Keep the faith and get some perspective here please

There seems to be little appreciation as to what is potting here. I hope this arrticle helps a little.

I will expand on it as well to explain matters to the oaks.

RYAN VREDE of keo writes that the Springboks’ performance in Mendoza was woeful but it is premature to make absolute judgments about Heyneke Meyer’s aptitude.

A draw, and the manner thereof, against Argentina was inexcusable. Meyer said as much in his post-match assessment.

It would be remiss not to credit Argentina for their industry, intensity and tactical appreciation. They were outstanding when viewed in the context of their opponents and the infancy of their Rugby Championship involvement. (Remeber that these guys have beaten France at home and gave the abs a huge fright as well- they were pumped for this one and our guys were not) But this was one the Springboks botched as opposed to one they were completely overwhelmed in. They were awful, with their attacking game in particular failing to inspire.

However, the emotion-fuelled predictions of peril that soared after the final whistle and that persist are premature and unfounded. It is understandable in some ways. The level of disappointment is influenced by the level of expectation. The result, which Meyer agreed felt like a defeat, wasn’t inconceivable, but the widely held expectation was for a comfortable Springboks win. Still, it is absurd to see that result and the quality of the performance as indicative of a doomed road ahead under Meyer.

The coach has never explicitly asked for time to settle into his role, for his charges to grasp his philosophies and methods or for him to address physical, technical and mental shortcomings of individuals. But to expect him to have immediate success is unreasonable, particularly given the limited preparation time he has had with the squad, the youthfulness of his group and injuries to key and experienced players (and the unavailability of talented rookies).(Please note this oaks and get a more realitic Beeno type approach!)

With regards to the latter, the perspective here is that the absence of JP Pietersen, Bismarck du Plessis and Schalk Burger is significant (You could add Duane Vermueln, Goosen and Coenie Ooshuizen and the ommision of WP Nel and Jordaan as well). The trio are among the best in their positions in world rugby and have over 150 Test caps between them. I’ve lamented Pierre Spies’ inability to impose himself consistently on the Test stage, but he is a player I believed would thrive with his mentor at the helm, and one with a half century of caps.

Coenie Oosthuizen (Ah hoped he would mention Coenie!) was an integral part of Meyer’s plan before he was injured, as was Ryan Kankowski before he opted to continue his career in Japan. Both are seasoned players and possess the ability to make telling impacts off the wood. Furthermore, Johann Goosen and Duane Vermuelen’s injuries denied Meyer their services (both would have had substantial game time) and strike one as having the technical and mental constitution to have made the transition to Test rugby relatively comfortably.(Hmmm Ryan you go up in my estimation!!!!  Well done even if its stating the obvious))

Meyer’s preferred scrumhalf, Fourie du Preez, was committed to Suntory Goliath in Japan. Du Preez is likely to return for the year-end tour (should a renegotiation of his contract work out as planned), but for now Meyer has a void not yet adequately filled in his absence. (No all you need to do is play a natural scrumhalf like Pienaar or Vermaak - but maybe taking a longer term view playing Hougaard has to be persevered with)). I’m not an apologist for Meyer, but there needs to be perspective on the Springboks’ future under him. It is not bleak. He is different from Peter de Villiers, who was technically and tactically inept and largely squandered the player riches at his disposal during his tenure.

But how long is long enough before we can make more legitimate conclusions about him and his methods? I would say by the end of the 2013 Rugby Championship, when he would have had more than enough time to work with the players he wants, not those he was forced to turn to through circumstance (Agree)

I note with some alalrm that Rassie was nowherer to be seen?

many valid points with the article, but u cant change facts either and meyer coached the Boks to their worst result ever in their history against the pumas and while the Boks didnt have all the players that meyer might have wanted, he still had more then enough to put the likes of the pumas away, WAAAAY more then enough.


and what in the world are u talking about the pumas gave the All Blacks a huge fright??? we beat them 33-10 last year in the quater finals and the last time we played them before that was in 2006 where while it was close still won 25-19 with an All Blacks team missing many of its frontline players, McCaw, mills, chris jack, rokocoko, a mauger, carl hayman, bryon kellher and im sure a few more. that team which still won was missing a lot more players then this Boks team who that didnt win, so a little perspective with this gave the ABs a HUGE FRIGHT comment, LMAO, :P

snasper and sharkbok are predictably bleating away about Morne. They would have done well to harken unto the wise words of Nick Mallet who is doing an excellent job as a commentator and who has the courage to acrtually say something and be critical.

