SASaffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SASaffolk Captain30,741 posts
01 Oct 2014, 23:15#3
Moffie you lie all the time when it comes to what actually happens on the field.
Mike is right you are a low life liar.
We have lies about Marcel, Malherbe, JJ etc.....but the best was Rooi exposing your lies regarding your call on Pollard....Exposed old man
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
01 Oct 2014, 23:19#4
Mozart
Anyone that watched that game will confirmn that you lied about that incident. They were not even when Ashley-Cooper got the ball and your constant lie inthat regard is a fact.
Serfontein did not move aside to avoid clashing with Ashley-Cooper - he was at least three meters behind him - how could he move aside to avoid a clash?
Why do you persi st with your lie - you stupid old fool?
This is not the first time you were caught out about incidents and it won't be the last - so stop being a liar.
AGAgPleezDeddy
Club Pro900 posts
AGAgPleezDeddyClub Pro900 posts
01 Oct 2014, 23:19#5
Mozart, sorry if I'm wrong, but don't you want Fourie at 13?
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
01 Oct 2014, 23:25#6
Incorrect Vetsak, Rooi as you call him tried....but I rebutted with several postings I made on Pollard way early. After that he took the deep dive. Not once have I been succesfully accused of lying on any Board....because I don't lie. You, with your predictions, lied to guys you know, knew you were lying . That's really classy ....low life.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
01 Oct 2014, 23:27#7
Jeez Mike you reallly are stupid. Let me try again....Kuridrani breaks ....AC and Steppie set off after him. AC gasses Steppie by three metres by the time he takes the pass....he then adds to his lead. Can I be any plainer.
SASaffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SASaffolk Captain30,741 posts
01 Oct 2014, 23:33#8
Don't lie Moffie you did not come close to rebutting him. He showed you up for the liar you are
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
01 Oct 2014, 23:43#9
Believe what you like...I had Pollard as Springbok flyhalf of the future when you were still pushing Jantjies and Goosen.
SASaffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SASaffolk Captain30,741 posts
02 Oct 2014, 00:07#10
Don't lie you only mentioned him late this s15. I touted him as an 18 year old baby bok. I was pushing Goosen and lambie, get your facts straight.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
02 Oct 2014, 00:19#11
The first mention Mozart ever made of Pollard was after he came on from the ebnc h - I think it was in late April - and scored a try for th e Bulls in Super 15. He then was supporting Francois Steyn as flyhalf and if that could not be Morne Sreyn - and Mozart's first mention of Pollard as a potential Springbok was when he advocated the elimination of Goosen and Lambie from candidacy for the flyhalf position.
Even then he stuck to Francois Steyn and in the alternative More Steyn - and said that Pollard can only become a real contender in 2016.
Those are the real facts of the s ituation.
SASaffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SASaffolk Captain30,741 posts
02 Oct 2014, 00:20#12
Exactly Mike......good old Moffie lying again
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
02 Oct 2014, 00:27#13
Set out together with Serfontein three meters behind and at least two meters outside of Ashley Cooper is correct. Beng shoulder to shoulder with Ashkley-Cooper and moving away to avoid with the latter are outright lies. Being outgasssed ois also a misrepresentation - Serfontein was 5 meters away from Ashley-Cooper when the race started and was five meters away from him when the latter scored.
Yes you can be plainer by sticking to the truth - but with you that is highly doubtful.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
02 Oct 2014, 00:59#14
So in April Imentioned Pollard was the flyhalf of the future....did you two clowns? Nope, you were still stuck on Goosen....advantage Moz.
As for the Serfontein incident you are deliberately going back again and again to when AC received the ball. The race started before that, when Kurindrani made his break. But never fear, as soon as we get the highlights I will expose you again.
I absolutely guarantee Step moved to avoid AC as they both set out to chase Kuridrani. Which proves they were level.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
02 Oct 2014, 01:10#15
Balls - Mozart - utter Balls. There was no race beforre that - you are lieing and got caught out and now tries a mythical explanation. What a load of utter crap and we have to put up with it.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
02 Oct 2014, 01:14#16
This is funny, the OOm clearly missed the crucial part of the incident which occured before AC got the ball. So the sneak is trying to shift..
But its not going to work. No race? So we have Kuridrani breaking free....Steppie and AC running shoulder to shoulder to his right....but the fact that AC then put 3 metres on Steppie before getting the pass is ok?
Here's the truth, if Steppie kept up with AC he could have tackled him as he got the ball, or any time after that up until he scored. Step was in a much better position than Hougaard to make the tackle...but he got gassed.
Now tell me that isn't the gospel truth.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
02 Oct 2014, 05:46#17
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x26rgg8_wallabies-vs-springboks-2014-1_sport
And here it is.
The move starts when Hooper runs over Coetzee providing forward momentum.
