He had a good game against the Kings, but he made three very bad mistakes. I did a write up of that game. So, it was his best game of the year, but still not enough to convince me of him being a Bok squad option. At the time, I thought he'd better Kolisi, now I don't think so. He was injured after the Kings game anyway. He is too brittle, which rings us to ball carrying. It isn't very good. When he did play for the Boks in 2014 he added nothing as a fetcher and failed to be a dependable ball carrier in Albert's absence. What Louw did against the All Blacks surpassed what Coetzee could produce.
Last week Coetzee equaled the most turnovers record...
Rooinek
You cannot believe the tripe Mozart and AO - with all his other user names = come up with. They attack Du Toit endlessly and praised Louw - the serial flop in tests this year - endlessly as well.
Attack Steph endlessly? Where and when? How much more can I realistically rate a player when I give them an 8.5.
Here's the truth of the matter, you cannot accept any objective criticism of Steph because you hero worship him. Already labelled as "best Bok of all time" after the Wallaby test in SA. My criticism was his defence around the fringes which I proved with video evidence. Evidence you hid from.
As for Louw? Nobody excused the two poor tests he did produce. There's the difference, a balanced perspective. I openly conceded over a month ago that he'd have a hard time getting back into the team, that he'd need a big game. He did have a big game against New Zealand.
Have you figured out the shape of attacks in modern rugby?
That's going to give me a lot of laughs for years to come. Schalk playing flyhalf is going to be a very close second. There's always the tactically aimless kicks that somehow fall under ball-in-hand rugby. That despite the fact that Coetzee's Boks played more ball-in-hand by far.
So many contradictions.
Eben outplayed Steph in the first Puma test and a couple more, such as the Brisbane test. Eben is the real engine of the team. Steph has been good, but he has committed many errors. His defence has ranged from very good to sloppy. His ball carrying, which has been from the flyhalf position according to Lügnerin, is his strongest attribute. He is much more consistent on attack.
AO
Your so-called objective assessments are nothing more tan thinly disguised attacks on the player. There are two words you cannot even consider as applicable in yur case and the one is "objective" and the other one is "assessments" Both are over-ridden by prejudice - so how can you ever make any proper performance assessments?
You have a serious problem - you pay lip service if one of your favourites flop - the next day you are back fighting for his retention in the team. What a joke you are.
Over committing to a read, rushing out the line and having a runner put into your channel is not an example of successful defence. Doing it several times a game would generally be considered a tendency. Being flat out beaten inside our 22 for a gain of 2 metres is another unsuccessful example of defence.
There's nothing veiled about my statements. It's all quite to the point. An attack on a player would be something more in line with your personal attacks on several players, such as Cuntfield and Fat Fransie, or the de Jongh who should have been discarded at birth. I have never and will never make any such statement about a player. Whether I love or hate a player is irrelevant to the points I make. You can't prove either way how I feel about the person behind the player, you never inquire to know in the first place.
As for "my favourites". Who are my "favourites"?
Sure the attack on Du Toit and the high praise of Louw has an impact on where Coetzee could play, To the delight of Mozart Coetzee was injured in the Bloemfontein game - but he did play for Ulster this weekend and did very well for his team.
Coetzee was always a better player than Louw and at least recently he showed an ability to protect and recover balls - which Louw this year was worthless in.
Now with Coetzee back playing lets hope he gets a call-up to the Springbok team ahead of Louw.
Lügnerin, why do you persist with the same topic which has been barren ground for you? Do you have a crush on Steph? Why else would a grown man be so emotionally tied to a person he has never met? It's just like those tweens and their pop idols.
Firstly, no. Coetzee was never better than Louw. Meyer stuck with Coetzee throughout the 201 4 season, it was his big opportunity to stake a claim and he failed. He was one of the culprits for our EOYT problems. He was never a good Bok. I had hopes that he'd acclimate but it didn't happen.
Me saying Steph has issue with defence around the fringes is not an attack, it's a statement. It's also a fact. Why do you attack anyone who forms any unbiased assessment of his play if you are unbiased? It was plain as day and you denied video evidence. The only one campaigning for anything is you. Turning every thread into an anti-Meyer thread and attacking anyone who doesn't follow your cult. It's ridiculous, and boring.
"Firstly, no. Coetzee was never better than Louw. Meyer stuck with Coetzee throughout the 2004 season, it was his big opportunity to stake a claim and he failed. "
Auge - in 2014 Louw would have been in his peak, whereas Coetzee was around 23? It's hardly surprising that Louw was better, but it's hardly fair comparison when they're at a different stage of development.
Contrary to some people's opinion on here I actually think Louw was a really good player, as proven by his turnover record at the WC - but he's not the player he used, not even half
Coetzee was really starting to improve around 2014/2015 and find the type of player he is, he was affecting the game at the breakdown, even when he wasn't poaching the ball, he was slowing down opposition ball and he had a huge work rate. Injury has really stalled in his career, 2 bad injuries - he's mixed good game with bad game since he has been back this season, that's hardly a surprising thing, he's barely played rugby in 2 seasons, that consistency will come. He also broke a turnover record a few days ago - when our flankers are such a non-entity at the breakdown how can we ignore that?
Deddy, I covered two of his recent games. One was good, the other not so good, as you say. I actually said at the time he could be in the Bok squad if he played like that, I'm not so sure now. He was never very physical and still isn't now. I don't see him being a significant contributor at test level. Many of those turnovers would have needed him to be a tackle assist were he playing for the Boks. He shadows defenders well, looking for opportunities to attack the ball, but at test level that means forward momentum and a strong clear out. Everything happens much quicker and with more force. If he could stay injury free he'd most likely be better than Kolisi, but Rassie painted himself into a corner electing him captain. Besides, Louw had a very strong game against the All Blacks at Loftus, and that surely can't go unnoticed for the EOYT.
