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Messam joins carded trio in dock; Rugby 365

Started by Just_win25 REPLIES544 VIEWS· 22 Mar 2015, 09:51
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JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
22 Mar 2015, 09:51
#1
22 Mar 2015, 09:51#1

Chiefs captain Liam Messam has joined three other players in the dock after the spiteful and brutal Super Rugby encounter with the Sharks in Durban at the weekend.

Three players - Chiefs hooker Hikawera Elliot, Sharks captain Bismarck du Plessis and Sharks midfield back Frans Steyn - were all red-cared in the first half of a match on Saturday, an encounter that was never far from spilling over.

The Sharks eventually won 12-11, courtesy of four Pat Lambie penalties - the last on the hour mark.

Elliot, Du Plessis and Steyn will all face automatic disciplinary hearings, following their red card performances.

Messam has joined them in the dock after he was cited for foul play.

Messam is charged with having contravened 10.4 (e): Dangerous Tackling.

The incident occurred in the 18th minute of the match between.

Upon review of the match footage, the citing commissioner deemed in his opinion the incident had met the red card threshold for foul play.

The citing is to be considered in the first instance by SANZAR duty judicial officer Adam Casselden.

All SANZAR disciplinary matters are in the first instance referred to a duty judicial officer hearing to provide the option of expediting the judicial process.

For a matter to be dispensed with at this hearing, the person appearing must plead guilty and accept the penalty offered by the DJO.

* Elliot is charged with having contravened Law 10.4 (h): Dangerous Charging - a player must not charge into a ruck or maul. Charging includes any contact made without use of arms, or without grasping a player.

The incident occurred in the 16th minute of the match.

The case is to be considered in the first instance by SANZAR duty judicial officer Adam Casselden.

* Steyn is charged with having contravened Law 10.4 (j) Lifting a player from the ground - lifting a player from the ground and dropping or driving that player into the ground whilst that player's feet are still off the ground such that the player's head and/or upper body come into contact with the ground is dangerous play.

The incident occurred in the 28th minute of the match.

* Du Plessis is charged with having contravened Law 10.4 (c) - a player must not kick an opponent.

The incident occurred in the 18th minute of the match.

All three cases are to be considered in the first instance by SANZAR duty judicial officer Adam Casselden.

All SANZAR disciplinary matters are in the first instance referred to a duty judicial officer hearing to provide the option of expediting the judicial process.

For a matter to be dispensed with at this hearing, the person appearing must plead guilty and accept the penalty offered by the DJO.

* Meanwhile Chiefs wing Tom Marshall has been issued with a citing commissioner warning - for contravening Law 10.4 (e), dangerous tackling.

The incident occurred in the 79th minute of the match, when Marshall made contact with Sharks' No.9 Cobus Reinach.

In this case the referee for the match, Angus Gardner, acted upon the incident by awarding a penalty - following consultation with the Television Match Official. Upon further review of the match footage, the citing commissioner deemed a warning (similar to an off-field yellow card) was appropriate.

A CCW may be issued by the SANZAR citing commissioner for foul play incidents that are very close to, but in his opinion do not meet the red card threshold for citings.

A player who has received three yellow cards or three citing commissioner warning (or any combination thereof) in the same Super Rugby competition shall be required to appear before the duty judicial officer appointed for the match during which he last offended.

JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
22 Mar 2015, 09:54
#2
22 Mar 2015, 09:54#2
Sounds like a tough/dirty game of rugby. So many cards and still the foul play continued. 
We can't blame the ref for this one as he carded players early in the game to send a message he would not put up with it.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
22 Mar 2015, 10:26
#3
22 Mar 2015, 10:26#3
JW 
Fact is this was not rugby - it was a constant continuation of dangerous and dirty play - the worst I have seen for years.  As the report indicated  the problem started with Elliot - who not only shoulder-charged an opponernt in a ruck - hitting him in the face - but went further and put his knee into Reinach who was in the maul flat on the ground.I think the judicial officer - looking at the footage - will notice that as well.   So three weeks ban is the most likely in this case.
The kicking of the opponent by Du Plessis came about as a result of Leitch hanging onto Du Plessis way off the ball to avoid him joining a rug.  Bismarck may plead  extenuating circumstances coupled to a good conduct record insofar as red cards are concerned and may yet get away with a warning or at most a one-week ban.
This is now the second time in three matches in which Francois Steyn was caught out with dirty and dangerous play.   His excuses of good conduct will be laughed off the floor by the citing commissioner and he would be lucky to get away with a three week ban.
Messam is not going to get away with it either.   He can - unlike Francois Steyn - plead good previous conduct - but a minimum fine of a 1 week ban is the best he can expect.
Maybe Messam knew what was coming - hence his remarks justifying the dangerous and dirty play during the match as of minor nature.  As a captain he and everyone else should condemn the play as unacceptable - his comments after the game was disgusting.    
Unless the Citing Commissioner deal harshly with these cases - it would set a very bad example/preced ent  for the rest of the season and I would say the maximum bans should apply.      
MD
Monkey D LuffyPro6,277 posts
22 Mar 2015, 12:15
#4
22 Mar 2015, 12:15#4
what exactly did meesam do???