At precisely 25.21 Kuridrani crosses the Aussie 10 metre line ....Stepfontein and Ashley Cooper are two feet apart. Ashley Cooper sees the opportunity and accelerates opening a 3 metre gap while Steppie lopes along. Then Steppie gets it and accelerates, but AC continues to open up the gap. In spite of slowing to take the pass AC continues to maintain and further widen the gap.
Finally as he scores the closest to AC is Hougaard who literally was metres away initially.
It's hard not to conclude Steppie is pace challenged....AC has never been viewed as a speed merchant.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
02 Oct 2014, 06:02#18
By the way Mmaaaik you incredibly dumb man....if you are 3 metres behind and 2 metres to the side....you don't have to make up 5 metres. The correct answer is 3.6 metres....Pythagoras taught us that over two thousand years ago.
Oh dear another humiliation....game, set and match
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
02 Oct 2014, 06:32#19
Mozart
Your latest description is an aberration as well - the previous lie about shoulder to shoulder has been eliminated - but the space difference has been shortened to two feet - so that remains a serious lie as well.
Let me give the correct version for the members to see.
The lie is now starting earlier - The move starts when Hooper runs over Coetzee providing forward momentum. The forward momentum was provded when Habana head-butted Pollard in a failed tackle attempt and both landed up omn the grass behind Kruridrani - who as a result got through the defense. That is never mentioned by Mozart as the reason for forward momentum. Just another outright lie by the liar.
Let me give the correct version for the members to see.
The ball came back from the breakdown situation with the Springbok backline not in the normal order they would be from standard play. De Villiers tackled the second ball handler and he managed to get the ball away to Kuridrani - who is covered by Pollard. Serfontein was covering Ashley-Cooper. Habana went inward and in a failed tackle attempt head-butted Pollard - both landing on the grass - allowing Kuridrani through. Ashley-Cooper saw what happened and charged forward immediately and Serfontein had to turn around and start running. By the time Serfontein started running - Ashley-Cooper was three meters away from him and two meters inside of him. By the time Ashley Cooper received the ball that space differential was still the same and that was more or less the case as well.
Dumbo - that mathematical calculation is utter BS in the game of rugby. It may be the case if a players runs in straight lines - but it is not so in rugby imn practice - sine the lines ran are variables.
Ashley-Cooper may not be a speed merchant - but he has enough speed to play on the wing - Serfontein is essentially a number 12 center. You never ever has been truthful in anything you say about players you dislike - so here you are talking the same KAK again.
Stop being a liar - that may help to enhance your tattered image on this site.
PAPakie
Captain17,321 posts
02 Oct 2014, 06:39#20
Ok, let's see if there are any lies here:
"The move starts when Hooper runs over Coetzee providing forward momentum."
Accurate. Hooper breaks the Coetzee tackle and halfway through a second tackle to crash over the advantage line.
The whole AC incident.
"Ashley Cooper and Serfontein were exactly at the same spot on the field
running towards the Bok line....when Kuridrani broke through. Steppie
actually moves to avoid clashing with AC."
Image 1 below shows this as accurate as Serfontein steps around and behind AC from here.
"They set of after the ball exactly even. But AC accelerates much faster"
Image 2 & 3 shows this as fairly accurate, although I won't say they started exactly even.
What
I did notice is that Serfontein is jogging and only starts accelerating
in image 4, when he crosses the halfway line. That is the first time he
puts his head down and that you can see him putting effort into the
chase.
Draw your own conclusions on what happened and on
Serfontein's culpability, but Mozart's description of the incident seems
pretty accurate.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
02 Oct 2014, 07:20#21
Pakie
That first image was immediately after Serfontein turned around and before he started running - Ashley-Cooper was already at speed by then. That is the difffernce here and both you and Mozart made a mess of your explanation. Mozart saying that Serfontein and Ashley-Cooper was running shoulder to shoulder was a lie.
How long does it take a player to turn around and start running against a player who is already at pace? That is the long and short of the matter. Once a player has turned around and the other player is already at pace - the difference woukd be three meters or more. And although there was a slight forward movement with Hooper - that was never the key to the problem - the key was the missed tackle on Kuridrani - in the main caused by Habana.
PAPakie
Captain17,321 posts
02 Oct 2014, 07:51#22
Serfontein wasn't turning around Mike. Look here, even while AC is still moving towards the Kuridrani tackle situation Serfontein is already facing the same direction and moving with play. His fatal mistake is moving behind and around AC instead of just going with him .
Here is the moment AC starts accelerating. There's barely half a yard between them. Serf's right boot will come down in line with AC's left boot. Not shoulder to shoulder, which is why I said "I won't say they were exactly even", but close enough for Serfontein to still be able to play a part in the defense had he accelerated right away. Instead, we only see him putting his foot down once he crosses the halfway line. By that time AC is clear.