Mallet said that Dan Carter wou ldahve flopped playing for the Boks. He noted that Carter was the decision maker for the abs but that Morne was not. Morne should be calling for the ball and at other times telling the forwards to drive it up etc. Also that other players forwards and backs should position themselves to take passes. We just go to ground rather than looking for somebody to pass to. This allows your opponents more time to regather their forces. I have lamented this aspect with De Jong and Kirchner before but they are not the only ones.

Morne kicked far too many up and unders and yet is this his idea or Meyers? We ahve seen the bullerunning the ball very well. They need to see that feeding the poosition ball is not going to cut it.

This team was not too bad on paper but were not fired up. It is however not our best team and some things need to be realised.|

Starting bin the front row. The romance with Beast must end. He is a pretty passive player and any ideas of him being a rugby beast must be shelved. Whilst he and Jannie do reasonably well in the scrum - holding their own - they are weak when it comes to their work rate outside the scrum and very importantly their ability to dirve the ball up. Props have the ideal build to do this but these two can hardly make a meter! When Etzebeth drove the ball up over the advantage line the bnefits were obvious. Now Coenie and WP Nel can do this and provided their scrumming is up to it they would be much better bets as they are far superior outside the scrum, Bissie is a huge loss as he adds a lot of grunt to the pack. In his absence the best we can do is Liebenberg. He scrums well and has an impact as a tight forward.

I am not convinced we can do better than Etzebeth and Bekker. Although if Bakkies were fit and on form he and Etzebeth would be my locks.

Vermulen unfortunately is not ready yet but maybe for the home matches. Burger is sorely missed and one wishes ou snapter would stop his mindless bleatings about him. So in my book we havean entire front row missing, and we have two loose forwards missing 5 of the 8 against the argies would not be there.

This casual allowing of WP Nel to go overseas is very short sighted.

In the short term Hougaard is not the answer as when either Vermaak for the Bulls or Pienaar for the Boks comes on things get better. However, Meyer could yet make a scrummie off him? Perhaps Hougaard should continue at scrumhalf for the bulls and play off the bench for the Boks covering scrummie and wing. We need JP back on the wing as Movov is so easily disposessed. He simply is not physical enough. Pity as he is a nice runner.

We will have to continue with Morne until Goosen gets going. Lambie should play 15 against Oz.

Jean was the best Bok back on the field but Frans is causing concern. I noted befoe the world cup he looked slack. However at the world cup he looked really good. Is his mind right - is he motivated. We shall soon see.

Given the squad he has Meyer should only change the hooker - Liebenberg comes in,  Lambie at fullback. and JJ on the wing. The other call is to continue with Hogaard. If Pienaar plays Hougaard fights it out with JJ or a spot on the wing. I like Hougaard as a wing.

Expect  a better showing against Oz.

Also expect the Argies to give Oz and abs something to think about at home. Argiis are not too shabby.

What a pity Meyer didnt get in a world class backline coach!!  Meyer you have till the end of 2013 to get it right dont waste a minute.

well well well old beeno stil standing by your points to the end. i have to give you your due. going down swining arent we

lets be fair and honest and take everything into consideration. the boks loss was due to poor tactics and player selection. pumas offered nothing different that the likes of the aussies or the AB will offer the boks. they played up tempo and your fat boys that you are the mindless crew of WP fanboys have been calling for (yes i can only recall your obsession with size and power) got runned of there feet. the pumas intensity and tempo was not nearly as high as what the AB and aussies can play so for you going on about how they pumas will shock the ab is nothing short of typical personal ego disaster management...

the current playing system is flawed. i have called this weeks ago  when people were ranting and raving about morne and the so called power pack. guess were are we at the moment. a draw against a no name team.

when the final whistle blew the words of moz rang in my head.....meyers years will lead to nothing. a out of date game plan inforced by players that are not skill full and allowed to play in there own zone and skill set.

blantant coaching errors and poor attention to detail is costing us badly. the forwards got matched by much more skill full smaller players and then the "powerfull pack myth" got debunked.

