Morne Steyn

 Much has been written about how predictable he is.

It has become boring to see the boks play with Morne at 10- it is just the same old same old. 

I cant wait for Goosen to take over permanately.

With Goosen and Lambie at 10 and 15 we have a backline that can play. 

I would like to see Frans Steyn and even Jean Devilliers combining with Goosen- who is a running flyhalf, along with all the other required traits of 15 man rugby,

I think the homes games are going to be good. Goosen must start at 10, and lambie at 15 for both home games.

Any Bulls player who is not playing well must be removed from the squad for the home matches. I would rather see Lambie cover for goosen at flyhalf. 

The Bulls are woeful in the curry cup so not looking good for them in next years super14. 

A few points to consider here. This persistin attack on Morne is lingers because of the belief that HE alone is the reason the Boks backs are not as potent as they could be. That Morne plays too deep and is too predictable. Quite the contrary in fact. Of all flyhalves, Goosen the exception, Morne is far above all his opposites in South Africa in terms of variation. He has always varied his play, even when the emphasis has been on playing for territory. I can use the Super rugby opening win over the Sharks as an example, the media bleated Morne kicked away everything, that in spite of an exactly even spread between kicking and passing! They missed the point that his kicks were in fact devastating rather than constant. I shouldn't have to point these things out, as they are clear as day facts that have been put forward by myself time and again. I even posted that lovely video analysis on the Lambie/Morne comparison last year completelt exposing this myth. Lambie is a coward, predictable most times, highly erratic at others, always very poor on the decision making front.

So what then is the problem? The first real issue is that of the breakdown. We are not receiving quality ball in any of the tests in far too many phases. The lack of a fetcher means we require a full fifteen man effort at the breakdown and total organisation in protecting our own ball and attacking opposition ball. This is our primary weakness. Next? When using the ball the media draw too much attention to the 10, and NEVER - you read it, not ONCE on any major sports site - on any other major facet of back play. You all want Morne to pass, to play flat? Well, he has done that many, many times. It hasn't always been successful because of the way the Boks play off the ball. What did Eddie Jones target when Jake brought him in? Motion of the ball, i.e., movement off the ball. This is where our key problem is. I once posted several pictures of every pass Morne made in a single test last year, and highlighted the players around him. The Boks are too static, too narrow and there is hardly ever any change of angles. In fact, losing Fourie robbed us of the one player who could pick great lines. Our support play is another problem. We pass, hit the defender and die with the ball. Too often we rely on our big ball carrying forwards, but they are often too up-right in contact (see Bismarck) and the defence knows there is little threat of an offload (see Spies), so they can bunch up and hammer them hard in numbers. The one thing New Zealand do do well, and legally, is attack in layers, they are masters of diamond running and they use their forwards more than any other country in supporting the attack, not merely as bashers.

So in short, removing Morne will in all likelihood achieve nothing overall. Goosen is a fine player, the first 10 to actually live up to the hype, rather than being elevated exclusively by it. He has a fresh confidence and will be more inclined to run at the defence. For a time he may be successful, but he will eventually be rendered predictable just like Cooper and Giteau and thus far less effective. South Africans still do not understand how backplay works and are still too arrogant to put aside their dislike for a player so they can see the real issues. Rather shunt the blame onto a single player.

Morne is clueless & Requiscat cant watch much rugby if he rates him.

Goosen, Lambie, Elton even Ctrakilis is better then useless piece of crap M Steyn!!!

Requiescat

Why did you change your name for posting from Der Aristokrat?

Your spirited defence of Morne and the remaks about your earlier postings gave it all away.   We have been through all of what you said before - and one classical remark of yours - namely that Steyn has got "ball sense"  - is still fresh in my mind.   There is one thing Steyn - a very nice gentleman - has not got, it is ball sense.  

You fail to appreciate that with Steyn at 10 - the death knell of backline play is inevitable.   In other words you cut out attacking backline play completely with him in that position.   Yesterday he was off for 10 minutes and duting that time the backline did show some spark - which it did not show earlier.   Especially in the second half of the game Steyn kicked away every ball that came to him and his kicks were totally ineffective and aimless - giving the Aussie an opportunity to attack.   Steyn was not the only reason for the loss - but a major contributor to it.

He also missed a crucial penalty kick - which partly contributed to the rot that sets in afterwards.   The first players I would leave out of the Springbok team are the two players with no "ball sense" and distributional skills - namely Steyn and Kirschner.   The latter has no idea about how to pass balls and is a dead letter in attacking play.  the ball normally dies with him and he really produces nothing in attack - since he never passes the ball to other players, thus creating an overlap.

Insofar as backline play is concerned - there is one issue of importance -  backline coaching is really non-existent and we should get a proper backline coach in place.   We have the players - but skills development is the issue which really is in short supply.   .

