Mighty Stormers versus wee blues offcial thread

Poly please understand bro, I support the Sharks and the Sharks only. If the rugby gods said to me the Sharks will win all their round robin games if I wish but in return, all other SA teams will lose every game, I would say go for it.

Yes, its nice for SA rugby and the Boks for the SA teams to do well much the same for AB rugby but I dont give a shit about the Stormers results. In fact, this game was better for the Sharks that the Stormers did lose.

I watched the game totally neutral but it is shit to see a ref controlling things. I will be the first to admit that jew boy Kaplan is also very pedantic but he is consistent. He is pedantic both ways. Chris Pollock reffed the Sharks vs Chiefs in a game we lost. Yes, there was some calls I felt he missed but then again, Chiefs supporters might say the same. He was probably really good on the night. Glen Jackson though was a half baked player and an even worse ref!

The Stormers lost, unlucky for them but as a neutral watching that game I fail to see how the Stormers walked off the field with only 3 points at half time after a dominant display and territory dominance all half. Not did they only get 3 but the Blues got 9?? A penalty every visit to the Stormers half basically when the Stormers are usually a great team defensively?? No man, Glen Jackson was not looking hard enough at those Blues pilfers but he put the Stormers under a microscope!

As I said, if a ref looks hard enough, he can find a penalty anywhere! We just hope they are not pedantic and let the game flow. If they are pedantic, let it be consistent! I would like to see penalties become 1 point! Used only to really seperate a deadlock! This 3 points is bullshit with refs like this. A team scores 2 tries out wide, fails to convert and a team awarded 3 penalties is 1 point off them?? A team that scores 2 tries (and butchers two) should never lose to a team that never really came close to crossing the chalk. 1 point for a penalty will see refs shape up and let the game flow because he will need to award 5 kickable penalties to pull that try back!

As I said, the only guys I have a problem with as a ref for kiwi point of view is Bryce Lawrence and Glen Jackson. There is really only a handfull of really good refs in this world. They all from SA though ;-) kidding.

here is a link to an article i copied and pasted on here. the title of the article is called "alister coetzee slams stormers error rate"
www.sarugby.com/forum.cfm


but here are some key comments made by coetzee,,,

"It was a tough and it's a tough one to swallow...but, despite our high error-rate, the game could've gone either way (again)," said Coetzee on the Stormers site.

"If we had played (in the first half) like we finished the game, it could've been a different story."

"We made too many mistakes in the first half and we didn't take our opportunities."

"We were still right in the game (then), but needed to hold onto the ball and stop conceding unnecessary penalties.

"Our discipline cost us once again - it put them right on top of us and gave them kicks at goal."

"That said, however, the drive is normally a strength for us - it just didn't work for us."

interesting comments from coetzee, seems he has no problems with the referee at all and blamed the stormers for putting themselves in that position where they lost the game.

is coetzee south arican??? he sure dosent sound like one, :oP

nothing wrong with glen jackson in that game, he made errors which favoured both teams. did anyone mention the kick off from the stormers which habana knocekd back and wen out and jackson ruled knock on to the stormers???
did anyone mention the scrum in the 79th minute where kitshoff and ntbunis head pop up and jackson awards a knock on to the stormers giving them one more chance to attack???
was there any mention of both the sharks and stormers wrong decision to not go for goal when the points were on offer???
no of course not, that would require a level of objectivitiy that quite frankly is sorely lacking, much easier to blame the ref for there teams own shortcomings, :o/

That is why, at no stage did I blame Glen Jackson for the Stormers loss. The Stormers had chances to win it but didnt take it. I never said Glen cheated here. All I say is he reffed the breakdowns much harsher against the Stormers. That is all. He had the Stormers under a microscope and allowed the Blues a bit more freedom.

ps. Had the Stormers taken those 3 points, Jackson would have just found a way to give them back to the Blues. 1 extra penalty is all that would have been needed!

