Mujati blames Quota system

@mrdebbs. You are the one who is missing the plot. The reason that I am "nit-pickin" was that you were trying to create the impression that I was wrong about the events back when Mujati became a Springbok, while you hade everything wrong. Then you even had the audacity to tell me to get my fcats straight. You are harping on about the younger Du Plessis to divert the attention away from your won slip-ups.

@Beeno. You are also losing the plot as usual. Mujati spent longer at the Lions than what he did at the Stormers to start off with. He played one season at the Stormers. You are missing the point completely. Mujati was in excellent form when he arrived at the Stormers. He was rated on par with Beast and there was a lot made of about the Beast/Brian partneship in the fornt row. His form and play at the Stormers deteriorated badly. Those are the facts. I do not see what you are trying to prove with your table of events. It has nothing to do with the argument. Now calm down and screw your head back in. I know when you are fuming and hystrical when you are typing, because that is when you start typing like this:

Dont even try t oargue ou pdv wouldnt have picked him if h ewa sgoo denoug. even  half wit like ou pdv knew he as playing poorly for the stormer sand knew he wasa quota palrer.

In addition, I have never blamed the SARU coaches. I blamed the mamparras in Cape Town who slipped up and allowed his form, fitness and condition to go down the tubes. Why could they not get the same out of him that Northampton got out of him?

Lets start at the beginning:-

After checking his background info on the Internet and casting my mind back i wa trying to remember what my thought was when he lfet the Stormers to go to play for the Saints.  As far as I can remember now I think that -

  *   Mujati was very good whilst playing for the Lions and I thought that the Stroemers did well to take him on contract;

  *   Whilst playing for the Stormers - he was not as hot a property ads was intitially expected and I personally did not really regard him as a topline playerthat is a massive loss to the Stormers'

  *    His playing career for the Springboks was not all that impressive either.   He played in 12 tests in 2008 - but in only two of those he was in the starting line-up - for the rest he was on the bench and brought on during games.   Not altogether a frontline player - whilst he was in the Springbok squad.

  *   It is apparent that Mujati did develop further as a  player after he left the SA - hence his very favourable impression made by him on club rugby level.    While really not givingt an indication is SA that he is a top quality player - he did have a strong record of achievement and a very good image in rugby circles in England.

The whole argumet of whether he could play for SA or not is really irrelevant.  When he left SA he was not really the top player one would expect from a regular Springbok player.  Shortly after his departure, the SA Government decided that only SA citizens could represent SA in international sport - be it rugby, cricket, soccer or any other sport.   The idea that rugby was singled out is rubbish - the ruling applied for all codes of sport.

Mujati could not qualify for SA Citizenship.   He was not resident in SA at the time  of the Government policy change and did not ply his trade here.  There basically was no eason why he could be granted citizenship here.   That autonatically disqualifies him for selection to the Springbok team and arguments to how good he became as a player are really theoretical and immaterial.    

The other immaterial aspect is if he met the citizenship requirement - would he have made the Springbok team.  Nobody really can epress and opinion on that one.   Club Rugby in England can more or less in strength be compared to the Prmeier Division of the CC.   We all know that it is a substantial step up from CC level to Super 15 and a furher major step up to intenational selection.  I think nobody can really objectively assess that one.   We all know that Saffex builds up a huge halo around playerrs and then wants them in the Springbok team immediately - so his claim must peraps be seen as really day dreaming.   He would likelybe in contention - but nobody can say with conviction and provide real proof that he would have been a certainty.

Lets start at the beginning:-

After checking his background info on the Internet and casting my mind back i wa trying to remember what my thought was when he lfet the Stormers to go to play for the Saints.  As far as I can remember now I think that -

  *   Mujati was very good whilst playing for the Lions and I thought that the Stroemers did well to take him on contract;

  *   Whilst playing for the Stormers - he was not as hot a property ads was intitially expected and I personally did not really regard him as a topline playerthat is a massive loss to the Stormers'

  *    His playing career for the Springboks was not all that impressive either.   He played in 12 tests in 2008 - but in only two of those he was in the starting line-up - for the rest he was on the bench and brought on during games.   Not altogether a frontline player - whilst he was in the Springbok squad.

