New Squad players....with a chance to be long term Boks

Mozart

Easy answer - Alberts - who have done squat last year and Spies who have done equally near to zero last year and same in Super 15 - should not have been anywhere near the team.  Meyer has weird ideas and because of the abovve selections he could only accommodate one of Botha or Labuschagne - so he chose Labuschagne.

The problm with you is that you do not understand any rugby - leave alone test rugby.  You think like Meyer does and that means another disastrous record in the test this year is in the offing.   

Mozart

I did not ever recommend or support the picking of Duds like you do.  Those duds include farces like De Jongh, Van der Linde, Steenkamp, and now Spies and Alberts.   Now that list include some injured players and your comments on Du Toit are sick.

Habana had a horrible Super 15 - if anybody disputes that he is nuts.   I never picked Jordaan at 13 - but said if he produces the goods in Super 15 this year - he can be a candidate.   He did not and that is where the story ends.  Besides that he is injured - and before injury had a miss tackle ratio of 6% missed tackles against your hero De Jongh's 30%.  And you think De Jongh is to be considered for selection - what a useless player.

Lets see how it goes this year.   However, I am not ovrly optimistic since Meyer - like you - is clueless. 

 Habana is playing in the worst backline in the Super 15... Plus why has he been selected in the team of the week or been 'bubbling under'? Did you not watch the Stormers vs Reds game, cause he was playing brilliantly, he's a true competitor of the ball! No Mike, you're nuts.

Shezza

With respect - one incident in one of the games cannot be reflective of what he did the rest of Super 15.   In almost all the gameshe played in statistically Habana was way below par and made a number of really aful mistakes that cost his team dearly.   His performance was way below what is expected from a senior international player - and that is a fact one or two flash-in-the- pan incidents will not sret right.   In dealing with performance you have to look at all games he played in and what he achieve in all those games - not only at one game. 

All-in-all he had a nightmare season and thatis a fact of life.

Nice try at the psaaik Maaik, but no, your facts are all wrong. I don't think de Jongh is the answer at 13, I repeat, I think he is just below test class......but can be a worthy sub if needed. And no, I have been anti Spies for years. And no I have never been a huge CJ or Steenkamp fan, ask Dave......but given the choice last  November between a rookie and an experienced Bok, with NH credentials, any sane fan would take experience.

And my comments on Steph are not sick.....they are relevant. This huge kid has just stopped growing, and obviously needs some caution in these formative years.....but he has been thrown in at the deep end. The kamikaze style of all out effort at that age was almost bound to get him hurt, which you will admit, I predicted. Last year was just careless, this year it was criminal. It appears he has been playing with a sternum injury for a while. Outrageous!

 As for your comments on Habana....what utter balls. This guy is a world superstar, but he gives 100 per cent every game. He is still great value.

Mozart

I really am amazed  - one would have thought youe enthusiastic support for the selection last year of De Jongh, Steenkamp and Van der Linde was nothing less than raving value - now suddenly a melt-down after they failed.

Now let me explain something about Habana - He had a tripe 2013 Super 15 and is all-round one of the lowest rated wings in Super 15.    I do think that  the Foxsport and Test Rugby ratings of Habana showed how really sub-standard his performances were this year:-

Foxsport    -      113 points   -  that puts him 40th on the list of ouside backs  playing in Super 15

Test Rugby  -    Average 171 points per game - by far the lowest average of any international wing playing in Super 15

The above reflects accurately what he really has achieved this year in Super 15.   He may yet come right on test level - I do support his selection and has always had him in my recommended squad - but if anybodys said he made hay in Super 15 this year - that one has to have eye and brain surgery.  

Ou maaaikie as has been pointed out nobody shines in the poorly coached Stormer backline headed by former Bok backline coach Allistair. They simply play as inividuals too much. Habana suffers from this.

As for Arno my guess is he is around 109 kg.The small flankers around the 100 kg mark struggle apart from Deon Fourie who is very strong. Hence the failure of Kolisi to make an impact, wee daniel fading away and never making it in a game against a tough pack (Could have made a world class scrummie if anybody had had half an operating brain cell!!!). Wee brussouw is playing better but Meyer knows Louw is he guy we need. Isnt it nice to have a coach whose takes a largely sensible approach.?

Ou maaaikie yousaid Meyer would not pick Willie but there he is at 15. You keep makig wrong statement aot meyer thencarry on as i fnothinghas happened. Meyer is a number of steps ahead of you and ou snapste! Hhahahahahahahaha - he understands the nuances and more sophisticated considerations.

Moz as far as I can see Labuschagne is more physical by some way that the ab show pony kieran bent reid. Given a strong pack he could add some linking flair. He will get a chance.

Actually, I was referring to Jacques Engelbrecht ... of the Kings ... he plays wears the 8 jersey at times .. JJ.

No matter.

Selecting JJ outside Jean was a bit of a surprise. As you mentioned, Mozart, JJ has suddenly come into his own since Serfontein was brought in at 12. Question is, will he continue his positive play with Jean on his inside?? Against better oposition I doubt it. Against Italy ... well we'll see. Jean isn't known for getting his outside man on the front foot. We've seen the Bok backline struggle for many a year with Jean at 12 and the Stormers aren't exactly lighting the world on fire with their backline play.

Regarding test rugby ... as tempting as it may be ... selecting an entire team of newbies at test level is a tad foolish. No matter how much talent they all may have shown at super rugby level.

It's a whole different ball game. The pressure is different, the pace is different, stepping up to that level isn't as simple as it seems.

Some players may hit the ground running but most need to be managed properly ... be blooded slowly ... brought in with senior, experienced campaigners and not just dropped in the deep end.

It doesn't work like that. Never has. Not unless one's looking for a drubbing or possibly even destroying the player.

Also, dropping guys like Habana just cause he hasn't had the best of seasons (in a struggling team) this year is also not how it's done.   Actually ... the thought of it is darn right ridiculous.

I think it best he be left wearing the Bok 11 jersey ... and ... if JP Petersen was fit he would have returned to his rightful spot at 14. .

Same goes for Alberts and Flo.

With Alberts and Flo at 6 and 7 I would have been very tempted to bring a newby like Englebrecht in at 8. He would have been introduced to test rugby the right way, at the right time, especially against Italy.

I guess Meyer thought differently.

Beeno

I agree with you - most of Habana's problems this year stemmed from -

*   poor backkline coaching; and

*  having to play outside the pair of Jantjies and De Jongh.

That is why I constantly supported his selection to the Springbok team.

Cleancut

I have watched carefully the performances of Engelbrecht as a loosie.  I liked what I saw - but am not certain he is test level at thisstage of his career.   Maybe wrong - but thatt he is a very good loosie is an absolute certainty.

Engelbrecht has done every well in a loosing side and is definitely one to keep an eye on.

I thought Van der walt faded a bit agains thte bulle. Cheetha enrgy was down a bit thatgamea sa whol ealthough they fired in the last 20 minutes.

However with Arno. Van der Walt, Vermuelen and Engelbrecht we have some options and Spiesies days could be numbered. That new analyst Chean Roux will pick up on what value Spiesies is adding. To me he is not cutting it. The only hope for him is a new role where he tries to link up more with the backline and leaves the hard forward work to the real forwards. ie he plays more like wee kieran reid.