THE ELV's has changed the game change the pattern or be willing to fight with the likes of the pumas for the wooden spoon.

there is nothing wrong with players at his pisposal. the players are the best even though there is a lot of injuries the depth for a change in SA is great but if you approach a game with rubbish medievil tactics then dont expect to yield the desired results.

the likes of franna steyn that just a few weeks ago looked mighty for the sharks under there progessive dynamic playing pattern looks like a shady husk under this current game plan so that just speaks volumes of the style that is being played is not being bought into by the players. runnning backs are being forced to be battering rams.

on old turnstyle steyn i called this last week that as soon as the forwards get matched up front then morne just crumbles into nothingness. case and point saterday night.

its not doom and gloom but meyer needs to make big changes in his playing method and game pattern. the pumas as just a very small taste of whats to come if there is not a major overhaul in tactics. i dont buy into the poor points being made of so called injuries. the balance of the players being selected are wrong point full stop.

GHD potgieter and co are not the way to go forward. pickup the tempo of the game beter techinque at it he breakdown with a smaller fetcher will and can change things around drasticly for us. the change needs to happen sooner rather than later i fear because the knives are being sharpend already it seems

Beeno

You cannot argue against facts and even though I agree with you about some deficiencies in forward play - the real culpruts remain the fact that what is really the case here is a 10 man game plan.   What plan is a key to the play of Hougaard and Morne Steyn?   Who is really responsible for the box kick or high kick and charge strategy?   Are the players involved instructed to use that strategy or not?

Basically the qestion is - why is the Springbok back line malfunctioning?   In that case - we have to deal here with individual performances of back line players.   This start with the scrummie and goes all the way back to the full back.  

I believe that the problem starts with Hougaard.   There is no way that his slow and inaccurate service to the backline (receiving players cannot run onto the ball and must stand still before they get the ball)  is NOT a problem.   His kicking game is also a cause for serious concern - the kicks on Saturday was not charged down like happened previously and there were always covering players to receive the balls kicked by him.   In essence the result was that backline play was NOT possible with him as scrummy and his main contribution through kicking was handing over possession of the ball to the Pumas.   Your comments about him being coached to become an effective scrummy and that it yet may happen is really problematic.   If that is to happen it may be necessary to cultivate and develop him on provincial level - to try and do that in a test environment is just not acceptable.   REMEMBER THE MAIN FUNCTION OF A SCRUMMIE IS TO EFFECTIVELY PASS THE BALL TO THE FLYHALF AND THAT IS JUST NOT HAPPENING AT PRESENT.   I have not - despite the coaching - noticed a marked improvement in Hougaard scrummy performance this year - so is that an issue that could effectively be addressed through coaching?   What is evident that whenever Hougaard is replaced by Pienaar the backline functioining improves.    The role of Hougaard in a malfunctioing back line environment is to my mind clear.   In essence I believe that we have a case here of throwing a good wing to the dogs by playing him at scrumhalf.

Then we have the case of Morne Steyn.    From his Under 21 days Morne was always developed by the Bulls to kick strategically.    Morne never has been an efficieint link with the backline.   That has become evident over the years - his natural inclination is to kick first and foremost and not to pass the ball to his backline.   That is why he would even kick when there is a noticeable overlap that should be utilized.   This approach was drilled into him when he was playing for the Bulls.   Insofar as potential linkage is concerned - he stands way to far behind the advantage line to be an effective passing flyhalf and he receives the ball in a standing position and then start running with it.   In such an eventuality the only alternative the recipient of the ball has is to crash-ball.    We have seen it repeatedly this year in the case of both Olivier and Francois Steyn.    I cannot remember one single backline move of the Springboks this year - which was really destructive.    If Morne is not a real linking flyhalf - his value must be elsewhere and that is in his kicking game.   That has had a major impact on games played this year and varied constantly.   His goalkicking in the first two tests against the POMS were not really that effective and in the third test he flopped badly.  On average he kicked successfully at goal 56% of the time - a really poor performance.   Meyer promised coaching and in the test in Cape Town he was 100% accurate - in the second test it was back to 60%.   What made the difference?   In the first test Morne was not under any pressure to kick accurately - in the second test both the penalties he missed was pressure kicks and he missed both.   The one was an easy kick - the other slightly less so.   Be is as it may - his goal kicking was under par.   The other component of his game was strategic kicking and relieving kicking.   In both cases he failed and gaining of territory was minimal and we often loss territory because of ineffective kicking.   Can we blame Morne for the situation - since we do not know what instructions he had and secondly he got poor balls from his scrummy?   I believe that Mallett may perhaps be right as to the blaming for the deficient backline performance - but can he be coached into becoming an effective linking flyhalf?  I have my doubts - but what is certain is that any flyhallf cannot function effectively in the situation he was in on Saturday.   Mallett said Carter would not have been able to function in such and environment and that is a fact of life.  However, Morne was never really an effective link player and that is the end of the story.