@boklogic,

fair enough, even though this comment of urs,,,

"That is why, at no stage did I blame Glen Jackson for the Stormers loss."

and this comment of urs,,,

"Had the Stormers taken those 3 points, Jackson would have just found a way to give them back to the Blues."

make about as much sense as a vergeterian lion, o_O

BTW, a very common theme here when people try to get their point across is by saying things from opinon, not from fact.
what io mean is u say the ref punnished the stormers heavily in the breakdowns, but not so much the blues, fair enough, but there must be specific incidents that pop into ur mind when making such a statement, so can u give me any examples, like this breakdown in the 25th minute etc.
many bloggers here tend to hide under the cover of "generalisation" instead of "specific examples" and i find that one can prove their point with specific examples, otherwise remember those english fans we discussed when talking about the 2003 RWC??? o_O

Interesting thread but no doubt brings the true issue into focus.... That being bent cheating kiwi refs winning it for their home team... week after week after week....

It is very true that Rugby referees are allowed to interpret much of the play and that IF they have an agenda (like just about every kiwi ref in history) then matches are controlled to allow maximum advantage to home team.

Just shows what a champion team the Reds were two seasons back when they actually BEAT bryce and the crusdaers in the GF... but HOW much the kiwis WHINGE when they are on the wrong end of the ref's whistle... Eg Stu dickinson's penalty on Cheating McCheat for incorrect entry...

Anyway I can only see this going one way (thanks to kwiis) that being refs becoming more perochial and less impartial thus guranteeing bigger advantage week on week to team with ref on their side. Stupid Small minded kwis at it again -

Disgraceful for those of us that enjoy a HARD & FAIR game (eg brumbies v cruds yesterday) - something kiwis know little about....  

@ Rootwit - your list of teams now confirms my theory that you indeed are a kwiw too....

Sas, the word "cheat" is a major one and can not be used to freely here. In my opinion, I have seen only 3 cheating refs in order of biggest prick.

1. Bryce Lawrence - WC 2011 SA v Aus - Confirmed cheat. Lost his job for it.

2. Steve Walsh - Super 14 final - Sharks v Bulls - admitted to missing not 1, but a few calls at the end there that ultimately cost the SHarks their first Super rugby title!

3. Glen Jackson - Round robin super 15 2012 - Sharks v Hurricans (New Plymouth) - just go and watch that game again pls. Sharks became too scared to compete at any breakdown or even make a tackle as Jackson penalised them all night long. Frustrating that he was allowed to get away with it. Hurricanes had carte blanche at breakdowns!

All 3 of those guys with Kiwi blood! Not just coincidence. I challenge any of you to find a more bent SA ref without having to traul the archives of the no tv days or before rugby was professional. It was a circus back then with home team refs ensuring the home team of the win and flour bombing games. Only difference is, SA refs stopped their shit in the professional era, NZL refs are still ensuring their teams win ;-)

Now coming back to the word cheat. I never contradicted myself Sas. Its a fact. Jackson didnt need to cheat to award a penalty. He just simply needed to be a bit more pedantic and he would have found a reason. At almost every breakdown there is an event that the ref "can" interpret an infringement took place. As I say, technically, he can say, "Hey, I never cheated!" but in reality he is favouring one team and looking harder for mistakes against them than for them. A stormers guy gets tackled, holds the ball for 2 seconds before releasing and can be blown up. A Blues player gets tackled, can hold the ball for 4 seconds and its fine. Luke Braid can dig in a ruck, slowing the ball down for 5 seconds whilst his defence aligns themselves and its deemed fine. Kolisi has his hands on the ball for 2 seconds and is blown up for hands in the ruck..Its all interpretation Sas and we are just not seeing consistency from some of the kiwi refs out there.

Lets not fight each other on this. Lets find a way to sort this out. It is out of hand now! Would you agree with me that Kiwi refs should be indefinately struck off the IRB panel and made to drink endless cups of washing powder until they clean them dirty selves out?? Only kidding about the washing powder. The rest im not.

Boklogic we can do this all day!

 South Africans complaining about refereeing, how very Australian of you.