As I said, make up your own minds. I'm just demonstrating that Mozart's description of the events were mostly accurate, with the "exactly even" start being the only inaccuracy, and then only by half a yard.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
02 Oct 2014, 08:09#23
Pakie
You showed to photos - from Photo 1 it is evident that Serfontein is standing still - while Ashkley-Cooper is already running. The theory that Serontein could play a role in defense - was never Mozart's point - what was his pooint was the pace issue.
Be it as it may - it is always difficult to judge from still photos what actually happens on the field of play - because they do not reflect the actual motion of what happened. I looked at the actual video recordings and there really is some discrepencies from that perspective. Taken from the front of the Wallaby teams running - there was a much clearer difference in what actually happened than is reflected in the still phtoto's.
The key remains - where were the various players the moment when the ball was passed to Ashley-Cooper. That was when Serfontein was substantially further adrift from Ashley -Cooper than your still photo's showed.
However, Mozart's original description - which was an outright lie - wa s that Serfoontein was runnibng shoulder-to-shoulder with Ashley-Cooper - and that he has a pace deficency based on that. Even your still photos confirm that was not so.
BObobbok...
Captain10,129 posts
BObobbok...Captain10,129 posts
02 Oct 2014, 08:22#24
Oumaaik , were you a politician in a former life ?
SASaffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SASaffolk Captain30,741 posts
02 Oct 2014, 08:28#25
What you clowns fail to miss is that AC is running at pace as a support runner. Jan would have been facing the opposite direction as a defender. The momentum is with AC on attack, Jan would have had to turn around surely to chase?
Obvious?
PAPakie
Captain17,321 posts
02 Oct 2014, 08:31#26
No, Serfontein was not standing still at any time. Watch the video will you? Minute 26:25 or thereabouts on the video time is the event.
As for the pace issue, I'd call them about even. Image 1 is when AC gets the ball, image 2 is 30m further on just before he gets tackled. Gap seems the same, so from this evidence they look about matched for pace once they're going full out. AC's acceleration will probably burn Serf from a standing start though.
BEBeeno1
Captain40,032 posts
BEBeeno1Captain40,032 posts
02 Oct 2014, 09:24#28
Thanks Pakie for providing the evidence.To me Serfontein reacted slowly so no commentt can be made about his acceleration.What could be said however is that Adam is slightly quicker based on the fact he had ball in hand which does slow a runner down a tad. Very little in it.
Adam often plays wing for the wallabys so he has a nice tiurn of pace. To me Jan is quite quick enough. He pass out to henricks after cutting the Oz line could not have been better. His defence is really solid and he looks to be a fine test ceter in the making as is Allende.
What is certain is that Moz was not lieing. I would appeal to ou maaaikie and snapster to refrain from such allegation and lift the tone of the debate.
02 Oct 2014, 10:06#29
Nice work Paki! It is obvious to me that AC gets away a little earlier than Serfontein, once they get going their pace seems much the same. Serf was caught napping a wee bit, but that is not what this argument is about, it is about pace, and from where I am sitting the two are about the same.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
02 Oct 2014, 10:07#30
Beeno
In the interest of less animosity on the Board - i witdraw the staement that Mozart was a liar - and just state that he misrprepresented the factual information pertaining to the incident in question in an effort to discredit Serfontein.
BEBeeno1
Captain40,032 posts
BEBeeno1Captain40,032 posts
02 Oct 2014, 10:08#31
I would give Adam a slight edge - he is the ball carrier bluebok. Not much in it.
02 Oct 2014, 10:12#33
Beans that may be, but the difference, if any, is very small. It is hardly like a prop trying to chase down a winger or anything.
CLClaydog
Club Pro691 posts
02 Oct 2014, 10:43#35
Looks as if Serf is more guilty of slower reaction time than being too much slower than AAC. Though in fairness he probably expected someone to actually tackle Kurindrani.
PAPakie
Captain17,321 posts
02 Oct 2014, 10:59#37
They were moving forward at about the same pace Dave, AC just started his sprint earlier than Serf. That's the difference. By the time Serf woke up AC had 3m on him.
Claydog, Kuridrani had already broken free of the tackle when AC started his sprint. See my image above of the moment AC sets off - Kuridrani is clear. Serf has his eyes on the action, so he couldn't still have been thinking that Kuridrani would go down. Why he was so slow to react is anybody's guess. As I said, he only switched to full pace 10 metres further on when crossing the halfway line. It's like he just wasn't picking up on what was happening.
But anyway, the main culprits were Habana and Pollard. Habana came off his wing, so AC was in the clear. I think Pollard may have made the tackle if they hadn't interfered with each other.
SASaffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SASaffolk Captain30,741 posts
02 Oct 2014, 11:03#38
Good old Moffie exposed as a liar AGAIN
02 Oct 2014, 12:58#39
Ditto what Claydog said.
Weasel just likes to bend his description in favour of his opinion, not a reliable poster.
