Masterful Morne

 After weeks of Morne bashing, he totally outplays Hernandez. I suppose  the Sapp missed all this, but as I often said, Morne's general play has been fine...he only needed the boot to recover. Best back on the park.

For the rest Kirchner actually had a good game, but I'm not convinced.  Habana was superb. Mvovo flimsy allowing jean to be turned twice by not taking on the Bargie backs.. Jean was solid, Fransie ponderous and Hogaard much better at wing.

Our lineout collapsed after Bekker left. Alberts and Coetzee were good....Strauss industrious. But I fear Bismarck is a huge loss.

This was much like the Pom series bright starts, but the second half wasn't convincing.

Cant find much to quibble about with what you posted Moz.

Morne came right again and snapsters campaign against him lies in ruins with a mountain of egg landing on visog. But you can bet he will still be touting jantjes.

Kirchner played as one expected him to. Reasonable performance. I suspect though that Lambie may get a shot next game.

Movo was okay but JP is missed as he has been playing very good rugby.

I am very concerned about the quality missing from our match 22. Coenie, Bissie (how long?) Vermuelen Schalk and JP.

I think Hougaard on the wing is very dangerous and I would be tempted to start him there and have Pienaar at scrumhalf.

Daniels as ALWAYS disappeared in the test and was subbed. Unfortunately he is not up to international rugby. I fear the result will be the same if Kolisi is tried. Kolisi may be better in a few years and we can reassess then.

DanIels and Kolisi will be swamped against the ABs. Likewise Mvovo......Jean gets brought down by the third man and Mvovo is shoved off the ball....turnover. He likewise will be dominated by the Aussie/NZ wings.

We have to focus on players who provide a competitive edge in internationals.There are plenty of fine S15 players who are not test calibre. Once  Bekker left Flip created  a huge vacuum.

Kirchner will never survive the away leg down under....confusion and scatter brained play will return.

If JP is not available next week....I agree....put Hougaard on the wing and start Pienaar. Hougaard is a great wing who plays scrummie. 

 Well I am pleased that you guys are impressed with Morne Steyn.

The AB's and Aussies are going to prove to you once and for all that he is a kicker and nothing else. No flair for the game or any attacking skills.

To compare him to Hernandez is a waste of time as both are well below par for international rugby.

Sorry!!!

 Kicker only is perhaps a bit harsh.....he has always been a sound decision maker and a fine passer. Not much of a runner though, I'll concede.

AJ I still at the moment prefer Morne to Jantjes. Lambie coud come into the picture but at the moment he has been paying flyhalf. Next yer it will bew interesting to see if Goosen can takeover.

AJ give credit where its due  - Morne had a very good game and was deservedly man of the match. The rest appears to have done him good. The guy has been overplayed as I pointed out repeatedly.

Snapster is not surprsingly very silenty on the matter!! Hahhahaha

i dont know how really to place nor rate this game. i felt like the pumas left a lot of points on the pitch and to be quite frank the boks had great moments and not so great moments. its to be expected after a long super rugby comp and the game time they had as a group together. that being said i felt morne played better than what he played this year but the rest of the players were very poor to be honest. so is it like they say in the land of the blind the one eyed is king ????...this was his best game i feel this year but looking at the opposing teams pivots he is still way of. the cross kick was a nice touch to see. was a great highlight

i was not overally convinced by the performance. looking at the quality of the game the AB and wallies is surely having sleepless nights. quality was not up to standard from both sides. pace of the game was for the most part very slow.i feel a player like pienaar needs to start at least. was light years better than hougaard. hougaard on the wing might be a great ploy. that being said only if he gets some ball that is. backline of the boks was realy poor to say the least. no other words to explain it

Well Morne didn't really impress me much at all, he did have a relatively good game, but nothing special to get excited about. I still don't think he has the ability to outplay Carter or Cruden. I do think he is realising that attacking is way to go, giving his backline more ball less kicking will be more effective. All we can do is hope he plays better because at the end of the day meyer will not drop him just yet.

@lucid me neither...he did was he was picked to do. kicking for goal to me is basic skill set just like passing of running so in that respect he performed the way he was meant to. first time in over a year and a bit. he did step up but if you want to compare apples with apples he is still nothing more than a average flyhalf. to his credit he was a lot flatter. a lot more speed on the ball in attack still lacks speed on the pass and width sometimes but in the week i saw there practices here in cape town he did only kicking drills so what you expect ????

the pumas left a lot of points on the pitch so this weekend will be very nice to watch.

I was waiting for this to happen. Everybody has been all over Morne Steyn for months, and then he comes along and have a bit of a break, sorts himself out and appears to be back on song again. Guess what? Just as I expected the haters find it difficult to give him the credit that is due.......................... and some would rather die than doing so.