Ironically, I was never much of a Louw fan. Brussow was always better, but under Meyer he did produce, so I couldn't complain very much about it. Lügnerin will fabricate events to attack him, and that's what I spend time correcting.
One would not say that after the praise songs about Louw recently on site you were indeed a fanatical a Louw supporter. But then you have a pet hate list and Louw is definitely not on that list.
Coetzee always was a physical player and where you get that statement of yours from is amazing - do you ever dream up things to use against players - irrespective of how false they are?
Please get away from your moments of delusion and start thinking properly when players are being discussed.
I was always a fan of Marcell Coetzee but never did go so far as to compare his physical ability to what I think is the loosie's yardstick, David Pocock.
This is what Google gave me:
Pocock and Coetzee
Age: 30 and 27
Height: 1.84m and 1.91m
Weight: 115kg and 112kg
Not much difference between the two and I remember when the Sharks played against the Cheetahs, the battle between Heinrich Brussow and Marcell Coetzee was really good. Coetzee usually got the thumbs up because of his height advantage.
What did Louw achieved in the tests this year? Near to nothing - yet the two fools on site wanted him in the team all the time.
I would much rather invest in a younger player than Louw for building up the team of the future. Mozart and AO suffer from age mania and delusions when if came to player performances - the older the better in the case of Mozart and cloud 9 delusions about player performances.
Mozart - you remain a hater of Du Toit and some other players. That' s tory about Du Toit being blamed for pulling down Koch is as so often in the past total BS. The lightly framed story about Du Toit is also total BS and I think you should refrain from lying and stop your hate speak. By the way if there ever was a lightly framed lock in SA it was Matfield
And Du Toit was moved to 7 not because he failed as a lock - he was moved to 7 because both Kolisi and Louw failed at 7 and Erasmus decided to play him in that position so as to give the Springboks a further jumping option in line-outs. You are indeed twisted!!!!!!!!!!!
Mozart
Were you not the member who had a seizure when Du Toit made a mistake in the Twickenham test he few years ago. However, when Louw made the same mistake you claimed it was not similar.
When you ae reminded of the BS you have written about Du Toit - it siddenly becomes boring.
Do you actually know anything about the game of rugby or are you just on site to frustrate other members?
Mozart
Were you not the member who had a seizure when Du Toit made a mistake in the Twickenham test he few years ago. However, when Louw made the same mistake you claimed it was not similar.
When you ae reminded of the BS you have written about Du Toit - it suddenly becomes boring.
Do you actually know anything about the game of rugby or are you just on site to frustrate other members?
"Du you actually know anything about the game of rugby or are you just on site to frustrate other members?"
Don't speak on behalf of others Petze . Furthermore, you have done much harm to your credibility the past week. Some of your gaffs would only be acceptable from people who have never seen a game of rugby.
At least when I watch a rugby game I see what really happen - I do not make out that things happen which nobody else see happening - hence the praise song of the ability to see things other analysts bar him and you never saw happening.
Hell - I wish I could see the AO game plan implemented by Meyer - it may have helped the team when they never won a single test in the 2015 RC and they would not have lost in the ultimate disgrac e - the Japan disaster..
Why did they lose all their games in the RC? Who directly conceded 2 tries? Was beaten for another 2? Damian. Who lost the Japan test? Kriel. Who blew our WC? Damian and Lood. The same names pop up.
At least we know you actually watch these games, it's not like you thought Morné was dropped by Jake for the 2007 WC, or that André lost the Aussie test we won, or Willemse didn't throw a pick 7 in the game he didn't play in, or Morné lost the Krysny Yar game for Stade that he didn't play in (was playing for PSG with Neymar at the time), or Schalk playing flyhalf throughout 2015.
Always good for a laugh.
Coetzee is not better than Whiteley. I'd pick alot of players ahead of him at 8, even Louw. Jean-Luc can do a job at 8.
Dave
Don't worry about AO and Mozart - they see things nobody else sees in games. Total nutcases those two. Mozart has been on anti-Coetzee campaign since 2013 and the situation with AIO is that he is a creeper trying to get into Mozart's anatomy.
Bad news - both of them.
Whiteley has been one of our best forwards. He has been very effective in every test he has played. What have we seen from Coetzee, even at the peak of his powers? A player who was physically dominated. When given the chance to be the man in the absence of Alberts, he failed. I can guarantee you, he has no chance of outplaying Whiteley at 8. I wish Rassie would give him a run, so we can out it to test for good.
AO
Nobody who replaced Alberts could have ever been worse than him. He was the dud which never did anything positive as a loosie. So your statement is as per normal a fairy tail without substance.
Alberts was the key ball carrier in our pack, he was used to get over the gain line and a good screen for the backs. A very good loose forward when he was fit. Coetzee had a golden opportunity against Argentina and was dominated. We struggled to lay a platform up front. It was to be a common theme throughout 2014. We lacked punch in our forward carries. After labouring through the RC, Coetzee was finally discarded after a poor EOYT.
Coetzee didn't live up to the hype. He could not replicate what Alberts delivered.
Whiteley has been excellent on defence as you say, but also present in lineouts and good at the breakdown. He has good hands, being used to lead PODs around the field and link up with backs. He does alot of work around the field, and he does it well. Coetzee is not going to better what he has been doing. 115kg doesn't make a person strong, merely 115kg. Show me a Bok test where Coetzee was a standout physical specimen. I have all of his tests, many are available on YouTube.
@ Saffex,
Do you not think that maybe Marcels chance has come and gone by now?
27 or 28 years old and 2 really serious knee injuries? I just think SA should be looking for young long term solutions to the back row, 8 especially for Vermeulen. A rangy 8, sorta like Zac Mercer or young Reid.