The next player to be analyzed is Francois Steyn as number 12.   Forget about his past image and start looking at the present situation.   In the four tests he played in this year he contributed nothing of note as a linking back line player.   He crashballed 80% of the time he received a ball - and not very effectively at that.   He was 100%  predictable and when he ran - it was slow and ineffective.   There were no instances where he drew defenders to him and in a tackle situation effectively off-loaded the ball.   His p[assing game was slow and predictable.   There are two things in backline play - those are the functions of the flyhalf and inside center.   They must try and create SPACE for outside players.   As dealt with in the case of Morne - his passing game is ineffective and it is even more so in the case of Francois Steyn.    To be quite frank an inside center is supposed to breach the opposiition backline and off load the ball effectively to create space for the outside players.   I cannot remember one instance where it happened in the four tests Fancois Steyn played in.    Insofar as performance is concerned his defence was OK - his attacking play non-existent.   His kicking was farcical to say the least.   At goal he has had a 15% success rate and  his releiving and tactical kicking was non-existent and totally ineffective.    Taking into account his present performance level - is he still the answer at 12?   I believe that unledss there is an 80% improvement in his performances he should be sent back to the Sharks and not coninue at 12.  Should give him one or two more opportunities to prove that he can still play as an effective 12 - nothing more.

De Villiers always go the ball under bad circumstances - despite that he tried variation of the game by skip passes and efforts to breach the line.   He had some success with that territory wise - but his passes almost all ended up with Kirchner who never thought of passing the ball and crashballed.   In two cases De Villiers lost the ball in the process either by knocking it on or by handing over the ball to the opposition after being tackled.   he also gave away a penalty in the process.   One has to give De Villiers some credit - he at least tried something - even though the efforts were ineffective.   That whilst the inside backs tried nothing and achieved nothing.

Wings would never function appropurately under such conditions and they really showed nothing through effective backline play.   They really had no opportunity to perform.

Kirchner tried to impress as a running full back - but his only achievement was negative - whenever he received the ball in a backline move he was inside of the wing and crashballed - he never thought of passing - and the movements died.   On the whole he is not acceptable on international level - his positional play is questionable and he is poor under high balls when put under pressure - coupled to questionalble defence -  and should never be  in the team - end of story.

THE QUESTION IS WHAT CAN BE DONE ABOUT THIS MESS?   I would do the following :-

*   Play Pienaar as scrummie and move Hougaard to the wing.   Put Vermaak on the bench - together with Goosen and potentially a player like Jordaan as a benchplayer that could cover both the center and wing positions.

*   Keep Morne as 10 - but with strict instructions as to effective link backline play  .  If he fails replace him during the game with Goosen.

*   Give Francois Steyn ONE more oportunity to show that he deserves selection as a 12.   If he fails again in the  test replace him in the second half - move De Villiers to 12 and give Jordaan a chance at 13.   No further chances after that test.

*   Keep De Villiers at 13 

*  Play Habana and Hougaard at wing until Pietersen returns.

*   Replace Kirsnher with Lambie

Those changes can instill some fire into a 'dead" backline.       

i agree with you on all the points but the issue in regards to franna i doubnt agree with you. he is problem of the tactics that is being coached by meyer and co. not his fault that he coaches wants to use him in his current role. he is just doing what he is told. he has a complete skill set in regards to passing and creating space but meyer is not using it. he has no confidence in playing more dynamicly.

JDV is 10 times worse than franna. its well documented to be fair the whole team was dosile

Carpetmuncher

My problem is that I was always a great admirer of Francois Steyn - he has all the physical abilities to perform and he was very good before he went to play in France.   Whilst playing there I was watching some games he played in - and he was nothing special.   He played very much in the style he played in the past four tests - with very little or no spark at all.   If he did anything positive for his French club - his contract with them would have been renewed - the fact that it was not proves my comments about his very average performances in France.