  *   It is apparent that Mujati did develop further as a  player after he left the SA - hence his very favourable impression made by him on club rugby level.    While really not givingt an indication is SA that he is a top quality player - he did have a strong record of achievement and a very good image in rugby circles in England.

The whole argumet of whether he could play for SA or not is really irrelevant.  When he left SA he was not really the top player one would expect from a regular Springbok player.  Shortly after his departure, the SA Government decided that only SA citizens could represent SA in international sport - be it rugby, cricket, soccer or any other sport.   The idea that rugby was singled out is rubbish - the ruling applied for all codes of sport.

Mujati could not qualify for SA Citizenship.   He was not resident in SA at the time  of the Government policy change and did not ply his trade here.  There basically was no eason why he could be granted citizenship here.   That autonatically disqualifies him for selection to the Springbok team and arguments to how good he became as a player are really theoretical and immaterial.    

The other immaterial aspect is if he met the citizenship requirement - would he have made the Springbok team.  Nobody really can epress and opinion on that one.   Club Rugby in England can more or less in strength be compared to the Prmeier Division of the CC.   We all know that it is a substantial step up from CC level to Super 15 and a furher major step up to intenational selection.  I think nobody can really objectively assess that one.   We all know that Saffex builds up a huge halo around playerrs and then wants them in the Springbok team immediately - so his claim must peraps be seen as really day dreaming.   He would likelybe in contention - but nobody can say with conviction and provide real proof that he would have been a certainty.

Lets start at the beginning:-

After checking his background info on the Internet and casting my mind back i wa trying to remember what my thought was when he lfet the Stormers to go to play for the Saints.  As far as I can remember now I think that -

  *   Mujati was very good whilst playing for the Lions and I thought that the Stroemers did well to take him on contract;

  *   Whilst playing for the Stormers - he was not as hot a property ads was intitially expected and I personally did not really regard him as a topline playerthat is a massive loss to the Stormers'

  *    His playing career for the Springboks was not all that impressive either.   He played in 12 tests in 2008 - but in only two of those he was in the starting line-up - for the rest he was on the bench and brought on during games.   Not altogether a frontline player - whilst he was in the Springbok squad.

  *   It is apparent that Mujati did develop further as a  player after he left the SA - hence his very favourable impression made by him on club rugby level.    While really not givingt an indication is SA that he is a top quality player - he did have a strong record of achievement and a very good image in rugby circles in England.

The whole argumet of whether he could play for SA or not is really irrelevant.  When he left SA he was not really the top player one would expect from a regular Springbok player.  Shortly after his departure, the SA Government decided that only SA citizens could represent SA in international sport - be it rugby, cricket, soccer or any other sport.   The idea that rugby was singled out is rubbish - the ruling applied for all codes of sport.

Mujati could not qualify for SA Citizenship.   He was not resident in SA at the time  of the Government policy change and did not ply his trade here.  There basically was no eason why he could be granted citizenship here.   That autonatically disqualifies him for selection to the Springbok team and arguments to how good he became as a player are really theoretical and immaterial.    

The other immaterial aspect is if he met the citizenship requirement - would he have made the Springbok team.  Nobody really can epress and opinion on that one.   Club Rugby in England can more or less in strength be compared to the Prmeier Division of the CC.   We all know that it is a substantial step up from CC level to Super 15 and a furher major step up to intenational selection.  I think nobody can really objectively assess that one.   We all know that Saffex builds up a huge halo around playerrs and then wants them in the Springbok team immediately - so his claim must peraps be seen as really day dreaming.   He would likelybe in contention - but nobody can say with conviction and provide real proof that he would have been a certainty.

They do not even have a Vodacom Cup type of competition that is played during the S15. There schedule is organised in blocks. In other words you would have certain blocks when the domestic competitions like the EPS is played and then there are weekends set aside for the Heineken cup. In other words the same players who are available for the domestic competitons like the English Premiership are also available for the Heineken Cup which can be compared to the S15. For that to be achieved in the SH, or SA for that matter, you would have to be able to play all the S15 players in their respective CC teams as well.