+1. M Steyn takes all the attack out of any backline. Send him back to the Bulls they need him!!

Jalapeno, you are utterly clueless. Lambie was exposed long ago, a very long time ago. He, like Jantjies, was built up EXCLUSIVELY on the basis of his CC Final exploits; whhich were, to be honest, nothing much to write home about when put into proper context. Both are haphazard players, at best erratic, always of the lowest order in decision making and incredible cowards. Goosen and Morne are the only test quality 10s in South Africa, end of story. As I always say to my critics, prove your stance. I still, to this very day, have never had so much as a single critic construct any kind of counter argument with any kind of evidence to so much as even give the impression that I am wrong. Not even as I pose many questions to extract something worth reading from them. If you want to spurt forth the usual "Morne ares kak and I can like ta has uh playa who can do da attackin gamez" then you really are a joke. Less then that, useless, an embarrassment, utterly and totally substandard to the point that I refuse to believe that you are anything more than a spam bot created by Keo.

 Morne Steyn is so predictable that the opposition know what he is going to do. Even when he does pass the ball- the move is telegraphed it can be seen miles away. By the time Frans Steyn gets the ball- he has 2 players on him and he has no option but to hit the deck. Play Frans Steyn off a good flyhalf like Carter, Cooper, Goosen, Lambie etc- and then we can see him run onto the ball at speed at different angles to cut the defence or get his outside backs in the game,

Morne has played far too many games for the boks. Everyone know what he is going to do, before Morne himself knows what he is going to do, 

requiscat, y dont u prove yr stupid claim that Lambie is a coward? 99% of the rugby public see the qality of Lambie but now we must all just believe hes a coward cuz u say so? The onus is on u, not me. Put up or STFU!

If you want proof that M steyn is crap just watch the last few Springbok test matches (and get some1 2 tell u wats happening).

I've already done that. I went to great lengths last year to cover all these issues. I saw many colourful excuses as to why Lambie did what he did. But now, no, now the onus is on you to deliver. I haven't seen anyone - not even sports journalists et al -  go to the lengths I have gone to in covering various topics, never again will I do that until I see an attempt from you all to put something constructive forward. I have emphatically blown to pieces EVERY myth about Morne and all the lies building up the other players. If you want me to believe anything contrary to this, go on, I challenge you, put forward your case with detail. I'm open to a new interpretation if you can prove it.

Sharkbok, did you even attempt to read what I posted? You still keep plugging away with your anti-Morne nonsense. The fact of the matter is that Lambie is no quality 10, he isnt even a quality player. Maybe he couldn have been, but potential ability is not what I use to determine the here and now. And the here and now Lambie is a long way off the exciting player he WAS when he first came onto the scene. He is a very, very poor player.

Now onto the other issues. How does playing Goosen change the way our backline function? What you fail to understand is that the 10 is a link and there has to be a lot of work going on off the ball to generate attacking play. You want to know why Frans was well wrapped? Because there is little to no deception in our play. You could have put ANY other 10 in the world in that same phase of play and the result would have been the same. You either don't understand backplay or you are so biased that you are deliberately promoting something you know is a lie just because you hate a player, that's sad.

Now as I say, Goosen may be our better 10 in the end, but we will be no better with him overall. Watch and learn as I expect Meyer is going to give him a shot.
 

U proved this last year? Very convenient. Well in that case, let me put forward my case in gr8 detail....I proved M Steyn was a talentless donkey last year so i dont need to do it again!

Haaaaaaaahahahahahaha!

Im only seeng 1 coward here! You!!!!

requiscat, maybe people dont atempt to read waht u say cuz you talk a load of crap. Did u consider that?

u sound like a rugby n00b!!!!!!!

I've been disproving these fallacys for years. What I posted here already trumps all of your tasteless SuperSupporter brand tripe. As I say, if you want to be taken seriously, grow up and start conducting yourself in a way fitting of a huma being, if indeed you are.

As per any year of Bok rugby from 1996 onwards, if you want to discuss a topic in great depth, then by all means. I have the stats, I have all the footage right here. If you think you can back up your hot air then we can bring it all to light. But be warned, UnCleverMike was ruthlessly put to the sword with his web of lies. That serves as a warning that you better be on point. Not that you will take up this offer, because you don't have any specifics at hand. I know you are a typical Bok fan, very opinionated and loud but when pressed further, there is no substance.

 @Requiescat/Der Aristokrat 

Have you ever played rugby before?

What would you say if Dan Carter, Quade Cooper and all the other top flyhalfs told you that Morne Steyn was a one dimensional donkey? Or if the top coaches in world rugby said that planning a game plan against Morne Steyn at 10 was easy.