Francois has a massive reputation in SA based on past performances - but the question that arose from his contributions in the past four tests remains.   He played very much like he did in France - a very unimaginitive and largely ineffeective game style of play.

In view if the French scenario I do not entirely agree with you about the impact of the perceived Meyer game plan - Francois could still show some spark despite that henious game plan - but he does not.   I would give him further opportunities - but if he continue to play like he did in France and in the four recent tests - I do not think he should remain in the team.

I am a firm believer that De Villiers should also be replaced - but it is a fact that De Villiers played better in the four tests than Steyn did.   That does not count for much - Steyn tried nothing - De Villiers marginally more.   The one was bad - the other one poor.    

Sorry - dupliccation.    

I made a point about predictabliity, up and unders etc - all to do with gameplan and yet ou mucher goes on about me not appreciating a change in plan is needed. Hahahahhahaha

Mike your solutions are very similar to mine if you cared to take  a closer look. I have wanted Jordaan in the mix. I also suggested Pienaar as scrummie and Hougaard on the wing. Also a fan of Goosen and believe he should start off the bench. I have also noted the problems with Frans - as early as pre world cup. However he showed at the WC he could play. He needs to be fired up. He is coasting.

As for my power pack being debunked I suppose we would have been better off with Kolisi and Daniels!! With Burden at hooker. Bwahahahahahahaha how daft do you get these wee guys would have been smashed.

Fact is this lot are not a power pack. I noted that only three of these guys would be in my power pack. Hahahahahahhaha ou muncher stumped again.

SusSUE you guys got  a big fright in 2006 . Boks had ar least as many players out on Saturday as you in 2006 and also Argies better now and very motivated. Get real. Man the Argies played out of their skins and for very obviou reasons. We had an off day. Our problems I have accurately documented.

Lets also see how the Argies go at home against Oz and NZ.

Next point of focus is to beat Oz. Will the real Boks please stand up. It will be interesting to see if Meyer changes his squad and tactics.

the pumas are not up the standard of the wallies nor the ab yet that being said saterday's intensity and game plan was not quite perfect but was atleast effective against your "power pack".....

having 3 big ball carriers in your loose trio is a major major flaw and is very very easy to snuff out and counter attack with. many pro coaches to whom i have spoken to has raised this area as a major flaw in teh dynamics and mentaility for SA's teams. that to a certain extend has erroded over the years but there is still a few neantherthal coaches still left in the sa system that has not changed there ways.

daniels to his credit is not a fecther but brussouw is. i never said burben and co can do better so dont try to promote your own little narrow minded mindset with the slight mask of provicialism. the game pattern is rubbish. then the game got to quick the big forwards were founded out. the areas of concern was the breakdown and it was left unattended the next week. that is not the players faulty but the coaching staff's fault

what a personal worry is for me is your inablity to see the real problem but rather like a good media liason you beeno are easy to point out that if the right players were not there but you fail to see the blantant problem areas to the overall direction that the team is being led to.

i am really happy that this has happend. this will be a wakeup call that we need to change the rubbish kicking game.

forward obessed power appoarch will not make us the best. the die hards like you beeno will argue this until the day we lose every major game. but not playing a breakdown specialist like brussouw and having different tactics and play a more dynamic high ball possesion up tempo skill game will cost us many a game.

THE GAME HAS CHANGED UNDER THE NEW ELV'S THE TACTICS AND PLAYER SELECTION SHOULD REFLECT THIS

What you fail to understand is you need both power and skills muncher - until you grasp that you will continue to flounder.
I cant say how many time I have now said I think our predicability and other facits of play need changeing. Yet all you bleat on about is a power pack. My power pack has both has skills and power. Again I say who is not up to it my power pack:

Coenie, Bissie, WP Nel (Mobil edriving front row)

Etzebeth, Bekker (Still the best wehave)

Burger (has to be fit etc) Vermuelen, and Alberts 9Burger on from i sa must he ha snever been overwhelmed by anybody)

On the bench Beast, Liebenberg, Elstadt and Coetzee.

I have asked for a crit of this pack a number of times and have heard zip. 

