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FORUM / RUGBY /  Meyer must make best of lost cause

Meyer must make best of lost cause

Started by Beeno119 REPLIES250 VIEWS· 11 Sept 2012, 11:39
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BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
11 Sept 2012, 11:39
#1
11 Sept 2012, 11:39#1

JON CARDINELLI of Keo writes a depleted Springbok side cannot be expected to win in Dunedin and yet there’s still much to be gained in terms of developing a new starting flyhalf.

The unavailability of key forwards as well as the inexperience of the likely starters and combinations suggests that Saturday’s Test will be more about damage control than anything else.

Last week’s forward performance against Australia was poor, and there’s little chance that this week’s showing will be much improved.

How can there be any expectation of a better performance in Dunedin? Injuries and suspensions have hit the Boks hard this week, and the pack that starts at the Forsyth Barr Stadium won’t boast one established Test combination.

But let’s back up a bit and consider what Heyneke Meyer had to work with at the start of the season.

Victor Matfield and Bakkies Botha were not available, and neither was jack of all trades Danie Rossouw. Andries Bekker was injured. Schalk Burger was crocked. Juan Smith had made a decision to give rugby a break for a year. It wasn’t an ideal situation to start with, and has got worse as the season has progressed.

Bismarck du Plessis has been the biggest loss in recent weeks. Other players that have been injured include Coenie Oosthuizen, Pierre Spies, and Chiliboy Ralepelle while Ryan Kankowski has moved to Japan. The unavailability of this latter group has been a blow to the Boks’ forward depth.

Then Eben Etzebeth went and got himself suspended with a mindless headbutt on Nathan Sharpe. Then Jannie du Plessis and Pat Cilliers succumbed to injuries in the most recent Test in Perth. Going into this week’s clash in Dunedin, the Boks will be wanting for quality, synergy and experience in that starting pack.

In the past, there have been strong teams that have gone to New Zealand and been soundly beaten. What hope does this side have of succeeding where superior sides have failed?

A new front-row combination will start due to Jannie du Plessis’s injury, and Etzebeth’s suspension will also see a new face starting at lock.

Francois Louw is likely to start at openside flank given the challenge of the All Blacks’ loose forwards, but that would see Meyer making a further change to the starting pack. And while I believe Louw can be highly effective in this role, he is only into his second week playing under Meyer and the new structures. Don’t expect miracles from a new-look tight five, and don’t expect dominance from men like Louw at the breakdown.

It’s at times like these when some coaches will look to retain as many fit players as possible so as not to disrupt the team dynamic any further. It’s been reported that Meyer will stick with the backline that started against the Wallabies last week. That would be a mistake.

What can Meyer gain from such selections? The changes up front will compromise the Boks’ potential to play a more balanced game, and I’m sure they’ll keep things as simple as possible. However, it would be interesting to see how a new flyhalf performs. It’s a game the Boks are unlikely to win, and this may ease the pressure on less established flyhalf options like Pat Lambie and Johan Goosen.

Lambie shone in last year’s Tri-Nations when he started at flyhalf against the All Blacks in Wellington. A rag-tag bunch of forwards were soundly beaten by their New Zealand counterparts, and still Lambie managed to impress.

Meyer sees Lambie as a fullback but it’s at flyhalf where he can provide the Boks with more options in terms of attack and defence. He’s played there for the Sharks this season with some success, exhibiting a skill set that includes taking the ball to the gainline, sending it through the hands when the wide strike is on, and playing his team into good field positions via a great tactical boot.(I think Lambie is m ore a flyhalf than a 15)

Goosen showed the same all-round skills when he featured for the Cheetahs in Super Rugby, and has been tipped as the future Bok flyhalf. Meyer could make a powerful statement by starting Goosen this Saturday, but if he truly believes that the experience would do the 20-year-old more harm than good, then Lambie should wear the No 10 jersey. (That is the cruz of the matter - mor eharm than good?)

The Boks will struggle to keep the All Blacks at bay, but that doesn’t mean that nothing can be gained from the fixture. Changes need to made, and replacing flyhalf Morné Steyn with somebody more equipped to meet the demands of a modern day 10 is a step that needs to be taken sooner rather than later.

