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Moz's extra strong, live Pom match notes

Started by Mozart99 REPLIES1,746 VIEWS· 04 Nov 2018, 22:37
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CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
07 Nov 2018, 12:40
#81
07 Nov 2018, 12:40#81

Stupid as per normal.   When he cannot admit that he and Mozart buggered up - he puts a mule on site - showing he has mental deficiency. LMAO

AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
07 Nov 2018, 12:48
#82
07 Nov 2018, 12:48#82

You've been debunked. Only an angry mule would fail to comprehend the clip posted, then attack the debunker . You were too eager to be disagreeable, because you never learn from past failures, and ended up with egg. Ende.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
07 Nov 2018, 12:50
#83
07 Nov 2018, 12:50#83

Plum sorry - to describe a kick one has to see what happened subsequently - an aimless kick is never recovered by the side kicking the ball.   It is total delusion  to claim that kick was an aimless kick.

An aimless kick is normally made when it cannot result on pressure on the opposing catcher or where the kick represent a plain ball handover to the opposition.   The other thing is that an aimless k9ick is what Morne became famous for - kick for tth sake of kicking - in other words it is a kick without any objective whatsoever.    

Sorry - and the ball was NEVER recovered by May  and the Springboks recovered possession deep in the English 22. 

It must be totally delusional what Mozart wrote in this case and that is a fact.  

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
07 Nov 2018, 12:50
#84
07 Nov 2018, 12:50#84

Plum sorry - to describe a kick one has to see what happened subsequently - an aimless kick is never recovered by the side kicking the ball.   It is total delusion  to claim that kick was an aimless kick.

An aimless kick is normally made when it cannot result on pressure on the opposing catcher or where the kick represent a plain ball handover to the opposition.   The other thing is that an aimless k9ick is what Morne became famous for - kick for tth sake of kicking - in other words it is a kick without any objective whatsoever.    

Sorry - and the ball was NEVER recovered by May  and the Springboks recovered possession deep in the English 22. 

It must be totally delusional what Mozart wrote in this case and that is a fact.  

AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
07 Nov 2018, 12:52
#85
07 Nov 2018, 12:52#85

I'm not surprised Mike has trouble evaluating this situation. He also said the tries we conceded in the RC from aimless kicks were tactical concessions. Very loose definition for aimless, when it furthers his agenda. 

PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
07 Nov 2018, 13:02
#86
07 Nov 2018, 13:02#86

Ok Mike

Let's expand on that point.

A batsman plays a stiff bottom hand defensive shot that gently drifts back directly into the bowlers hand for the easiest of return catches.

The bowler fluffs the easiest catch of his life and drops it.

Do you think the batsman tries to replicate that shot, telling himself that the otucome was desireable, in that it dented the bowler's confidence, and as such there was nothing wrong with the shot? Do you think the coach sits in the dresing room telling the rest of the batters "Watch and learn boys!"

It's an unforced error. The very name of the situation tells you everyhting you need to know.


BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
07 Nov 2018, 14:24
#87
07 Nov 2018, 14:24#87
My two cents on the incident. I think the kick was a decent option, but it was not executed properly. If De Allende had put a bit more on the ball it would have passed May and given the chasing pair of Pollard and Nkosi a decent chance of snapping up the loose ball. Two on one. I like those odds. Worst case, if he had kicked a little harder, is May gathering the ball right on his try line, but under huge pressure from the chasing pair. Still probably a positive outcome for SA. He did not kick it hard enough though. So that is that. 
I think you guys are analysing everything De Allende does with such a fine comb now that it has become ridiculous. The decision to kick was made with very little time, in the heat of a test match. It could have gone either way, and was a decent option. If any other player, not on the hate/love list, had done that, it would have been a non event.    
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
07 Nov 2018, 15:31
#88
07 Nov 2018, 15:31#88
Bloo ...we and Mike in particular have been going on about the unnecessary turning over of the ball. This is a case in point, it was an unforced kick. Look again at the clip. The only thing between Nkosi and the tryline is May, 10 metres back. Nkosi could have raced onto May angling a bit inside and offloaded to Allende looping round as he took the tackle. Back play 101 and a likely try. Do you think Crotty and Ioane might have tried that? Do you think the ABs or Folau and company would have kicked to a man who was 10 metres closer to the ball.....for no good reason? The very people who were howling for ball in hand rugby are now defending a gratuitous kick. And once again you raise bias as the reason.....are you sure....it's a pretty nasty allegation. Are you really positive that criticizing kicking when there is an open wing to pass to, is bias?
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
07 Nov 2018, 16:29
#89
07 Nov 2018, 16:29#89

How open is Nkosi?   This is the type of supposition that theoretically is better.   I have seen hundreds of such kicking which is basically turning into an advantage for the ball kicking team.   There were so many defenders that prevented Nkosi from scoring.   