As for Brussouw I would like to see him making an impact at Super 15 level before considering him.  The change of rules didnt actually suit him - but I am always open to changeing my opinion when a player has guts and heart like he does.

what you fail to understand beenkop is that the big pack will get outrun....FACT

i am not saying pick a pack of light weights but certain players compliment other players in terms of there roles. having burger vermeulen and albets your picking 2 players that are the same. offer nothing interms of the breakdown abilty not do they offer anthing different in terms of there abiltys. coenie and wp nel are good props. much shorter mobile props there i do agree but what happend on saterday is not jannie and beasts fault. the pumas were up for it. the wallies and ab will do pretty much the same if not more. bekker  did not pitch up on saterday. made the workload worse for the rest of the tight 5.

brussouw skills set is far better than burger and co. not only in the breakdown area but in general play. he offers something different not the same old ball carrier rubbish. your lose trio will not cope with up tempo quick game. i will bet you that but you cant seem to understand that and we can rant and rave here all day long but not making your breakdown ball 1st priorty is a fatal fatal mistake. a proper fecther frees up the ball carriers from donkey work and allows the team steady ball supply. that being said his general play is light years ahead of burger and co and he is use to a high intensity up tempo game.

you dont have to believe me but mark my words this pumas game was nothing compared to the type of rugby that we are facing. the wallies and ab's main area of attack is the ruck so good luck with your approach of big boys running into just as big forwards. lets see how that will pan out for you.

let me rather ask this question for u beeno

do you think having 3 players in your lose trio that are basicly the same types of players can be enough to ensure that the boks can secure more than 90 % of there ruck ball and have enough momentum and decent service of hougaard and morne steyn to use ???

do you think they compliment each others strong points and compete against other teams lose forwards both in general play and more importnantly the crucial breakdown area ???

So how is that faith and perspective now ?

Loved every minute of that utterly useless performance, and let me just say "I told you so"

I saw this crap happening when he first selected his squad and so many of you were giving it all that.

Well now you see that we are in desperate need of help and guidance. 

@gareth dont worry beeno is nothing short of a hopeless romantic. there was nothing to write home about the past few games. the areas that are being laid bare are the same problems that was in the english series but instead of sorting it out they have just gone backwords.

Sorry muncher but until my power pack is picked nothing is proved. The current front row i snot our best in my view and neither is our lose trio.

Please get the message.

Also stop dodging my challenge. Tell me who in my pack is not Bok material.

As for Garethed - who said expect a tough year in 2012. Who said 2013 should see an improvement with 2014 being delivery year. Meyer deserves a full go. 

What I do note re the Argies is that nobody is giving them much credit. Lets see how Oz goes in Argentina. Abs will most likely beat argies via their backline.

We have a non functioning backline at the moment. Meyer has to pull that right. Our pack, even though not our best, was reasonable against Argentina and should be fine against Oz. If we lose against Oz it will not likely be because of our forwards. It will be because of our game plan and our backline stuttering along.

Many here are casgating Potgieter but Planet Rugby gave him a good rating.  Our predictable game plan is our biggest impediment followed by selection problems - mostly as a result of injuries. 

Should we beat Oz the Meyer bashers will have a lot of egg landing. I think I am the only person believing we can beat Oz!  To me the pessimism is too profound and suggests the prozac is not working! Hahahhahahahaha

your so full of it really beeno

no wonder you and no cups coetzee go for long strides on beach here in cape town. i thought i saw you 2 building sand castles the other day. you should try the ice cream shop there in blouberg...i go there every sunday it might score you some browny points with old no cups

well if your statements are true which i know might have some sense to it....yes beeno you average around one descent post per week. then 2014 might a decent year....but do you really think SARU and the rugby pundits will settle for this penile limp dosile 1970's. (ooops sorry we used to run the ball in those years the medievil era) game pattern
 

do you think HM will even have a job in 2014 by then if we continue on his lack for the better word technically rubbish playing pattern ???

the general rugby public is not stupid and they know what they want and have a pretty good idea what does not work nor what is effective. if your a no cups coetzee long lost love child this type of play will make you feel right at home

Should we beat Oz... Are you kidding me?

If we keep these shitty Bulls players and keep playing this old style of rugby, we wont even get a bonus point against Aus. If we do I will be suprised at how bad Aus rugby is, I will not for one second believe HM has done the right thing.