Well he could have all of Morne , Lambie and Goosen in the match 22. You could start with Goosen and pull him if he is struggling behind a pack one expects to struggle. That said there is nothing lie a black jersey to get the Bokke up to  game. I have seem more than one boks side written off only to astound.

So here is hoping that despite everyting we give these kiwi birds a severe snotklap!!  Argentina and Oz both showed these guys are not that great. Pity both Oz and Bokke are at a low ebbs as the abs would be toast. Even Brycy and Hkwa and saSUE would have to agree the abs are benefiting with a current malaise in both Oz and SA.

However please do note the many absent players that effect the quality of our match 22. Also note there are outstanding youngsters in the wings and will be coming on stream a sfrom next year. As Oz coach Eddie Jones once said - if South Africa gets her house in order no rugby nation would come close. (Please note Dr Moz)

So kiwi birds enjoy your time in the sun as dark clouds are gathering! The Mighty Boks will arise!

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
11 Sept 2012, 12:34
#2
11 Sept 2012, 12:34#2

Some arguments in the above article are true and near the mark - but the position remains that our backline is really disfunctional at present.   Our forwards are messy - but that is because Meyer himself chose some very poor players for the squad.   I would not have included some of the players he did include - namely Greyling and even Potgieter.   If in fact that if he chose to include Kankowski - it was possible - but he did not.

I must admit that it would be better to start with Lambie at flyhalf and put Steyn and Goosen on the bench.   Looking at the situation as a whole - the Aussies did not kick high and effective up-and-unders at Kirchner - the All Blacks would do that - and that is where Kirchner is weak.   If Kirchner fails - they can then move Lambie to full back and bring on Goosen to replace him.   Lambie is a lot better under high balls than Kirchner. I would rather experiment with that change now than later. .

I do not like the idea about the forwards.    My loosies would be 8 - Vermeulen, 7 Coetzee and 6 Louw.  Alberts should be on the bench - I am afraid he is really too slow to be an effective loosie.   I am really not in favour of bringing back Bakkies Botha - that is no investment for the future at all.   I guess that the locks will be Botha and Kruger - with Van der Merwe on the bench.   That is the result of poor squad selection - nothing else.   To my mind neither Kruger  nor Van der Merwe should have been in the squad in the first place.

The real problem is with the props and hooker.   Lets start with the hooker.   Strauss was disappointing in the last two tests - really disappointing.   Liebenberg was even worse - when he came on.   I thought initially that the two would make the grade - neither did.   I wish Fourie was selected and not those two.   Both are good on Super 15 level - but clearly out of depth on higher level.    Meyer at this stage has no option - but to play the sub-par Strauss - with the worse Liebenberg on the bench.

The props - blaas my siel.   Both Beast and Du Plessis were atrocious in Mendoza and Perth and it is not clear whether Du Plessis will be able to play - same with Cilliers.   That leaves Meyer with a serious quandary - namely that he would have to play Beast and Greyling as props - but who is going to be on the bench if the two mentioned are not available.    He may be forced to fly in another prop from SA.   In any event Cilliers is also atrocious as a scrummager - so why is he in the squad?

I do not expect anything much - other than a huge loss - on Saturday.

CA
carpetmuncherPro1,667 posts
11 Sept 2012, 12:49
#3
11 Sept 2012, 12:49#3

i will start with louw until brussouw gets a call up then louw will be on the bench for me. our biggest problem is ball retention and the way the rucks are played at the moment will really help us on both attack and defence. just a matter of getting the thought process right and thinking as a collective towards obtaining ball for keeping it for long periods of time. the pumas ran at the AB.