@boklogic,

this is exactly what i mean but zero credability. i ask for an example of the case u make when u said glen jackson was more lenient on the blues then he was on the stormers and u name players na incident that mean nothing as luke braid and kolisi were comepting for the ball hundereds of times during the game.
all i ask is a time refernce for these gripes so i dont have to go through every single ruck and maul, it really is that simple, especoally as u have a genreal idea of when and where those incidents happened.

as for a more bent SA ref, just look at last years brumbies vs bulls match with marius jonker, that IMO is the worst super rugby performance from a referee.

amd i disagree about u contradicting urself,,,

"That is why, at no stage did I blame Glen Jackson for the Stormers loss."
this implies that jascksons not to blame for stormers losing


"Had the Stormers taken those 3 points, Jackson would have just found a way to give them back to the Blues."
this implies that jackson still would have made the stormers lose.

then theres this comment,,,
"1. Bryce Lawrence - WC 2011 SA v Aus - Confirmed cheat. "
but om amother thread u say this,,,
"What was done undercovers though was Bryce Lawrence but I still believe the truth will come out one day"

so one is comfirmed without the truth ever coming out??? o_O

i dont agree with anything u say, but everyone has a right to an opinon, even one with zero facts and a lot of contradictions, so u english fans can moan all u want, oh wait did i say english??? i meant saffa, LMAO, -_o

 Come on Sas, I always picked u to be smarter than that. Course Bryce is a confirmed cheat. You dont lose your job for being a great ref do you? That in itself was an admission of guilt.

On to the next statement. What I mean by the truth will come out one day is someone will talk. Someone will come out of the wood work and say EXACTLY what happened there whether it be Bryce himself or someone else ready to sell their story in a book! We know he cheated, that is not up for debate. He lost his job because of it so that is confirmation enough but what I wana know is who else was involved and why he decided to blatantly throw it all away...How much was he offered and by who?? I wana know who from NZL or Aussie maybe bought him off that day!

No my boy, Glen cant make the Stormers lose if the Stormers run through 10 tries. That the Stormers messed up for themselves. I am just saying, Glen Jackson would have worked hard to find a reason to penalise the Stormers. It was a close game and Blues had more help from the ref than the Stormers did. Simple as that. Glen pinged Stormers for all their transgressions and nailed them on the 50/50 calls but missed a lot of the Blues 50/50's!

Boklogic dont let the kiwis confuse you. If a ref is harsh with one side and lenient with the other he is biased. At best the guy was biased - ie bent.

Its also illogical to point to the Stormers squandering chances. That only undelines their domiance in the game. Despite these errors they played enough rugy to win and would have under a neutral ref. However a biased ref won the game for the Bules - I mean how many time has this not happened.

Last year we were whipping the crusties down under and got blown out of the game for being repeatedly offsides. Never happened before that or after. I think Pollock was the ref? A ref can blown one side out of it and bent kiwi refs do just that. 

Its really spoils the comp and something must be done to bring these bandits into line.

Trouble is these kiwis will even side with a guy like bryce lawrence!!!  When it comes to refs their cred is shot and there is no chance of them admitting anything.

Best leave this until the inevitable next time and the inevitable disclaimer.  

 It's a conspiracy man, first it was like the players maan, now it's the refs man, like the world of rugby makes sure no matter what happens NZ teams win man. It's crazy. That's what you sound like to most kiwis like a  cheech&chong episode. And SA is shafted out of SR and the RC and the RWC year after year.

 Sasu if u read first couple of posts from when I was watching this game live I even prophesied this would occur.... Why...? Because I'm gifted.... No. Because of kiwi track record. Go satisfy yourself and watch from 68mins of this game with both eyes open and u will see kiwi ref won it for blues.

One thing that has to be borne in mind - we have never really complained about any world cup save this one. Also at least we can admit Joubert's failings. Spot the difference.

In a match that is close on the scoreboard kiwi refs will find a way. So yes one does not need to be a prophet. Just wait for it to happen.