No Mozart - you turn suddenly from a kick supporter - who preached that kicking is the answer - to query a real pressure kick.   A pas may ion theory have worked - but it was about 40 meters from  the tryline and the chances were that the movement would have ended up much less effectively than the case was in fact.    

Mozart - if Fat Fransie was playing and he made that kick - we would still read about praising him a year from now.    

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
07 Nov 2018, 16:32
#90
07 Nov 2018, 16:32#90

I've seen much worse kicks by the Boks than that one this year alone.

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
07 Nov 2018, 17:00
#91
07 Nov 2018, 17:00#91
Yep I've seen worse.....but here's a better kick, Duh passes to Nkosi....he commits May and then chip kicks him. Now that kick has a chance of scoring a try. Better yet Duh passes the ball to the open man!!!
AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
07 Nov 2018, 18:20
#92
07 Nov 2018, 18:20#92

If you want to see a good grubber from 12, watch the Welsh test. André did it and created pressure. We got the ball back. 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
07 Nov 2018, 18:26
#93
07 Nov 2018, 18:26#93

A nd we lost the test!!!!!!!!!!!  Look at what Andre did in two tests against the English - unsuccessful plodder.

AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
07 Nov 2018, 19:52
#94
07 Nov 2018, 19:52#94

André's body of work is better. He was better in the 3rd English test and overall less of a hindrance in the last test. I've already cited several problems with Damian. Being bamboozled and beaten inside, allowing England to advance deep into our 22. Allowed England runner to run across of the face of him and past the edge of the defence. Willemse was the only thing preventing a try. He was run over head on. He also conceded a decisive penalty after the ref warned  him he was offside. Failed to pick up any runners. His game, exactly as I have already stated. To the detail. I don't need to turn this into a player x vs player y debate. Damian fails all on his own. Damian the player and Damian the mythical creature are two entirely different things. Where have we seen this movie before? 

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
07 Nov 2018, 21:11
#95
07 Nov 2018, 21:11#95

I like "Damian The Mythical Creature" more than "Damian The Tractor"

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
07 Nov 2018, 21:42
#96
07 Nov 2018, 21:42#96
Kriel's the mythical creature...hardly ever seen. Allende is pretty obvious plouging on in donkey low, hence the Tractor.
BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
08 Nov 2018, 08:06
#97
08 Nov 2018, 08:06#97
Nah Moster, don't agree. I reckon the English drift defense could well have closed Nkosi down if he'd received the pass. Yes there were mainly forwards in that defensive line, but Farrel was also there, and I reckon he had enough pace to cut Nkosi off. So it was not only May he would have had to contend with. Please note, my previous post is not about bias in this specific clip. I just pointed out the magnifying glass on De Allende. There were no guarantees either way. If he had simply passed to Nkosi I'd say a 50/50 chance the cover defense would close him down. If he had kicked ahead, but a little harder, i'd give us a 50/50 chance of turning it into points. In short, there were two possibilities, okay maybe three with the chip kick you suggested, but in my opinion they all had roughly the same chances of success. The option De Allende eventually chose, was not executed properly, and that was his only fault. As I said, if any other player had made that decision, it would just have been a chance that was not finished and nothing more. 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
08 Nov 2018, 08:09
#98
08 Nov 2018, 08:09#98

Lets take this discussion a bit further and look at alternative inside centers - so we can see what alternatives he has to be more effective at inside center.

Mozart - you are always wise after the act - so tell us who you support for selection at 12.

BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
08 Nov 2018, 08:14
#99
08 Nov 2018, 08:14#99
That is a good point Mike, but Mozter has made that very point in the past, so I don't think there is much to debate. We simply don't have great centers in SA at the moment. And we have not had great centers for a long time. The truth is, De Allende is not a play maker and neither is Esterhuizen. They are both okay, but that is about it . Ezterhuizen is slightly better on defense, and De Allende is slightly stronger ball in hand. Other than that, they are pretty much on par in my book. 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
08 Nov 2018, 09:06
#100
08 Nov 2018, 09:06#100

BB

Fact is that one of my main problem with Esterhuizen is his defense - he has huge problems in that regard.   If his defense is analyzed it is clear that he ahs too high a missed tackle ratio and too low a tackle count to be a good enough defender at 12.   Even on Saturday he made two tackles and missed 2.

De Allende had games especially in 2015 where he showed serious deficiency in defense - but this year his defense was very sound.  His 2015 reputation should not be used at present.  One can analyze his defense this year and it is twice as effective as  Esterhuizen factually was. 

I think a careful analysis will reveal that I think De Allende play according to a crashball game plan favoured by Erasmus - and he is very effective in it.   But is that the real game required by the Springboks at present?   I frankly do not favour such an approach.

        

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