and at what time in the game did this incident occur??
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
22 Mar 2015, 12:18
#5
22 Mar 2015, 12:18#5
Sasuke San:
"Messam is charged with having contravened 10.4 (e): Dangerous Tackling.

The incident occurred in the 18th minute of the match"
MD
Monkey D LuffyPro6,277 posts
22 Mar 2015, 12:30
#6
22 Mar 2015, 12:30#6
hi dr win.

nah it cant be the 18th minute, i looked and the cheifs had the ball the whole time until 18:30 when the knocked it on and then a scrum was formed.
unless he tackled his own player, lolz,

further down on that artcile u will see bismarcks disgusting dirty kick to the face was also deenmed to have happened in the 18th minute.

considering that the in game clock is always on screen for most of the 80 minutes, i dont know why its so hard for this article to get these little things right, rugby 365 originates from what nation i wonder???
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
22 Mar 2015, 12:33
#7
22 Mar 2015, 12:33#7
clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 15724 RE: Messam joins carded trio in dock; Rugby 365
March 22, 2015, 10:26:35

The kicking of the opponent by Du Plessis came about as a result of Leitch hanging onto Du Plessis way off the ball to avoid him joining a rug.  Bismarck may plead  extenuating cir[removed]stances coupled to a good conduct record insofar as red cards are concerned and may yet get away with a warning or at most a one-week ban.
Bulldust. Even though he is a great player, he is also a dirty player and a loose canon by nature.



sasuke uchiha

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5893 RE: Messam joins carded trio in dock; Rugby 365
March 22, 2015, 12:15:49
what exactly did meesam do???

and at what time in the game did this incident occur??



Why is that relevant?


MD
Monkey D LuffyPro6,277 posts
22 Mar 2015, 12:47
#8
22 Mar 2015, 12:47#8
@ceradynee,

" Why is that relevant?"

so that i can watch the incident with my own two eyes on the replay saved on my laptop.

as a kiwi i like to make my own assessments based on facts, so i want to know when it happened so i see with my own eyes,
as a saffa, i understand why u would ask me that,
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
22 Mar 2015, 12:49
#9
22 Mar 2015, 12:49#9
 Was it Messam that throttled the Sharks lock, just before Bisfart got carded? That was extremely reckless and way after the tackle. If the same incident I'm thinking of, then he should be looking at a lengthy ban. Why the TMO did not mention it while having a look at the Bisfart incident is beyond me.
MD
Monkey D LuffyPro6,277 posts
22 Mar 2015, 12:57
#10
22 Mar 2015, 12:57#10
@dbdraad,

thats the only incident i can think of too.

i wouldnt call it dangerous tackling though, cos the tackle was legit, but while he was on the ground from that tackle his arms did creep up round the neck of botha (i think it was him) like some kind of sleeper hold.
its an incident that should be reviewed though and is prob charged as a dangerous tackle as a technicality.
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
22 Mar 2015, 13:01
#11
22 Mar 2015, 13:01#11
 Bismark was carded around the 28th minute. I guess I will have to watch this myself. I only saw the game up until around the 30th minute & then went out to dinner.
MD
Monkey D LuffyPro6,277 posts
22 Mar 2015, 13:02
#12
22 Mar 2015, 13:02#12
its obvious that marius jonker the TMO missed it, when it comes to sharks games, he has the most one sided record ever.

on boots and all, it was revealed that the sharks have never lost a match with marius jonker reffing, the number of game he officiated after that dwindled down significantly.

but u only have tyo look at how hard he tried to play advocate for frans to only get a yelloow card, two refs and the black saffa commentator didnt agree with jonkers yellow only recommendation, and its not surprising to see hes a banana boy from way back.
MD
Monkey D LuffyPro6,277 posts
22 Mar 2015, 13:05
#13
22 Mar 2015, 13:05#13
@dr win,

the drity dirty bismarck incident happened at exactly the 17th minute.