Thing is that the English clubs do not suffer the same setbacks during the times that the Six nations is played as the top SA teams suffer when we have the Rugby Championship going, because the National side comes from a bigger number of clubs and not like in SA from mostly three Unions. The national players are all from mostly the Blue Bulls, WP and the Sharks with a few Freestaters etc thrown in. The England first tier competition is played amongst 12 teams as opposed to the 6 in the CC Premier Division. The spread of the current England squad is as follows;

Bath 6

Exeter 1

Gloucester 3

Harlequins 4

Leicester Tigers 8

London Irish 2

Wasps 2

Northampton 6

Saracens 6

Now, if you take Saracens, for instance, during the six nations they still have the rest of their English players as well as the likes of Ernst Joubert, Schalk Britz, Justin Melck, Allister Hargreaves, Jacques Burger, etc available. The rest of the Premiership clubs are more or less in the same boat. Siants still have the likes of Tonga'uiha, Mujati (at this stage), Gerrit-Jan van Veldze, etc as well as the rest of their English players. I do not believe that the winners of the CC would walk over the winners of the Aviva Premiership.

Do you think that this side:

DHL WP – 15 Gio Aplon, 14 Gerhard van den Heever, 13 Juan de Jongh, 12 Damian de Allende, 11 Bryan Habana, 10 Demetri Catrakilis, 9 Nic Groom, 8 Duane Vermeulen, 7 Don Armand, 6 Deon Fourie (c), 5 De Kock Steenkamp, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Frans Malherbe, 2 Scarra Ntubeni, 1 Steven Kitshoff.

Replacements: 16 Deon Carstens, 17 Brok Harris, 18 Wilhelm van der Sluys, 19 Jebb Sinclair, 20 Louis Schreuder, 21 Marcel Brache, 22 Joe Pietersen.

would have walked over this side?

I can also see clearly that you are dodging my very salient point.  Mujati was playing his Bok rugby whilst a Stormer.

To quote you:

What is true is that when he arrived at Northampton he was in a very poor state of fitness and conditioning after his spell at the WP/Stormers.

  And

I would go as far as saying that his move to the Cape, at the time, was a step backwards, because he was playing some great rugby with the Lions.

Clearly then he was not up to it when playing  for the stormers yet he played 12 matches for the Boks!!! It smacks of it being a quota selection story - one of a number.

Time to admit it windpomp as the hole is getting deeper.

I am NOT refering to him being a quota Stormers player windpomp but a quota Bok. Read my posts carefully. Once again I put it to you - if he was not playing well for the Stormers how come he got all those 12 caps for the Boks. I suggest yet again windpomp he was a quota selection.

Hahahahahahahhaha come on windpomp just admit you hve been caught out here. Because windpomp once you admit he was a quota selection for the Boks whilst playing for the Stormers and going downhill all the time the call up of Jannie makes complete sense.

Ou Muj going off in a huff and being all indignant about not playing is a joke. He surely knew he was a quota selection - otherwise he had no self appraisal going on. He also knew there were quota selections going on and had to be mindful he may have been one of them. Hahahahahahahha

Lets just say once again that familiar refrain - game set and match to Beeno!

from what i heard in the rumour mill rassie is busy trying to lure him back...lets hope he does so...we can really make use of his skillset in SA

You may be interested to know windpomp that abolute proof about anything is hard to come by. Prof John Lenox says its only really in the field of pure mathematics that absolue proof may be found.

For the rest one talks really about weight of evidence.

Here the weight of evidence says clearly enough that Muj was playing poorly fo the Stormers (An assessment you appear to agee with)  but was being selected for the Boks at the same time!!! The only logical conclusion is he was a quota selection for the Boks. The rest follows logically and hence there can be no surpirse when jannie got the nod etc.

Game set and match as I said.

Muj the victim. Bwahahhahahahaha man he was launched by SA rugby, got promoted to the Boks on skin colour, found out (if he really didnt know it) he was a quota player and shoved to the UK to earn bigger bucs rather than backing himself to earn a Bok spot on merit. Remeber once his play was up to scratch he did get offered a spot and remember also that the current incumbent Bok loosehead is Beast who has never been a quota selection.

Lastly who here believes Muj and co will return the farm they stole. Why shoudl we cry rivers about this foreigner. Cant think of a single reason. 

If Rassie does get him back he must only be selected on merit.  Had merit been applied from the begining we would not be discussing this.

End of story