I have to agree with Lucid, Morne was better but by no means impressive. Morne will fall apart against AB's and Aus. The "improvement" was only down to Steyn being along side him again, and how many times have we seen this in recent games.

Mvovo and Kirchner were a waste of time, they need to be shipped back to Currie Cup.

The difference between quick ball with Pienaar on the field was like night and day. He was so much better than Hougie.

With Pienaar on the field and Hougaard running the line Morne should have, we looked dangerous for the first time in that game.

Habana is arguably the worlds best 11 shuffling him to 14 just doesn't make sense. He should be on the side the field he understand and plays so well. Play JP's replacement at 14 not the other way around...

This was a very average win against a very average side. Nothing to get massively excited about.

The only thing we have going for us right now is that AB's and Aus played pretty average games too.

@ ceradyne we are not hating we are just honest. to his credit morne played a much better. may be his best game in years. but the pumas were sub par in my view. so i will give him praise when we play against quality teams. morne did what he is meant to do. nothing more than that. in the past he did not do that he was meant to do so in that aspects he redeemed a bit of credit.

where morne generally suffers is when the pack in front of him is not dominant then he tends to just crumble away. the AB's pose the biggest theat so i will reserve judement until we have at least seen him in the next couple of weeks

in my view pienaar really needs to start at 9

Morne outplays Hernandez Mozart. ??? Never heard of Hernandez.

Argentina are good soccer players full stop. Saffex gunna have the last laugh sorry mate....

Actually Morne was as piss poor as ever, but for his kicks at goal. We were playing bloody Argentina for goodness sake and could not score 4 tries at home, thanks to a piss poor pivot who could not ignite a backline if it slapped him in the face. What exactly did Morne do that was good?

For as long as we retain the likes of Morne at 10 and Jean at 13, we dont have a hope in hell of scoring backline tries against good opposition.

Morne was a kak as ever

Saffex, as much as I like Frans Steyn, he has been nowhere in this game, and that was also a big factor on our back-line not firing. It would be of no use saying any more about Morne really, because despite claims to the contrary the hate, or let's rather call it dislike then, lies deep enough for nothing he ever does to be regarded as good enough for some.

you cant fault ou snapster regarding consistancy!!

Agreed Frans had an average game by his standards - he did nothing wrong, but lets face it he has nothing on either side of him, so unless he creates havoc himself, there is little chance he will be running off any brilliance from useless Morne or offloading to anything special outside him to past it Jean.

I keep saying it..............until Meyer wakes up to the fact that Morne is no test flyhalf, never has been, that Jean and Habana are past it, we have no hope in hell of competing against Oz and NZ. The Argies are a second rate side, no real test at all and we were piss poor. Our forwards were fine, we just have very little to offer in the backs, where the pivot is useless and the 13 a retreaded 12, long past his best years - there is no zip at 13 at all......its boring pedestrian stuff on offer

Saffex

Though I am pronanly more critical of Morne Steyn;s performances than anybody else - I am also fair - when he plays well - like on Saturday - I give him credit.   he did have a hand in some good backline movements - where Francois Steyn was NOT involved.   Francois played a horror and I was the first one who said that.  

To say that he has nobody on either side of him is crap - he has done nothing during the whole game.    Steyn;s prolem si he has all th potential - but he has slowed down considerably and he is overweight.  That is not good for a backline player.   He was strangely "missing" from the game and was not at inside center isn at least two movements and was bounced off when he on one occassion tried tot ackle an opposing player. 

I believe that Meyer has a major problem here - if Francois Steyn does not buck up - he is going to be dropped like a hot potato and then the noise would be over-whelming.  Elsewhere you wrote about how good he was in the first two tests against England - but was he really that good?   One thing I can rmember was the case where he tried a relieving kick within his 22 that never really left the ground and hit a POM player 20 meters away - theother one was a kick between his own 22 and half ;ine that went over the dead ball line.   Both cases put the Springboks under pressure.   He really was not involved in any tries scored by the Springboks in the POM tests - so why was he so good? 

I expect much more form a player that I have admired for the past five years - and he is not prodicing what he should. 

 Sapp you  are such a poor sport....to use an old fashioned term. Morne got the Mom award, was rated the best Bok by  Planet Rugby and Rugby 365.... Created our first try,by drawing the defence and timing his pass perfectly...created Habanas try with a pin point kick.

And you are so small that you have to say he had a poor game....what a tiny little chap you are!

"I believe that Meyer has a major problem here - if Francois Steyn does not buck up - he is going to be dropped like a hot potato and then the noise would be over-whelming. "

This statements suprises me, since Hougaard and Morne have been playing such shit rugby for most of the year and they are still "first choices" and honestly who do you play at 12 besides Frans?

Gareth

Nobody is irreplacable.   IN all respects he was not th spark we need in the backline and played very average games recently.   I think the general approval of Steyn is based on his past hsitory - not necessarily his present performances.   I would love to see some improvement in performance and not him being in the team on reputation alone.  