frans incident happened round the 30 min mark though...
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
22 Mar 2015, 13:14
#14
22 Mar 2015, 13:14#14
 Sas, agreed that it is bogus to call that a tackle infringement. Headlock choke was deliberate and dangerous.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
22 Mar 2015, 13:35
#15
22 Mar 2015, 13:35#15
With the kbbs trying obfuscate matters as much as possible allow Beeno to set matters straight with typical clarity and logic etc.
Of great importance is to note the thug Elliot started everything. He committed two red card offences and got pinged on the second. FACTWhen Elliot was pinged we had the unedifying specatcle of wee messum havin a major rant high pitchedat the ref. This oaks is the chiefies captain!!! How embarassing!
Next whatever happened Draad before the Bissie incident what we all know is that messum was holding on to Bissie illegally at a ruck near the chiefies tryline. Bissie in retaliation flicked out a foot. It probably made contact but Meesum hardly noticed and one could not see any marks on messums face. The Red card was unwarranted given the provocation and the fact no meaning contact was made.
Next we had the confused tackle made by Frans and Reinach for which Frans got carded.
Then we had the Messum red card that was never given. This oaks is the chiefies captain leading by example and crying a river when Elliot gets pinged. Very embarassing again I would think.
Then the Marshall red card offence on Reinach that was never given.
So with 4 red card incident re the chiefs they were awarded one. We must all be very thankful for that as nz palyers are practically exempt from cards. Well done ref!
Also how did Beasts eye get into that state?How did Bothas eye get into that state?The citing commisoner must look closely at what the chiefs were up to.
We could also talk about chiefies players taking out sharks defenders nowhere near the ball etc. but point made. Fact is the wee chieifies started the nonsense and were by far the worst offenders.
THE BIG QUESTION IS WHY DID THEY APPRAOCH THE GAME LIKE THIS.Well there are two fundamental reasons. The Chieifes were smarting from being demolished in the scrum by the Stormers - also far from being at full strength!! They needed to regain some cred re their physicality.
Next they knew  Sharks big men like Du toit, Lewies, Oosthuisen, Alberts and Deysel were missing from the match day squad so they thought it an opportuity to rough up the weakend Sharks team. Obviously they would never have dared attempt this otherwise.
So lets not even begin to try and equate blame as the chieifes were by far the worst offenders.
The outcome. Well huge, really huge embarassemnt to the wee chiefies and their fans. The chiefies slunk back to nz (to think again) beaten by a team playing some  60 minutes with a player down on the chiefs numbers. Post match analysis is showing how messum and marshall deserved reds as well.
Lesson to be learned by the wee chieifes and their fans? Never try and mix it with the Sharks even in a weakened state. I mean you should have know this from the Sharks beating the hapless crusties with 13 against 15.Bwahahahahahahhahahahaha
So please no bleating now from the kbbs. The above accurately reflects events and the chiefies were found wanting on all fronts. Hahahahahahahaha
Again congrats to the sharks you made up all proud. Bissie on reflection your error was highly provoked and you are forgiven. But be aware of this old kiwi tactic of provoking and hoping for a retaliation the ref can ping. 
I trust thi s clears up matters







 

MA
manceRookie63 posts
22 Mar 2015, 13:40
#16
22 Mar 2015, 13:40#16
 While you are analysing the game, try identify how Mtawarira and Botha got those massive black eyes. The Chiefs started the dirty stuff and the Sharks players were too stupid to see what they were trying to do. Messam should have also been carded as well as the guy who put his knee into  Reinach's back at the end.
Anyway it seems all the Sharks need to beat NZ teams, are 13 players..
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
22 Mar 2015, 13:41
#17
22 Mar 2015, 13:41#17
 well said mance my thoughts too!
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
22 Mar 2015, 13:46
#18
22 Mar 2015, 13:46#18
 Beeno1: what is your relationship with this wee "Beeno" that you hold in such high regard and defer to so often.
"...allow Beeno to set matters straight with typical clarity and logic etc."

