Lowest and highest rated Boks ex 365

15 Zane Kirchner:
Not a great game for the fullback, who had a few aimless kicks and was left for dead by Chris Ashton in one attack. No surprise that the shepherd's crook came out at half-time to keep Kirchner on the sidelines.
4/10


13 Jean de Villiers (captain):
The new skipper was outstanding and with a gash under his eye only a brave man would have suggested he go off. A brilliant try with great determination to get over the line and some genuine speed to burn Chris Ashton down the touchline. He also kept a close watch of the dangerous Manu Tuilagi and didn't allow him to break the advantage line.
9/10

11 Bryan Habana:
A fantastic break early on and he had  couple weaving runs past defenders to worry the English defenders. Some brilliant chasing of high kicks to pile the pressure on and a good defensive effort as well.
9/10

Obviously Hasbeen and Der Aristo didn't see some of this stuff. But I hope the penny finally drops. Kirchner is no international fullback. And Jean and Bryan are still among the games's elite.

I would like, first of all, a retraction from all the bleaters regarding a certain Bismarck and Habana. Yes, who was it who said Habana wasn't done? Yes, it was I. Who was it to who continually try to educate you all on the shortcomings of Bismarck?

As for Jean, there is a glaring error in the report: "and didn't allow him to break the advantage line"...

Is that so? Who was that who Manu thumped to the ground and continued past? The one whom Fransie had to mop up after several times? A 9? Grossly overrated. He ran in a simple try. At best a 7, no more or less. Was not as impactful as Frans who deserves a 9 much more.

Kirchner deserved a 7. He made a few very good breaks despite England dominating us. Lambie was scarcely any better. Both around a 7.
 

Oh and the stats are interesting. Spies made exactly one tackle....is that an all time low for a loose forward in a test match?

Stats? What of stats? At least that's what I am told. Then again, I never ever rated Spies as our best 8; My call has been for Burger to be trialled at 8, so you are swatting at thin air on this one. In much the same manner as your defence of Adi - that one about the fake step was very amusing, I did sprout forth a chuckle upon reading it. Then lengths some people will go to create an impression. At least you didn't fabricate an entire incident like Mike has done several times though, I credit you that.

Kirchner 3 runs, 19 metres one defender beaten. He made one tackle and missed one....and was hooked by his coach for good reason.

Jean missed Tui once, but ran through him once as well. He made 55 metres in 4 carries including one clean break. He made 5 tackles and missed one.

Fransie by contrast made 7 metres in 6 carries, and no clean breaks. He also missed a tackle while making 7.

But as so many failed to recognize when Jean was at 12....it's damn hard to penetrate that channel. Still Jean was comfortably more "impactful " than Fransie. 55 metres trumps 7.

Aristo this may come as a surprise, but when I mentioned Spies I wasn't even thinking about you. Frankly I can't recall you as a Spies man....Dave, for sure.

Your stats are incorrect. In a single carry alone Frans carried three defenders a good 5m in the first half towards England's 22. He did that a few times. Frans was a big step up from Jean.

I also remember Bismarck's miss tackle that really should have been an England try. He was blasted through just as he has been throughout the S15.

Kirchner beat two defenders in one run back in the first half.
 

Video reference supersedes stats. I will wait to download the game later on and review it.

Mozart, rather than getting stats from a shit sports website watch the fucking game. F Steyn played brilliantly when defending, Aristokrats right that Fransie mopped up after Jean when he got bounced by Manu but that was the only time Jean failed to tackle Manu.

Both Centres for us played well and should be kept where they are. Kirchner needs to swap with Lambie, maybe Hougaard should swap with Ruan and then take JP's place at left wing. Oh and Strauss should take Bissies spot.

One thing, we NEED Brussouw.

I posted the following at 19.26 "We need Brussouw and Bekker. Pienaar might be the better choice at scrumhalf. Lambie needs to start, and Hougaard might be better on the wing. I'd say Heineke has a lot of thinking ahead of him."

Why dontcha read a few postings before assuming you have all the answers you foul mouthed jerk

You shouldn't rely on people to read your other posts when putting up an argument. I don't care what you said before in a different post, I am dissagreeing with you towards what you said about F Steyn.

Read it again....all I said was Jean was more impactful than Steyn. Which he was statistically and observationally accurate. Fransie had a good game, he made some powerful tackles and carried the ball up well. He made no breaks. He also wasted a few chances by carrying the ball when the pass was a better option, an old failing. So I  think Jean was better on the day, supported by every informed view I read. 

Jean had several good busts and contained the Pom danger man very well. The time he missed him was in static play where Tui changed direction right into Jean who clearly  was off balance. Countering that Jean ran right over Tui in the first half....he outgained him handily....gaining 55 metres in 4 carries to 27 metres for Tui in 11 carries. A meagre average of 2.5 metres per carry. He out tackled him as well.

So my opinion is informed  I am actually encouraged by this pairing which I believe will be our best for a long time.....try to be a bit more civil next time. 

..ok..another question from sitting bull...how come morne steyn missing all the kicks when frans steyn there to kick them over for yarpie tribe...

Bull I thought all you chaps know.....Morne pots them up to 50 metres. Beyond that Fransie pots them especially when playing against teams that have a proven propensity to choke when the unexpected happens.

...sounds abit potty to sitting bull, Frans Steyne can't kick goals unless they're over halfway haha...winning logic that...

