Normally at this time of year….

….we would be watching the Stormers playing the Highlanders or some such contest. What a loss, all because the suits never understood what they had in the old Super 12 and got greedy. And then we convinced ourselves our best options were up north.

But the negatives are just starting….without playing NZ backlines except in tests our comfort level competing with them is going to drop back to 1994 levels. And we are also going to lose more players to British clubs, not having Super 12 form as the benchmark for Bok selection.

Absolutely asinine and if we wanted to handicap ourselves we have succeeded. 

They kicked us out.

European Rugby Champions Cup...just a matter of time...

Stav, we obviously need a bit of time, but we'll see how your top teams tour here...our top 4 teams are much better than the Kings and the Cheetahs...

I've no doubt you will be more competitive at home and over the course of the season several of your times will rise up the table.

As for the top teams, which I would argue are the 4 Irish teams and then behind them 2 Scottish teams. 

Leinster absolutely spanked the Bulls at the start of the year, yes it was a home game for Leinster, but the Bulls where actually closer to full strength than Leinster where and Leinster won that game in second gear. They really have the fire in the belly this season after they had to forfeit a Champions cup game to Montpellier due to Covid but then went out and subsequently battered Montpellier and Bath. 

Connacht the weakest Irish team put them to the sword as well. (lol at Jake White's their a small club comment" yes Jake they are small club with twice the operating budget of the Bulls)

As for playing in South Africa it really depends on what strength teams the Irish send down. But say it was a Champions Cup match in SA and full strength teams where sent down, I'd put money on Leinster, Ulster and Munster beating any SA franchise team. They just have stronger teams. Less confident in Connacht but they would be competitive (After all they ran the English league leaders extremely close in both home and away matches in the Champions Cup).

I do believe South African teams will become more competitive within a few seasons, but if some people believe the URC is a weaker league that's unworthy of South African teams then really the SA teams should be winning the URC at a canter.

You must remember we came off a very low base. We normally lose a lot of players after a RWC, but then we play a lot of local rugby to blood new players for Super Rugby. None of that happened...our sports were canceled for almost the whole 2020 and our matches last year were very limited...we'll get there sooner than later, but this repeated local derbies are way too one dimensional for us to progress...we need to play you guys more regularly...this season is already lobsided.

Yeah its unfortunate about the stop start nature of the season, makes things difficult to gauge. Hopefully next season will see no more Covid interruptions.

The point is if Super Rugby was still the gateway to Bok selection,  many of our players overseas would be in our Super teams making them far stronger than our  teams playing up north right now.

My guess is the Saders would put all the European teams to the sword….that’s the level we should be playing at.

Nope...players started leaving regardless of that....the money up North just became too good...Eben, Duane, etc. They left while that was still the rule...if Rassie didn't change things, we would have played the WC without most of our best players.

PS, Jake se bek was nog altyd te groot.

Nobody is arguing money isn’t a big motivator for players leaving or that we shouldn’t  choose our best players. But a successful smaller tournament like the Super 12 should have created larger pay checks for those who made the teams, retaining more if not all players.All the SH national teams would have benefitted.

As for competing up north it’s a long, long way short of Super Rugby as a way to blood players, develop familiarity, develop a style of playing that’s understood and provide experience playing our only real rival.

So far it looks like a poor outcome.

It is what it is...maybe we'll have something similair in a few years, but you can't have a partnership on uneaven footing...they'll come back to the table soon ...where would you rather be, playing the Celts or the Convicts?

Not playing each other at Super rugby is hurting both of us, I agree with Moz bring back the Super 12. Even if we alternate in between SA then in Aussie & NZ to cut down the travel. It would even the playing field up as well. A year without any home games would be a massive hurdle though for the local franchises. 

Perhaps the problem is that no one wants to go to South Africa at the moment.

The teams in Europe want to stay in Europe

And the teams in Australasia want to stay down under.

The travel distance for both is becoming a hinderance and perhaps South Africa fit in neither of those regions.

I don't know about the Crusaders this year but I'd back Leinster to beat any franchise anywhere they wanted to play. Hell, Leinster could beat some of the National sides in the Six Nations and Rugby Championship. Looking at you Italy.

I know the Crusaders are meant to be an excellent team but I haven't actually seen them play to know how they compare with top northern club teams but I suspect it would be very competitive between them.

Jaguares aren't playing anywhere at the moment. I understand they where looking to join the URC and be based in Spain but so far nothing has come of it.