 

there forwards will match us so there its even but in the back they can have more firepower but the smart gentleman will know to beat them you have to attack them. conrad smith for me has weak inside shoulder so i wont mind us sending some runners at his inside channel. alberts or vermeulen to hit that channel with a offload can cause a bit of damage. we must not attack to wide because they have a quicker backrow so i much rather have the whole team play more towards the ball even it that it causes us to lose backline players to ruck. players placing the ball futher away from there bodies when they go to ground will also help us recycle the ball quicker. we need to work on our off the ball running. there is non to speak of aswell

 

the AB are not unbeatable but one needs to be accurate quick and sharp and rob them of the ball then one goes a long way to beating them. the key is to have the ball. kicking it away is mindless. feeding there attacking mindset. keep the ball run at them put up 10+ phases and force them to get desperate on defence

EK
EkPro1,464 posts
11 Sept 2012, 13:01
#4
11 Sept 2012, 13:01#4

 seems mostly everyone is advocating a forward dominated slower game against the AB's might be the best move yes. As Carpet mentioned above, The AB's have the backs to beat us any day. they aslo have the pace in the loosies. So we need to slow down the game. Ruan can do that, play stand off rugby with the forwards and go up channel one and two. Well we are good at that and can do it all night long. i would also like to  see some mauling, if we are to tighten it up. And keep the damn ball. No point giving the ball to the All black backs, they will run it all over in counter attack.

So it looks to be general agreement in a slow forward dominated gameplan against the blacks. What happens if our scrum falters? 

We have no plan B.

regarding the forward combo?

What about Juandre and Alberts at lock

with Coetzee, Flo and Vermeulen the loose trio.

Then bakkies can be on the bench.

HA
hakwaPro4,146 posts
11 Sept 2012, 14:11
#5
11 Sept 2012, 14:11#5

unlike you Beeno, we never underestimate the Boks! We never talk down the Boks! No matter how many times the Boks lose in the past or to who, we respect the Boks!

US
UsernamePro1,098 posts
11 Sept 2012, 14:19
#6
11 Sept 2012, 14:19#6

What utter garbage. The Boks were handed a record defeat last year and Lambie was the biggest culprit! How soon you all forget the All Blacks poured into his channel and our entire defensive structure collapsed at the very seams, literally. What profit is there in starting this coward and woefully ineffective player? Another record defeat? Goosen did very little to live up to the hype and this article pays no credence to our weak areas and it's effect on how the backline is able to function! Typical garbage from Keo.

AP
ApolloRookie32 posts
11 Sept 2012, 14:24
#7
11 Sept 2012, 14:24#7

"I must admit that it would be better to start with Lambie at flyhalf and put Steyn and Goosen on the bench."

Bwahahahahah!!!! On a Tuesday already... To be exact on September 11, 2012, 10:34:24

 

My point made! And to think, just yesterday Goosen was the definite starter...

US
UsernamePro1,098 posts
11 Sept 2012, 14:27
#8
11 Sept 2012, 14:27#8

Not only that, but who was it that was attacking Meyer fr not winning every game? Keo and the fans. Now it's 'common knowledge' that the Boks should throw this game for the betterment of Bok rugby. And people wonder why I call Bok fans complete idiots. *rolls eyes*

EK
EkPro1,464 posts
11 Sept 2012, 14:28
#9
11 Sept 2012, 14:28#9

 wow Aplollo so you take one person's view as the general view of all other posters beside you. Nice evidence to validate your claim here boet. This proves everything.....

AP
ApolloRookie32 posts
11 Sept 2012, 14:37
#10
11 Sept 2012, 14:37#10

Look at your own reply in this thread...

 

Just like everyone else (MOST of the posters - the sheep) here you criticise the Boks for lack of creativity... blablabla... Then you come up with this gem...

 

"play stand off rugby with the forwards and go up channel one and two....."

 

And the you wonder why I think so little of the intellectual capacity (or lack thereof) on here...

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
11 Sept 2012, 14:39
#11
11 Sept 2012, 14:39#11

Hey hakwa you are  a model of virtue! However I did say - That said there is nothing like a black jersey to get the Bokke up for  a game. I have seen more than one Bok side written off only to astound. So here is hoping that despite everyting we give these kiwi birds a severe snotklap!!

Card Lambie is no coward and I do not recall his chanell becoming an open door. What I have noticed is that he is not suited to 15 in my opinion.

As to Morne being the whole problem I also think it is only one part of the equation. Frankly with half our match 22 out things are very difficult for Meyer. Unfortunatley this will be ignored and the bleats will continue.

