Meyer's Iamge

Preople on forums like this can write and say things with impunity - since it does not make headlines in the media.   However, when experts and knowledgable people start asking questions in a tone similar to what was said on this Forum - things must really have taken a turn for the worse.   t also indicates that Meyer has a serious image problem - which only he can correct.    However, to find such outright criticism after only five tests is really unique - i cannot remember another coach who did not have a "honey-moon" period before criticism started. 

A read two articles on News 24 this mroning.   In one of those comments of Jake White and Bobby Skinstad was mentioned.   Jake was critical of the approach towards the game displayed by Meyer insofar as his emphasis on forward play is concerned - the idea to choose dominating forwards without too much skill was mentioned.   White further said the high kick and charge game was not going to be successful.   Another issue raised by White relates to the tendency of Meyer - when under pressure - to revert bck to players familiar to him.   White specifically mentioned the case of Kirchner and Aplon.   He said under pressure Meyer would automatically select Kirchner.    That being the case - we cn really understand Meyer's selection and player usage strategy,   Selection is not necessarily based on skills level - the Blue Bulls approach is the norm.

Skinstad was cricitcal of the constant orders given to players on the field throughout matches.   He called it dictatorial and not allowing any of the players to show any initiative.

The second article in the main dealt with deficient skills of players and the fact that the general image of past coaches was that the players are not skillful.   In essence it pleads for a skills development program.   It also deals - without naming it - the favoured situation to pass balls back to locks and not to play a game based on a comprehensive approach to rugby.

The members of this Forum has on numerous occassions raaised the issues mentioned in the articles.  Maybe we as members are not as small-minded as some people may think - we have raised the same issues repeatedly - but the fact that it is now in the media - may have a positive result.   

Be it as it may - be assured that Mallett, Jake White and Bobby Skinstad  will not be on the dinner-invitation list of Meyer - they will at least be on the "Sh!t-list".

Mike, I was extremely critical of that Clown Piet De Villiers, I welcomed Meyer as national coach and I remember singing his praises on this very forum. I remember saying that he would hit the deck running, that he wouldn't stumble about before finding direction.....well, I was wrong.

Meyer can piss-off for all I care, that's as long as his bias towards selecting Bulls retards like Greyling, Kruger, Kirchner(at the expense of Lambie) and   pretenders like JJ Engelbrecht not to mention the useless Cilliers. He has no gameplan of any merit, Ricardo Loubser was a quota player and is a uselss backline coach. I ask, what credentials does he have? ...Fuckall! Meyer picked him....Meyer is a huge disappointment...I have zero faith in him.

@ clever mike it shows that the Rugby IQ in this forum is way above average, the likes of yourself moz, sharkbok radtad, green and co (everyone but beeno) has a real rugby brain. that fact that jake and co is barking on about the same issues shows that this forum is really the elite of the rugby IQ. we just need to get beeno some proper IRB training then maybe one day he can join in with some mature comments for a change :P

it terms of the remarks this has been raised on a lot of posts and talked about at length. so it shows the pen or the keyboard is migther than the sword

jakes comments about meyer is spot on but is a natural thing for coaches under fire to choose players that they know. jake has done it and a whole lof of other coaches has done it to.

Everyone but Beeno has a rugby brain. Wahahhahahahahahahahahahahaha priceless stuff from the muncher.

Was it jake who lost 50 odd to Oz? hahahahahahahahahahaha.

So Meyer will not drop Kirchner. Well we shall see Mike. Also I read somewhere that bobby did not call meyer dictatorial - given bobby's politically correct stance on matters that would not be in keeping as bobby is not  critical of anything much.

Yes the criticism is unique - ou pdv was given a much better chance than Meyer for sure. No doubt the resident experts felt his credentials were much better? Hahahahahahahaha. I recall getting roasted by some cretins for questioning pdv's credentials  and for saying he was a quota appointment - racist etc. Had the last laugh when Hoskins admitted as much.

Now suddenly we have Meyer knowing zip and  a howl from certain quarters because of a draw in Argentine. Amazing stuff for sure. I can only imagine how these guys will be pack pedalling in time. Oh we all supported him and knew he would come right, always knew he was a good coach etc etc etc.  The abouts turns will be hilarious!! What will not happen is an apologhy for this harsh undue cricism. Rome was not built in  a day oaks - the guy deserves a chance.