This quote is an example of the adoration with which you hold this wee Beeno. I do notice that you seem to be alone in supporting this deluded wee chap.
MD
Monkey D LuffyPro6,277 posts
22 Mar 2015, 13:54
#19
22 Mar 2015, 13:54#19
@brother beeno,

"Next whatever happened Draad before the Bissie incident what we all know is that messum was holding on to Bissie illegally at a ruck near the chiefies tryline. Bissie in retaliation flicked out a foot. It probably made contact but Meesum hardly noticed and one could not see any marks on messums face. The Red card was unwarranted given the provocation and the fact no meaning contact was made."



what we all know is that messum was holding on to Bissie illegally at a ruck near the chiefies tryline.
first of, messam wasnt even involved, it was the cheifs no8 michael leitch who bizzy kicked in the head.
and illegally holding onto bizzy???
no leitch tackled bizzy after bizzy picked up the ball and passed it from the basse of the ruck.
heres a timeline which shows how much of a fail ur comment is.
16:59 bizzys picks up ball (which he might have knocked on but story for another day) and passes it to bothma.
17:00 leitch tackles bizzy
17:02 bizzy kicks leitch in the face

the only thing being held here is the oxygen to ur brain

 Bissie in retaliation flicked out a foot. It probably made contact but Meesum hardly noticed and one could not see any marks on messums face.
very true, i wonder how its possible that michale leitch gets kicked in the face, and messam dosent get any marks on his face???
a mystery that only sherlock holmes could solve i guess

The Red card was unwarranted given the provocation and the fact no meaning contact was made.

only in south africa

LMFAO,
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
22 Mar 2015, 14:17
#20
22 Mar 2015, 14:17#20
 Sasue
Messam carried out a very dangerous tackle on Reinach before minute 18 - maybe not as bad a one as Steyn did - but dangerous nonetheless.   That is what seems to have been the problem also.  His hold onto the neck of a player and throttling him is another issue as well.
However, we will see what comes out of the hearings.  if the judicial officer as a New Zealand one - we can expect the same anomalies as happened in the previous case - but as far as I could make out - it is not the previous judicial officer who fouled up badly with a string of cases.  
I also think that they should stamp out dangerous play and none of the actions of Elliot, Du Plessis, Steyn or Messam should be cordoned by a light slap on the hand - it would just add onto the culture of dangerous play in Super 15.  
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
22 Mar 2015, 14:18
#21
22 Mar 2015, 14:18#21
 sasuke uchiha

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5903 RE: Messam joins carded trio in dock; Rugby 365
March 22, 2015, 12:57:23
@dbdraad,

thats the only incident i can think of too.

i wouldnt call it dangerous tackling though, cos the tackle was legit, but while he was on the ground from that tackle his arms did creep up round the neck of botha (i think it was him) like some kind of sleeper hold.
its an incident that should be reviewed though and is prob charged as a dangerous tackle as a technicality.



First... Point taken about the time of the incident.


What you have described is foul play. Whether a dangerous tackle  or not, it remains foul play.


10.4 Dangerous play and misconduct

m) Acts contrary to good sportsmanship. A player must not do anything that is against the spirit of good sportsmanship in the playing enclosure.


Sanction: Penalty kick12


Other infringements under this same section include punching, spear tackling, stamping, etc.


Unless choking an opponent is not deemed to be contrary to good sportsmanship, Messam was indeed guilty of foul play.







BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
22 Mar 2015, 15:04
#22
22 Mar 2015, 15:04#22
 Brother saSUE  okay its was Leechie who was to blame for this incident. But otherwise all the facts remain the same. wee meesum disgraced himself by his dirty palce and compalining to the ref - will be get pinged but unfortunately not during the game.If that is the only crit you sasue I have  clearly won the day
Congrats to the esteemed Beeno for setting the record straight.
JW from the above you can see that once again Beeno's sound judgement and grasp of events has floored poor saSUE  and the kbbs.

Nice to have saSUE  back of course as he needs lots of guidance re matters pertaining to rugby.
Oaks like ab ass, warped DUD and of course my good friend brycy must be mortified by what has happned. Not about the thuggery of course but because of the humiliating loss.   Bwahahahahahahahaha
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
22 Mar 2015, 15:13
#23
22 Mar 2015, 15:13#23
 I do of course regret any embarassment that fine lady Cloudy may have been caused by her misguided country men.

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
22 Mar 2015, 15:26
#24
22 Mar 2015, 15:26#24
 Beenz, there is no excuse for Bisfarts behavior . Lets hope all four get lengthy bans. FS has been looking for trouble for a couple of games now. Bisfart the same. Thugs, end of.
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
22 Mar 2015, 19:47
#25
22 Mar 2015, 19:47#25
Beeno: I see you have included a self portrait in your post:
 
Ever the sharp dressed man
Cannot agree with your view on events re the red cards. Rose coloured glasses when assessing Sharks foul play & delusions when assessing the Mighty Chiefs. Nothing new there of course
AB
ABasquefanPro2,549 posts
22 Mar 2015, 23:36
#26
22 Mar 2015, 23:36#26
 Mr. Been,
you are very sick, man.
Look for professional help
— END OF THREAD —

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