You do realise I support Jean at 13 and F Steyn at 12...

You're stupid, one comment you're clearly bashing F Steyn and the next you're praising him... Make up your mind!

No I'm seeing shades of grey, an acuity which apparently confuses you.

Shades of grey? An interestng point, your shelter when the going gets tough; create ambiguity to try and avoid an unpleasant conclusion.

What unpleasant conclusion go ahead spit it out.

Shezzam perhaps this rating from Planet Rugby will help you....but I'm not holding my brearth:

"

13 Jean de Villiers: Out-Tuilagi'd Manu Tuilagi on occasion, such was De Villiers' whole-hearted commitment. He was the only Springbok to echo their coach's intensity in the first-half, and thoroughly deserved to grab their second try after a massive game in which he led from the front. 8/10.

12 Frans Steyn: Provided the physicality that Meyer clearly felt he needed in the backline, performing the duty of full-time battering ram. It was predictable, but he generally got over the advantage line to keep the momentum going and have a bruising effect on the English defence. 6/10.

Jean was mostly anonymous throughout the first half. The most active and proructive players were Hougaard and Alberts. Jean? A long way off that. So far, I rate him a 6. Manu certainly had the better of Jean.

Mozart

I obviously rubbed some people up the wrong way.    I felt that Kirchner never really joined the back line and made an impression.    He tried to run from full back once and got tackled leading to a penalty,   I think that his kicks were too far and not really effective.    I could really not say that he had an acceptable game - hence my comment that he really does not deserve more than 4 out of 10.

The issue of Habana, Steyn and De Villiers have been dealt with adequately.   I really tried to be objective and gave De Villiers 7 out of 10 - because of one missed tackle. otherwise he could have been 8.   Steyn was very average on attack and good in defence - 6 seems a fair score.    Habana in fact was outstanding - when he went off for a short while Olivier came on and showed zero.

Now lets get to Pietersen.  I said before the game that Pietersen is now so slow he can never be an effective wing.    He was slow in following up kicks and did nothing in respect of defence as well.   He is to my mind a prime candidate for replacement.

Steyn yesterday tried to play a different game - but he showed one thing.  He was slightly better on defence than he used to be.   However, this time around he did not stand so far back that he could not pass (some improvement on Super 15 form). but he still suffered from his old disease - namely aimless and ineffective kicking.    His other negative yesterday was missing the conversions.    I find it difficult to give him more than 4 points out of 10 as a result.

Of Hougaard I said before the game that it depends on which Hougaard turns up to play.  Unfortunately it was the wrong one who turned up yesterday.   People complain abpout the forwards not protecting the ball - but one would expect the scrummie to get the ball and pass it quickly - not stand around looking and waiting for something to happen and allow for the POM players to try and force a change.   That happened a couple of times.   The other times the forwards formed a line -  whilst th ball was taken back slowly for Hougarrd to pick up and tried to kick - one such kick was despite the queque charged down.   Where did thst slow- slow-slow technique developed.    Looking at the bugger-up made by Griesel for the Junior Boks it must be from the Bulls - but it DOES NOT WORK.

If I was in Meyer's position there are three changes I would make to the backline.   Kirchner and Pietersen to be dropped from the team and not even be played from the bench.   If adventurous I would replace Pietersen with Basson or Hougaard on the wing and play for th time being Lambie at full back.    Pienaar's service was twice as fast as the one of Hougaard - so he could come in as scrummie.   I am afraid we are stuck with Morne for the present series - but yesterday he was not top class - definitely not at kicking at the posts and that aimless kicking was not indicative that he can move up in the ratings as a flyhalf.

 Amongst the forwards I was not impressed at all with the performance of Spies.   The fact is that Alberts played a huge game - and for a newbie Coetzee was very good.    Problem was those two had to do the work that was supposed to be done by Spies.   I was impressed with the line out work of Etzebeth - as well as other aspects of his game - but slightly less so by Kruger.   As a replacement Van der Merwe showed zero.   Coenie was a vast improvement as a scrummager - buit Strauss  showed inexperience when he throwed in that ball that let to the POM try.    

As to the forwards I would replace Spies as he was totally ineffective - and play Coetzee at 8.   However, we are indeed not really in a position to do that in this series - because of all the injuries and the composition of the 32 players available for team selection.   

I believe that come the TN - the squad would look somewhat different to the present one.    I think that the squad would include Pietersen at full back to replace the totally ineffective Kirchner,  Basson at wing to replace the useless slow card horse Pietersen,  I am at a loss as to Hougaard - maybe Meyer could knock some sense into that brain box of his.    Morne Steyn to stay - but i suspect that Goosen will be replacing him sooner rather than later.       

Amongst the fowards I think Spies should go - and the loosies will probably come from Vermeulen, Burger, Alberts, Coetzee and Kolisi.   The props is another issue.   I still think that Oosthuizen and Malherbe should be in the mix.   Mind you i think Meyer has an eye towards the future - when h included Oosthuizen and Malherbe in the group.  Come scrum time it would soon become evident whether Oosthuizen and Malherbe are not the better scrummagers.

Interesting times - but on Saturday's display I believe that the following players could be in trouble as to future selection:-

   Kirchner, Pietersen, Morne (but only in the longer term) and Hougaard as scrummie (?), and Spies.

I also believe that De Villiers will be captain for the next year or so.   He will have to be replaced to make way for a younger player long before the next WC though.