The role of being the head coach of the mighty Boks must surely sit at the very top of the most scrutinised and pressured job in the land. I for one couldn't think of a more intense and challenging environment to work in with the burden of carrying the nations expectations, dreams and anguish.

Its a role where you "live by the sword and die by the sword". The fact that HM hasn't yet lost a game is the insanity of it all, however the reality and direction of what he has currently coached is the concern we all have.

In a time when so much before him had highlighted a theme with the in and out of PDV, the failiure of the RWC and the retirment of those players that bought us the 07 RWC, all pointing to the imminent realisation and implmentation to change for our rugby style.

Nevertheless, HM in the space of 5 games quickly outlined his intent and it probably would have been better that we lost against Eng and Argentina as the change process may have been sped up?

TBH guys the game itself is fairly simple to play, its just not easy to win hehe. My point being that there are areas of coaching, player skills, player conditioning, physcological and mental toughness and tactics that need various amounts of attention and applied knowledge to ensure that we are targeting the right areas.

No use having the best players and then put "pop gun" coaches in front of them?

Why teach skills when we dont have the conditioning programmes to ensure they survive each game intact?

Why condition them physically if they dont have the physcologial toughness bourne from leadership and mentoring?

If HM can initiate critical competencies and take some hints from our forum then I am sure his reputation, image and success rate will increase exponentially!!!....hehe

Radtad

I could not find one sentence in your contribution that could be criticized - an extremely well-thought out description of the real problems facing Meyer.  

I personally think that Meyer has good intentions - but his greatest enemey is his mouth.   Instead of dealing with the overall picture - he makes remarks open to misineterpretation and misrepresentation.   His other problem is his belief - not ever ennunciated by him - about his game plan.   It could be a combination of both factors - for example when Morne Steyn and Hougaard was criticized - his comments were that he would coach them to kick better as if that was the only deficiency in their play.    That left a very negative impression that his game plan centers around kicking - not other aspects of all-round rugby performance.

I am sure that Meyer must realize that a one-dimentional game plan cannot work in the present rugby environment - but he never said a word about it and how he is going to ensure that a better program - with proper skills development - is to be implemented.   In the meantime he sticks with his key selection - Morne Steyn - the great exponent of the kicking game - thus giving strength to the impression that he supports a one-dimentional game approach.   He also stick to a real nonentity as backline coach and use a forward coach to deal with attacking play by the Springboks.

Meyer can deal with the above aspects very well if he is more careful about what he says and does.   He can get a real backline coach in place - somebody that could get better and more penetrative backline play going.  And he can announce a skills development programme - not entirely centered on 10 man rugby - and get some real processes in place for development of comprehensive rugby.

My question remains - where is Erasmus in this case?   He was with Meyer during the English series - but vanished from sight subsequently.   Can somebody enlighten us ordinary mortals about that one. 

mike,

I for one know that HM intent is to do the right thing. He certainly did not come into the role to fail. However, maybe his naivety and gulliability on how the Boks shortcomings rather than success would manifest under his tutelage has been found way earlier than he would have liked.

His lack of PR skills maybe something that SARU could assist him with as we have already had 4 years of sheer laughter from PDV...lol. HM would do right to get some good  advice in this area as it does embarrisingly show up his shortcomings. Sometimes saying less is better, rather than confirming to the world your ignorance when you do say something! 

The issue is how do you change a coach from the one-dimensional game plan into a game strategy that he obviously struggles to understand let alone teach or coach? Throw in Loubscher and the task becomes even more difficult to implement.......

Yes can I also ask "Where's Rassie?"

 Meyer is a decent guy. But he has made almost every communications mistake in the book. Primarily, he needed to manage expectations down this year, and buy time to rebuild the team. 

But poor player selections, inexplicable coaching appointments, and nothing other than Bools tactics, have made him very vulnerable, very soon.

These guys need some guidance. NZ have it right appointing an assistant coach who has lived through the pressure cooker experience.

His lack of PR skills!!! Sometimes saying less is better. Well well well   -  Meyer didnt say too much after the Argies match and was heavily criticised for not pointing out the errors . Which is it ragtad?