I said clearly he must improve and that is indeed a requirement.   Who to replace him?  Not so easy to find an alternative center combination - but it can be done.   For instance move De Villiers to 12 and replace the latter with either Jordaan or Engelbrecht as 13.

In any event I believe that Francois can improve - but that may only materialize after some shock treatment like dropping him from the squad.  As alreadys aid - nobody is irreplcable.

Gareth

Nobody is irreplacable.   IN all respects he was not th spark we need in the backline and played very average games recently.   I think the general approval of Steyn is based on his past hsitory - not necessarily his present performances.   I would love to see some improvement in performance and not him being in the team on reputation alone.  

I said clearly he must improve and that is indeed a requirement.   Who to replace him?  Not so easy to find an alternative center combination - but it can be done.   For instance move De Villiers to 12 and replace the latter with either Jordaan or Engelbrecht as 13.

In any event I believe that Francois can improve - but that may only materialize after some shock treatment like dropping him from the squad.  As alreadys aid - nobody is irreplcable.

@ garethedwards  Morne is not 'creating' space for Francois Steyn to run thats the problem, what happened to set piece moves? the boks hardly ever try them anymore.

They need:

1. Good set piece ball.
2. Pace onto the ball
3. Players who are willing to change their angles to find the gaps.
4. Accurate execution of skills.

 

@Lucid I think you have misunderstood my post.

It was a direct response to Mike who believes Frans will/should be replaced for a "poor" showing. I simply argued that I do not believe he will be replaced, since HM has not replaced Morne and Hougaard, who have both been playing much worse than Frans.

@Mike

While we hear loads of talk about "Nobody is irreplaceable" and "Morne knows where he stands" the simple fact of the matter is that clearly Morne is not replaceable, in HM eyes. He is not the best pivot SA has to offer at the moment and for that matter Hougaard is not the best half-back, yet these 2 have featured in 4 out 4 teams he has chosen so far. While other positions have been changed up with ease.

One average showing and people want to drop Frans? Morne has been playing average(at very best) since April...

He may of had a better game, but put things into perspective. It was against a side that barely applied rush defence pressure against him and the back line, yet the SA backs still looked so poor. The only time we saw an improvement was when Pienaar was delivering quick ball to Hougaard, who was running fantastic attacking lines.

wow dropping frans for one poor game ???? how can you then justify a player like morne and hougaard not performing in over more than a year ??? talk about double standards geese.

hougaard needs to replaced by pienaar and maybe then there can be more momentum and the rucks needs to be way quicker

Gareth and Lucid

Frankly I do agree with you about the attitude of the coach and back line coach and has said that repeatedly in the past.   The problem starts with Hougaard - a very good wing Meyer insists on making him into a scrummie - and then we have Morne - who is not the best ball distributor around.   However, I still believe that Francois is not really play up to his potential in the Springbok environemnt.

Let me be bold - I watched him play rugby in France a number of times and he is at present playing a similar Northerh Hemisphere crash ball game.   We all know that the game in Europe is played under a different environment and coaching approach - much slower and more concentrated on crash ball playing - not on fluent back line play.   In that regard Meyer's back line play strategy fits him.   We all know that he has the ability to play a much better game.

We all know that Meyer would not change players - but ultimately test losses may force the issue and that is when Francois's position may come under review.  I am not saying drop him after one test.   However, when he did play for the Sharks and afterwards against the POMS, I noticed that he is much heavier than he used to be and that he is slower than he used to be.   He even looked worse in the test against the Argentinians,   That is why I said a different training and food regime may work wonders in his case.   Without that we have a lock forward trying to playi at center.    

The fact is Fransie at 12 is a bet. There is no track record in the S15 or the TN to speak of....at 15 there is a better case. Guys point to the RWC 07, but even there his miss of Tait almost sunk us.

When has Steyn ever made a break of more than 10 metres? I can't remember one. He looks sluggish  and disengaged at the moment.

The assumption that Fran's is an automatic choice at 12 was always flawed. He has the physical talent, but is he mentally a test 12? It's all to be proven.

If we want to play 10 man skop en jaag, Morne is the man. If we want to become world number one and play winning rugby, Morne must go. The modern game has no place for the crap we are playing and we'll only beat nations that play like we do, ie. NH teams and Pumas. We are going to get whipped by the AB's and even the wobblies with this game plan that clearly does'nt work anymore. We have to employ a fit and powerful, yet mobile, forward pack with a fetcher, a very quick-delivery scrummie, a flyhalf who stands shallow and passes flat and then we'll see the backline with the likes of Jordaan, JP and Lambie work their magic.

 Complete and utter bullshit, Morne was as ponderous as ever in general play, set nothing up on attack as ever and yes had a good game with the boot - whoop, whoop.