 

CA
carpetmuncherPro1,667 posts
11 Sept 2012, 14:43
#12
11 Sept 2012, 14:43#12

@ek i agree with you but we need to slow the game down when they are on attack we must try to whip up the tempo when we are on attack to try and disorganise there defense. they scramble very well so to move there defenders around we need to move the contact areas around to try and get a miss match going on defence. slow attacking ball wil not give us the holes we need but if the AB slow it down it must be taken up by the forwards to create quicker ball to play with. just as long as we rob them of ball posession. DO NOT GIVE THEM THE BALL AT ALL COSTS...make them defend defend defend defend. if we lose a few meters dont panic just setup another phase and just keep at it.

 

@hakwa beeno does not represent the majority of boks supporters. as kids we get raised that the Ab are the ultimate test and the rivalry over the years proves that a boks AB test is the greatest rivalry in the world. we respect the AB more than anyone else. AB is the benchmark for the rest of the world to follow

 

 

EK
EkPro1,464 posts
11 Sept 2012, 14:45
#13
11 Sept 2012, 14:45#13

 

Apollo
 
Status: Baby Bok 
Posts: 22 RE: Meyer must make best of lost cause
September 11, 2012, 12:37:24

Look at your own reply in this thread...

 

Just like everyone else (MOST of the posters - the sheep) here you criticise the Boks for lack of creativity... blablabla... Then you come up with this gem...

 

"play stand off rugby with the forwards and go up channel one and two....."

 

And the you wonder why I think so little of the intellectual capacity (or lack thereof) on here...

 

My but you are angry at the world. 

So pragmatism and looking at the what the situation demands witth the current staff on board is not one of your strong points? Never said It's my point of view Boet, only said that that seems to be the majority consensus.

If you think so little of the Intelectual capacity here, why are you here?

But keep on calling everyone else idiots. It makes you such good company....Maybe we can all learn from your gloriousness. seems you attempt to verbalise the Virtues of the Greek God you have taken to Emulate, I take it you claim to emulate the sun, truth and prophecy. Be carefull however you might bring ill health and plauge.

US
UsernamePro1,098 posts
11 Sept 2012, 14:49
#14
11 Sept 2012, 14:49#14

Carpet Muncher, the All Blacks are a disgrace to sport and not the benchmark for anything. They are unworthy of respect.

CA
carpetmuncherPro1,667 posts
11 Sept 2012, 14:51
#15
11 Sept 2012, 14:51#15

all that apollo needs is a hug......

EK
EkPro1,464 posts
11 Sept 2012, 14:53
#16
11 Sept 2012, 14:53#16

 Carpet. As I mentioned if that is the way we are going to go, i would like to see a plan B as well. As clearly we have been struggling to do exactly that so far this year.

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
11 Sept 2012, 14:57
#17
11 Sept 2012, 14:57#17

carper muncher respects the abs!!!! hahahahhahahahahaha. Sorry carpet muncher but I outgrew that as soon as I ceased being a child and after being fed a diet of dubious nz refs and general goings on. 

The kiwis here are decent enough oaks but one cant respect the bent ways of nz rugby.

Card I can think of one area where they are the benchmark. Can you or anyone guess?

 

 

KI
KitchenerClub Pro612 posts
11 Sept 2012, 15:46
#18
11 Sept 2012, 15:46#18

No wonder NZers consider saffers 2 be sore loser crybabies when they see comments like ApolloRetardCats and Bean Brains.

 

Just like 2 say arogant idiots like these 2 r the minority & real Bok supporters have helthy respect for the all blacks. Fact is the ABs have been much better than us since isolation & no amount of blubbing bout cheating refs will change that. Boks need to change things on the field like men; not by crying like big babys which is what ApolloRetardCat and Bean brain r doing!!

HA
hakwaPro4,146 posts
11 Sept 2012, 15:56
#19
11 Sept 2012, 15:56#19

 I rest my case!

EK
EkPro1,464 posts
11 Sept 2012, 16:04
#20
11 Sept 2012, 16:04#20

 :)

— END OF THREAD —

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