Meyer has had years in the game with no noted PR problems - its all in your imaginations. What has happened is that the team underperformed and now Meyer can do no right. Win and these critics will shut up and we will not hear about Meyers imagined lack of PR skills.

Moz  I believe he did say it would take time but forsome Rome can be built in a day. His player slections have been okay given the injuries. Obviously I disagree with some selections but on the whole the current squad is not too bad at all.

Coaching appointments did add to perceptions of bulle bias particualry Loubscher. Why actually did he not go for Slapchips who coached the bulle Super 15 side. Is this a quota thing again forced on Meyer?

The tactics against the Argies were poor admittedly but I think he will learn from this. 

Anyhow the Boks will want to win at Perth and Deans is under a lot of of pressure so it will be hard game. 

Beentwit,

you would certainly do better to get a PR officer to give you a selfcheck before you post bhwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa......you at least give the forum a laugh hehe...Its what he said that got him in trouble and he is now with the big boys where every word and intentions are noted and interpreted, sometimes for good and sometimes for bad. HM is about to face his biggest test yet and I for one hope that he goes forward with the guile, pose and slickness of a seasoned pro - results and pressure will see if he cracks like PDV?

We have o choice to learn from the previous games cause even an idiot like you would make changes to a out-dated gameplan (or maybe not  hmmm). The Perth test will be a blockbuster and the Wallabies will be tough.

ragtwit please read my thread re how good are the Argies at home. It will help you get some perspective as quite obviously  you, mike and munched are all at sea due to excessive over reactions and failure to understand what a process is and in fact that we are a process.

Dr Beeno providing much need medicine to ragtad and co!

another rubbish post by SArugby.com's resident troll

as crap as the weather is here in cape town i really hope you dont drown in you own "wisdom"

beentwat,

like I said your so predictable its laughable bhwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa................

 HM needs to loosen the grip on the club a little and relax. Needs a little more P-Divvy approach (but just a little). At the international level it is mostly about managing players and getting them to trust you, your systems and each other. Of course there is some skill development, but for the most part you are not going to transform someone. The players have yet to properly execute his game plan (agree or not). The constant yelling into that radio needs to stop and he needs to trust his players to execute and know what to do during the game - they have a better idea of what's going on than anyone else in the stadium, including Meyer.

I agree his gameplan is outdated and although it was successful at one time, it was because it was executed almost perfectly (Fourie at scrumhalf box-kicking and Morne kicking for goals 90%+). The real problem with it is that the margin of error is too small. It is the same thing that troubled the Stormers. With the lack of try scoring, any defensive lapse or missed kick at goal makes it very difficult to win or overcome adversity. An absolute necessity to the success of his gameplan is the accuracy of the goal kicker which makes it hard to understand why he has not switched out Steyn who is clearly not the same player as he was when Meyer was with the Bulls. His inconsistency have made the chances of HM's game plan being successful nil.

If HM doesn't wake up and realize his personnel doesn't fit his gameplan and make a change to his gameplan his tenure will be short-lived. Pienaar instead of Hougaard and Grant (currently our best goal kicker) over Steyn will go some ways to helping things but it is not the end solution

Fear is so hard to overcome yet it is the catalyst for change for the great teams to ensure they make the necessary tweaks to mantain the"advantage" and not settle for the status quo or mediocrity.

In the players we must trust....in the coach we must look for guidance...in the strategy we must ensure it is the right one for the right opponent..........I dont envy HM position as I have said in another post he hasnt even lost a game yet and he is massively in the firing line and under huge pressure to provide results. Nothing less will be accepted by our rugby mad nation even though it is sincerely unfair on him to reach heights of grandeur with key players out. The silver lining is that we are gaining experience and testing  the player depth we have.

Certainly agree that the yelling into the radio points to the fact that the gameplan is changing from tackle to tackle to missed opportunity hhhmmmmmmm???????? 

 Watching Meyer during a game reminds me of  historic TV shots from Germany during Hitlers reign.

A black boxer I knew from Stanger (Tap Tap M) once told me that the term : A boer maak 'n plan was nothing but blind boere making excuses for their mistakes.

So far I have to agree with his reference.