Created the first try, what a joke, the lad drifted and then thought shit, what should I do with this and popped it to Zane I think - if that is creating a try, I could do that for the Boks aged 40 odd. He created stuff all regarding that try.

Its a complete insult that he was MOM - players like Bekker, Etzebeth, Coetzee, Alberts and Kirchner were all far better.

We were playing Argentina for goodness sake. For as long was we play useless Morne we will not beat NZ and Oz - watch this space

Saffex wrote...." Complete and utter bullshit, Morne was as ponderous as ever in general play, set nothing up on attack as ever and yes had a good game with the boot - whoop, whoop".

Saff, who is your post directed to? If you look closely at my post which is before your one, you will see that I actually concurr with you, so I'm not sure who you directing your disagreement at.

Saff if you can't admit that Steyn had a good game then you are just a prejudiced idiot. He kicked all of his kicks, and they were very difficult ones, he set up two tries and kicked well tactically. Just because he has been in shart form for a while doesn't mean you can't give credit where it's due. Whatever your issues are with him, right or wrong, this game he performed well.

"Created the first try, what a joke, the lad drifted and then thought shit, what should I do with this and popped it to Zane I think"  Well it is good to know that you can read minds and know exactly what a player on the other side of the world is thinking while playing a game of rugby. It must be this uber special mind reading ability of yours that gives you such fantastic insight.

Seriously, get over your bias against him, if you don't like him, no skin off my back, but he played well, as illustrated by his man of the match award, and countless websites that are in agreement with him being given that award...as pointed out by one of the other posters here.

 Green that was directed at the muppets that said Morne had a good game. If that was good then our standards are very low. I dont judge a rugby player on his ability to kick a ball - we all know Morne is astute in this department and this has never been in question.

Blue, I dont need to read anyones mind - go check that try he 'set-up' as you say. Bloody hell there was nothing decisive about it at all. He drifts with ball in hand and then just pops it to Zane - there was nothing planned in that execution at all and hardly a decisive bit of attacking play that led to a try. Man you lot make so much out of stuff all.

I never said Morne had a bad game and I am certainly not going to say he had a good one, for he did not. The Boks were poor against the Argies and his contribution at 10 from an attacking point of view amounted to nothing.

Morne is a liability to the Boks and until we realise that, we will not beat NZ

Snapster is preparing his ground and beleives he is in a winning wicket. Our chances of beating the abs this year are not too good although we could win at home. If we lose in nz ou snapster will be bouncing up and down yelling his head off how right he was!  You see it will all be Morne's fault. If we had played Jantjes we would have won.

To snapsters "mind" the abs cannot be beaten with Morne at flyhalf and any loss will be landed at Morne's door regardles of how he plays.  As the chances of us loosing in nz are above 50% ou snapster is rubbing his hands in glee and looking forward to his great vindication after many a huge dollop of egg landing on visog!!

Snapster you have to admit I read you like a book! Bwahahahhahaha

Its very easy to dismiss perfect goal kicking. But Morne's kicking alone was probably 6 points north of expected in the Bargie test. Enough to swing a game.

 Supposedly once Fransie was at 12, gorms like Sapp felt all would be well. But with jean patrolling at 13.....nada was happening at 12. 

Morne created enough, Fran's was invisible

 Frans had a quiet game by his standards but was still better than Jean. Frans and JP were our best backs against the far more demanding English opponents - that's the true mark. Frans will stand tall against Oz and NZ as he has both the skill and physicality to dominate his opposite number, in particular whoever Oz play at 12.

Jean has been a complete failure at 13 for the Boks but for his first test against England - for the test its been ponderous crash ball stuff where no injection of pace is evident at all. What we need at 13 is a player that carries the creativity and physicality of Frans with interest instead of pounding into the opposition with little effect.

We need a 13 to run off Frans at speed, to use imagination and guile to beat the opposition.....pace with a step or swerve would be a bonus - we have these players in JP, JJ, Jordaan and Taute - time to move on and get a real outside centre at 13, not an old man who's best days are long gone.

But the true problem starts at 10 and one average performance against mino's now has clowns on here thinking all is well with Morne and Bok rugby - talk about short sighted and naive. 

Do you clowns honsetly think the average Morne is going to provide the answers against Oz and NZ - Carter and Cooper must be licking their lips - I know I would be if I was facing Morne. Hell is Morne could play for the Boks, most of us could have - for a skilful rugby player he is not.

On the contrary Sapp, the ABs will be licking their chops if your man Jantjies was at 10.....they recognise obvious  lack of bottle . 

As for Jean he is the only Bok back who can make yards against tight marking....and he showed that last week, to all who aren't blind.

 Jantjies would be a far better bet than Morne.

Wrong Jean has made little yards. The Bok backs that make yards are Frans, Hougaard and JP. Jean does not feature but for the crash ball crap