched Taute over the past 2 weeks have you? Even your fellow Jean supporter at 13 in Beeno has Taute at 13 for the Boks........keep beating the drum Moz, Jeans days are done. He might start the odd test in the name of experience under Meyer, but it wont last. Just like Morne, these two dont have 12 months of test rugby left in them.
Class acts like Taute, Goosen, Lambie, Frans and Hougaard will take us forward, not hasbeens and neverbeens.
As I keep telling you, Murray was my back-up to Fourie at 13, never a starter. Taute is the real deal to start at 13 for the Boks. He will be better than Fourie, who was one of our best 13's ever
Goosen, Lambie, Fransie and Hougaard have talent.....and yes they are the future. Jantjies is a cut and paste player, a poor copy of the Quaalude and Dan Carter. And Taute is the next incarnation of your previous hero Ludick.....and player with energy but limited talent.
Jean remains our best centre at 12 or 13. I'd play him at 13 with the slower but stronger Steyn at 12.
Our obviously best backline for the Poms is:
Lambie, JP, Jean, Fransie, Habana, Morne....Hougaard.
I'm not at all sure why this is a debate.
Its a debate as you are clearly wrong about Taute. Ludik started well and I have conceded he has failed this year, he has not stepped up and moved on.
Taute has just as much talent as Goosen and Lambie, but brings a physical edge to his game. As I keep saying you have clearly missed his last 2 matches for if you had seen them you would not be making it up as you are right now.
Taute had a game or two to settle at centre and in the last two weeks has emerged as our best centre, this despite being thrown in at 12 last week. He made breaks at 12, something Jean never did once against teh Cheetahs
OK Dave I recognize the symptoms.......you are past the incubation phase and are now entering full infection with this latest idea. I'll have a few shots at pointing out how whacky it all is.....but until you enter the Ludik recovery phase....you wont see a thing. And then when Taute finally drops out of all contention.....it will be Meyer's fault.
The course of this virus is well understood.
Jean missed all his tackles, very exposed. Something to consider for test level. Defence was never his strong suit, but then nothing else was either.
Moz to say Taute has no talent is a joke and anyone saying that after his past two performances needs their eyes checked. But thats the crux Moz, you are pulling a Beeno on us - you have not seen Taute in his last 2 matches - not that the talent has not been there from day one for all to see.
You are the ONLY person who does not rate Taute........but you used to push the likes of Adi and Bosman and hell you would have had Joubert back a few months back......Moz you and centres just dont go
der I have no issue with Jean challenging for the 12 spot........but to consider him for 13 at this late stage of his career is a joke. At 12 Frans and Whitehead are the frontrunners, Jean is done
...
Hell Dave I see you are trying to drum up support on the Dodo site. Dontcha know I can't see stuff on that site? Whoops, the poor buggers haven't caught up with the iPad yet....hahahaha. And speaking about the dead, we have the return of Lazarus. If you're willing to buy into the opinions of a guy who thinks Bismarck is useless, the Aristo has just returned from the dead supporting your case!
Bawahahaha. You cant stop the ipad. They dont just get that.
Moz you have lost me........in what way am I drumming up support. I asked the simple question of who they thought was faster Jean or Taute........why did I ask them? Well there are a larger bunch of knowledgeable rugby lads on that site who will give a proper answer.
On here there are a handful of lads in the know and chances are few would answer the question. I frequent both sites, but the other is far better, but thats just my opinion.
No support being drummed up, I never asked any to come voice an opinion on here on the subject. I just could not believe you could believe an old Jean would beat a young Taute, its madness
Mozart - I know you are fighting a battle against the De Villiers detractors. There is no way that De Villiers is NOT the top center in SA and he has been the one since 2005. However, during the past seven years some people on this site has always been biased against him.
Nobody should be bluffed by their comments - one should actually ask his opponents about his defence and speed, as well as his strength in breaking the line.
In any event the debate is interesting to say the least. I myself think that Taute is a rising star of the future - but he has miles to go before he can replace De Villiers. Also for the future - I would like to look at Jordaan as a potential 13.
In sumamry - whether SAFFEX and co likes it or not - my bet is that De Villiers would captain the side against England.
By the way - I think Morne is a good kicker at goal - but really not a flyhalf at all. He is a very poor ball distributor and a very bad defender. I would indeed be disappointed if he is in the team, since it would jeopardise the back line performance of the team. There are other excellent goal kickers around - but I suppose Meyer would go for the Pink Bulls from a selection perspective - and if so, we would not like the outcome.
Hi guys, i see this argument is becoming strong worded ;) Firstly, Moz has a point, Jean is currently still the incumbent, and yes Meyer will pick him, i believe he will pick him at outside centre, ntil another player stands up that can manage the backline there are a bunch of centre that are lining up for the Job, this includes Taute at this stage, problem with Jean is although he brings all the management and leadership, has the strength pace and timing he can't get the stormers backline going from the inside centre berth, so I do understand the arguments against him. This however might not play a role if he get picked at 13. That said, I don't see anyone changing the jean detractor's minds on this.
Ek dont get me wrong, I am a huge Jean fan, in fact I reckon he is possibly the best inside centre we have had.
But he is done, at age 30, his best days are over and its time to move on. There are better options in youngsters like Taute, Jordaan, JJ and JP.
Meyer sadly will go the conservative route and we will see the likes of Jean, Morne, Matfield and du Preez in the side. A young England side will beat us and Meyer will then catch a wake up and start select the best players and not experienced players for the sake of experience
At this stage Saf I will go with what Meyer calls because
1) I have a lot of respect for his rugby knowledge and wisdom.
2) He knows the players far more intimitely than I do
3) He hasn't really done anything success or failure wise to be judged or critiqued on.
So whatever he does, I am sure he will do it with the best intentions in mind, and I will firstly try and undertand why he has made that decision before i pass judgement, As I have done with Snorre and most people have not.
Yes I agree jean is a bit old, but you cannot just have young guys. And jean might be the only experience we have left in the backline...... well apart from Habs.
We will have more than enough experience with the likes of Habana, Frans, JP, Beast, Bismark, Jannie, Bekker, Brussouw and Spies on board. Selecting players for the sake of experience is short sighted and far too conservative
again as raised before, noene of the players you have mentioned have experience running the backline. So in until someone steps up running defensive structures or organising behind the advantage line i don't see him not playing.