The 10 is not just a link. The 10 is the most important position on a rugby field, much like a quarter back in American Football.

When I read your posts I see a person that is not capable of building an objective arguement that is logically sound. Instead your own very limited subjective opionions will allways distort your understanding of reality.

You confuse your own interpretations with fact, so you will not ever be able to come close to building a logical arguement. You cant prove anything except that you believe your own opinions, and insult people who disagree with you. This must be telling you something, that you are underneath unsure of your own perspective if you have to keep insulting people who do not agree with you.

Morne Steyn plays crap in most matches, unless he is behind a very dominant pack- and usually playing on the highveld. This has been going on for ages, way before the slow ball from the rucks of this year. Without FDP to make the decisions he does not cope with pressure and just kicks the ball aimlessley. For all the passes that he does, how many actually create space. Anyone can pass, it does not mean it is a quality pass to create oppertunities.

What does this means- your statement "Goosen may be our better 10 in the end, but we will be no better with him overall. "If he is better, why will the boks not be better with him? This is an example of one of your logical arguements.It is like saying if you stand in the rain and get wet, you will not be less dryer?

It was obvious to anyone that the backline was suddenly better as soon as Goosen entered the match to replace Donkey Steyn.

Sharkbok, I know American Football very well, flyhalf is not even halfway near as important as QB. Sharkbok you are an absolute shambles, because you do not understand how backplay works. Your 10 is but ONE cog in the engine, ONE! In order to make an attacking game work you need EVERYONE doing their job. what if you are being hammered in the set pieces - the French regard the tighthead as the most important player in the team! - I pointed out so many things to you that you completely ignore, simply because YOU are incapable of thinking. Yes, completely devoid of grey matter. Pease address each point I made in succession and I will educate you further. But I suspect it would be much easier to squeeze an elephant into a thimble than impart but a grain of information into your head.

Here's another helping had I will gift you; I said Goosen MAY be our better 10 in the end, but it will NOT be any better with him. Yes, that is true, but here is where your complete lack of intelligence has you in a knot. If Goosen is our better 10:

- Will that mean our complete lack of support play will not be an issue?
- Does it mean our static movement will not be a problem anymore?
- Does it mean that the 90% possession shoveled to the forwards will now be more effective?
- Does it mean our breakdown problems will be of no concern?
- Does it mean our scrum woes will be of no concern? Afterall 10 is the only position that matters, as per you

You see, I see a far bigger picture than you do. I see that 10 is one cog that needs to function. Look at the Brumbies last year with Giteau. He is an exceptional attacking 10, far better than Cooper, but what did it achieve? If we have a better 10, it does not make up for our real problems, which is how the backline functions. As I pointed earlier, you are attributing your confidence in Goosen on the basis of the success the ENTIRE Cheetahs backline had. Yes, Goosen did his job well, but then so too did everyone else. The way that backline functioned was simply superb. The units were stronger than the individuals. There is a lesson to be learnt here, just as the Lions of 2008 and 2009 were by far our best attacking backline of those seasons. Do you now understand where I am coming from? I may not be as astute as a Jake White or Eddie Jones, but I do not ever say anything unless I have a very good reason to do so and after much careful consideration. You on the other hand will listen to anyone who says what you like to hear and is easily led by pretty woeful media tripe. If Morne is so one dimensional, please explain to me why he is the most balanced player between kicking, passing and running? Lambie and Jantjies, the two most ineffective 10s of the last two years pass all the time and with little thought. No surprise that when they play, their backline are incredibly sterile. Your argument, what little information you have actually presented just doesn't add up in anyway. You need to start thinking before you speak Sharkbok, you can be as critical of me as you want, but in the end there is infinitely more logic and truth in what I say than anything I have seen from you. As I say, I am open to a new interpretation if you can prove it. But that won't ever happen because fans such as yourself can't be bothered to spurt anything other than insults and very, very loose opinions. If you feel you have more in you then that, then bring it on! 
 

Morne Steyn is an insult of a test flyhalf, he should never have won a single test cap for the Boks. What are the chances we see Goosen at 10 against the AB's? I dont think Meyer has the balls to make that call

We shd go easy on Retardcat, hes in a lot of pain!

Poor chap!

morne is the remnant of a bygone era of over coaching and no skills development. goosen represents a new breed of players that is multi faceted and multi skilled in a whole host of areas. the real issue is when to blood him and how to approach it the whole situation. goosen wont be a effective either if he gets overcoached bogged down by conservative mentality. he is a dynamic player and the team enviroment and playing style needs to reflect that. we really need to employ a attacking consultant and develop skills

all i can say RIP donkey steyn..........there should a memorial service through pta today witha donkey cart doing through the main cbd i reckon